Can Canada be decent in 10 years?

[langpark]

With a pro and semi-pro team in Canada, can we realistically expect that in 10 years time they might have a dozen homegrown semi-pro (or even pro) players?  So that we could have another solid tier 2 nation in our ranks?

If France is anything to go by, the presence of Catalans and Toulouse in the English system has done little to improve the standard of the national team.  I would hope though that Canada will improve greatly and soon start producing some quality players of their own.  In time for WC 2029 would be great.

[Number 16]

I'm not sure that France's issues are due to a lack of decent players, it's more organisational and finance issues amongst others. 

Regarding Canadian development, I've never been quite sure what TWP intentions are with this. They need to take the lead working alongside Ottawa and the national body. 

I see no reason why they can't produce a competitive squad by 2029 if the collective will is there. 

[langpark]

Yes but my point is that French players now have a direct pathway to the highest level of Rugby League, as do Canadian players (in theory).  But the question is, do any benefit from it.  Time will tell I suppose, but it seems the French have not improved much as a result. (I know there are other factors in play of course).

[Themusician_2]

Nope in 10 years time they'll be in the same spot. because grassroots is being ignored. RL don't have 16-19 year old Canadians coming though systems. 

[frank]

Much of it depends on SL.The way they made it difficult for the Pack and others following could hold back development in Canada.Union would have accepted these teams immeadiately.These Canadian teams are at no cost to SL.

[frank]

20 hours ago, langpark said:

Yes but my point is that French players now have a direct pathway to the highest level of Rugby League, as do Canadian players (in theory).  But the question is, do any benefit from it.  Time will tell I suppose, but it seems the French have not improved much as a result. (I know there are other factors in play of course).

Most probably the reason for lack of improvement is both French clubs are stacked with Aussies and English guys.

[RayCee]

I think ten years there would be some gain, but to get quality in depth would happen beyond that time frame, provided the work and money is put into it.

[silverback]

in order to get quality in depth you first need at least and handfull of homegrown players, it would be so much better if we could see some youth coming thru,but up to now nothing in 3 years,hope things change in next 10 years as i would love to see a real canadian squad pushing saints and cas about for 80 minutes.TWP seem to get a lot a things right so am sure they will solve this.

[langpark]

18 hours ago, frank said:

Most probably the reason for lack of improvement is both French clubs are stacked with Aussies and English guys.

Correct, but unfortunately, it's looking like these Canadian teams will do the exact same thing.

[Marauder]

I suppose the only yard stick we have is when you compare amateur teams that play outside the heartlands v heartlands teams, they play the game the same but the main difference is the weekly standard players are exposed to.

[nadera78]

Taking London as a guide, and I've been watching the Broncos since 1994, I'd say the following:

From the moment you start taking development seriously you can actually bring through the odd player quite quickly - a winger or two, a prop, that sort of thing - but they will always have a limited ceiling simply because of their lack of experience. But to reach the point where you are bringing through a consistent number of SL quality players, in all positions, every season, it take 10 years. The big difference is having that intuitive understanding of the game and your role, rather than taking a second to assess whats happening in front of you. That knowledge can't be rushed, it takes years of playing as a youngster to build up.

Looking at Canada from the outside, I think that 10 years from now they will have a decent-ish team. Able to qualify regularly for RLWC, etc. But to go beyond that will take another 5-10 years.

[langpark]

I really believe it's a numbers game.  I also believe that per 100 players, you are bound to get 1 that can cut it at semi-pro level.  So, if each Toronto and Ottawa can now start planting amateur and junior teams in their cities, then within 10 years, it could be a realistic goal to have a dozen or so local Canadians playing at League One level.

[kiwis 13 6]

In every team there is usually at least one player who could be Semi pro or Pro, that is a ratio of 1 out of 25. But in countries with developing playing standards like Canada, maybe double that 1 out of 50 could be a semi pro/pro. But players get injured or can lose interest after teenage years so perhaps 1 out of 100 Juniors in a developing country like Canada could be semi pro/ pro. But who really knows its all guesswork and maybe a good development program could make almost anyone with the necessary physical talent, a desire to learn and a passion for the sport into a Semi pro or Pro player.   

[Oldbear]

One advantage we have in Canada is our high school system encourages achievement in sports, so we produce large numbers of talented teenage athletes. Of course the vast majority go on to either university (athletic scholarships in gridiron football, hockey, basketball, soccer and baseball) or they go to junior hockey clubs. Despite this a large number are just lost to sport and even more are lost at the age of 22-23 when they graduate from university 

The challenge for Rugby League is to have the framework which identifies these kids at say age 13-17, along with a system to pick up the college graduates, many of whom have basically been semi pro athletes and then develop them into rugby players, passing the best on to the pro clubs. The challenge is really is whether the 2 pro clubs and Canada RL can and are willing to do this.

Oh and if anyone questions my comment about university athletes being basically semi pros I can evidence my own 2 sons, both university athletes (one gridiron, one RU) and they typically have field practice of 2 hrs per day, 4 days per week, plus strength & conditioning 5 hrs per week, plus film study and team meetings 6 hrs per week, that’s not unusual.

 

 

 

[nadera78]

2 hours ago, Oldbear said:

One advantage we have in Canada is our high school system encourages achievement in sports, so we produce large numbers of talented teenage athletes. Of course the vast majority go on to either university (athletic scholarships in gridiron football, hockey, basketball, soccer and baseball) or they go to junior hockey clubs. Despite this a large number are just lost to sport