Should England play France as preparation for the series against Australia?

[JohnM]

The question posed by the OP is this. 

Should England play France as preparation for the series against Australia?

My answr is no. I do not see how such a game would constitute preparation. The risk of injury would be real, and the game itself would be nothing more than a demonstration, non-competitive game.. 

Have the game by all means as an excuse to have a stand alone Anglo French carnival but don't pretend that it will in any way prepare us for the games to come. 

I'm a strong advocate of the international game but just one game will achieve nothing in terms of prep. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

They play rl in Tonga. 

They play RL in Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

[Eddie]

26 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

They play RL in Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Seriously, do you think that’s a reasonable comparison? 

[ghost crayfish]

It's not purely about preparing for the ashes, it's about whether or not England should play France. Of course the answer is yes! France is the strongest neighbour England has, and they have it in them to put together a 17 of mostly good Superleague talent, including multiple Grand Final and Cup winners. They have to play annual test matches. To do it before the Ashes makes perfect sense, particularly when looking at the obvious benefits of giving England a run out in proper match conditions, in front of a crowd, under their new coach, before playing Australia.

[Number 16]

England should lock-in a mid-season test in France for the next three years minimum. Years 4 & 5 should expand to home and away, mid and post season. 

Fans should be encouraged to travel. Bring a wall of white. Create a positive vibe around the games. 

The need is fourfold :

- give France a clear pathway to improvement. To encourage the game in France to pull in the same direction. 

- a France team at, or close to, its strongest against England minus its NRL contingent has the potential to be really competitive. 

- travelling and playing is an experience that cannot be simulated in a training camp sited a couple of dozen miles from a player's House! 

- International footie is the way forward. It can give a sport the traction that the club game cannot. 

 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Seriously, do you think that’s a reasonable comparison? 

I'm just highlighting the inconsistency in your argument.

16 hours ago, Eddie said:

France yes, but what is the point of playing Wales or Ireland, with a few notable exceptions they’re just made up of heartlands players with welsh/Irish grandparents. I’d rather see England play countries that are developing their own players. 

Last year's Tongan squad only contained Konrad Hurrell who was born in Tonga, and he moved to NZ as a teenager to play RU. The rest were all born in Aus or NZ.

14 hours ago, Eddie said:

It does but without significant youth systems in those countries what is the point, they’re never going to produce many players and will people from those countries even be interested if it’s just a load of Englishmen playing for them?

Can you define what the significant youth systems are in Tonga compared to Ireland, Scotland and Wales? How many professional players have been produced by these respective systems?

In terms of interest, the last 4 Nations game between Eng and Scotland achieved higher peak viewing figures than when Eng played Aus, and higher avge figures than when Eng played NZ.

14 hours ago, Eddie said:

I would love to see the game grow in Wales, Scotland and Ireland, but I just don’t know what value their current international set ups have. Wales are possibly the exception as they do at least have a few Welsh players like Regan Grace. 

There are far more Welsh-born players in the Welsh squad than there are Tongan-born players in the Tongan squad, so if this is your argument shouldn't we be playing Wales before we play Tonga?

If the real reason you don't want Eng to play Wales, Scotland and Ireland is because they're not very good, then that's fine, but it's a completely separate argument.

I have no problem with heritage players making up the bulk of several international squads. Without it, we'd still have a 5-team World Cup. However, if you're going to bag Ireland, Scotland and Wales for a lack of home-grown players then the same argument should be applied to the likes of Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, Lebanon and arguably Fiji.

 

 

[Eddie]

18 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I'm just highlighting the inconsistency in your argument.

Last year's Tongan squad only contained Konrad Hurrell who was born in Tonga, and he moved to NZ as a teenager to play RU. The rest were all born in Aus or NZ.

Can you define what the significant youth systems are in Tonga compared to Ireland, Scotland and Wales? How many professional players have been produced by these respective systems?

In terms of interest, the last 4 Nations game between Eng and Scotland achieved higher peak viewing figures than when Eng played Aus, and higher avge figures than when Eng played NZ.

There are far more Welsh-born players in the Welsh squad than there are Tongan-born players in the Tongan squad, so if this is your argument shouldn't we be playing Wales before we play Tonga?

If the real reason you don't want Eng to play Wales, Scotland and Ireland is because they're not very good, then that's fine, but it's a completely separate argument.

I have no problem with heritage players making up the bulk of several international squads. Without it, we'd still have a 5-team World Cup. However, if you're going to bag Ireland, Scotland and Wales for a lack of home-grown players then the same argument should be applied to the likes of Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, Lebanon and arguably Fiji.

 

 

Sorry no, there are now domestic competitions and development in the Pacific Islands, the current international team don’t have players born there but future teams will. The same doesn’t apply to Ireland and Scotland, and not much to Wales. 

[Allora]

England doesn't want to play France because they are not good enough?

Thank god Australia is coming to England this year, and persevered with NZ for many years.

 

 

[meast]

I'd rather they look to play a competitive team if there's to be a warm up game.

Maybe a GB Knights team made up of the best Irish, Scottish, Welsh and England Knights players?

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

32 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Sorry no, there are now domestic competitions and development in the Pacific Islands, the current international team don’t have players born there but future teams will. The same doesn’t apply to Ireland and Scotland, and not much to Wales. 

I'm afraid you are incorrect - there are domestic competitions and development in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Can you clarify how these competitions and development differ from that going on in Tonga, in terms of numbers of teams, players, growth etc etc? It's ok to say that you don't know, if you don't know.

[jim_57]

47 minutes ago, Allora said:

England doesn't want to play France because they are not good enough?

Thank god Australia is coming to England this year, and persevered with NZ for many years.

England are coming off 2 straight losses to tier 2 opponents. Whilst France might not be as strong a Tonga or PNG I don't think England are as strong as they and their fans believe themselves to be. England have a new coach and 1 year out from a home world cup they should be desperate for games, they should be playing 5-6 tests this year yet I wouldn't be surprised if we see 3, maybe 4.

[dhw]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Sorry no, there are now domestic competitions and development in the Pacific Islands, the current international team don’t have players born there but future teams will. The same doesn’t apply to Ireland and Scotland, and not much to Wales. 

It seems you can predict the future with such accuracy. The above was stated 15 years ago, not much has changed in terms of representation, it is not clear what has changed so dramatically for this to change. Wales and Ireland have locally born and  trained players in their national squads. Scotland is the process of resurrecting the Scotland A team based around local players, they also have two national youth teams. All of them are more advanced than what is going on in Tonga.  

[Hela Wigmen]

53 minutes ago, meast said:

I'd rather they look to play a competitive team if there's to be a warm up game.

Maybe a GB Knights team made up of the best Irish, Scottish, Welsh and England Knights players?

I’d be interested to know who’s make your “GB Knights” squad. 

[dhw]

4 minutes ago, jim_57 said:

England are coming off 2 straight losses to tier 2 opponents. Whilst France might not be as strong a Tonga or PNG I don't think England are as strong as they and their fans believe themselves to be. England have a new coach and 1 year out from a home world cup they should be desperate for games, they should be playing 5-6 tests this year yet I wouldn't be surprised if we see 3, maybe 4.

Sorry to be pedantIc but that was GB. I am not sure how Tonga are tier 2, you can argue the same applies to PNG. Domestically France are much stronger than PNG and Tonga.

[meast]

12 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’d be interested to know who’s make your “GB Knights” squad. 

From Scotland- Coote, McLelland, Wardle, Addy, Brierley,  Douglas, Hellewell, Adam Walker, Alex Walker

From Wales- Grace, Rhys Williams, Kear, Kopczak, Dudson, Knowles, Fozard, Fleming, Flower

Ireland- Keyes, Byrne, Ryan, McCarthy, Roberts, Bentley, King.

Others as well who could be picked I'm sure?

[Hela Wigmen]

5 minutes ago, meast said:

From Scotland- Coote, McLelland, Wardle, Addy, Brierley,  Douglas, Hellewell, Adam Walker, Alex Walker

From Wales- Grace, Rhys Williams, Kear, Kopczak, Dudson, Knowles, Fozard, Fleming, Flower

Ireland- Keyes, Byrne, Ryan, McCarthy, Roberts, Bentley, King.

Others as well who could be picked I'm sure?

The Knights would annihilate them, let alone the proper team.   

[Shadow]

Two different questions.

Should England play France? Yes, twice every year on a home and away basis.

Should England play France as prep for Australia? No. If you want a tough lead in to the Aus test then France (with all due respect to the French) are not going to be it. If you want an opposed training session then have a Probables against Possibles game. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I'm afraid you are incorrect - there are domestic competitions and development in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Can you clarify how these competitions and development differ from that going on in Tonga, in terms of numbers of teams, players, growth etc etc? It's ok to say that you don't know, if you don't know.

I could look it up. No doubt you can tell me though?

[jim_57]

1 hour ago, dhw said:

Sorry to be pedantIc but that was GB. I am not sure how Tonga are tier 2, you can argue the same applies to PNG. Domestically France are much stronger than PNG and Tonga.

It was England for the sake the gameday 17, England coach as well.

They are tier 2 under the eligibility rules, playing standard obviously they're up there with the best now. PNG only had a small handful of NRL players the rest were Hunters or lower league players and they convincingly beat Great Britain.

I'm not so sure about France being stronger than PNG domestically either, but both should be looked after a bit more as 2 nations that can bring in a crowd and produce players. NZ are taking it on themselves to play a test in PNG this year when they don't have to, England should be playing European nations as well, at the very least France.

[jim_57]

24 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The Knights would annihilate them, let alone the proper team.   

If we compare results from Knights V PNG in 2018 and Great Britain (England) V PNG in 2019 the Knights would annihilate England..

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I'm just highlighting the inconsistency in your argument.

Last year's Tongan squad only contained Konrad Hurrell who was born in Tonga, and he moved to NZ as a teenager to play RU. The rest were all born in Aus or NZ.

Can you define what the significant youth systems are in Tonga compared to Ireland, Scotland and Wales? How many professional players have been produced by these respective systems?

In terms of interest, the last 4 Nations game between Eng and Scotland achieved higher peak viewing figures than when Eng played Aus, and higher avge figures than when Eng played NZ.

There are far more Welsh-born players in the Welsh squad than there are Tongan-born players in the Tongan squad, so if this is your argument shouldn't we be playing Wales before we play Tonga?

If the real reason you don't want Eng to play Wales, Scotland and Ireland is because they're not very good, then that's fine, but it's a completely separate argument.

I have no problem with heritage players making up the bulk of several international squads. Without it, we'd still have a 5-team World Cup. However, if you're going to bag Ireland, Scotland and Wales for a lack of home-grown players then the same argument should be applied to the likes of Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, Lebanon and arguably Fiji.

 

 

And don't leave out Greece, Italy and Jamaica do these teams have any home - grown player's at all?

Like it or not the WC is virtually an extension of the Australian Leagues system, with a few more players thrown in for good measure, that is reality.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

I could look it up. No doubt you can tell me though?

If you don't know, then why have you come on a forum claiming that Tonga's local player development systems are better than those of Ireland, Scotland and Wales when you have zero evidence to back it up?

[Eddie]

17 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

If you don't know, then why have you come on a forum claiming that Tonga's local player development systems are better than those of Ireland, Scotland and Wales when you have zero evidence to back it up?

Why are you saying they aren’t as good if you don’t know?

Anyway having listened to every episode of chasing kangaroos for the last two years I know there is stuff going on there, National club competitions etc, whereas in Scotland and Ireland there is very little. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

37 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why are you saying they aren’t as good if you don’t know?

I haven't. I've merely asked you to provide evidence that they were significantly better than those systems in the home nations. You haven't been able to provide any evidence, and therefore haven't been able to convince me that your argument isn't flawed and contradictory.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I haven't. I've merely asked you to provide evidence that they were significantly better than those systems in the home nations. You haven't been able to provide any evidence, and therefore haven't been able to convince me that your argument isn't flawed and contradictory.

Sigh. Here you go then, do you think this is better than the domestic set ups in Scotland and Ireland or not?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongan_National_Rugby_League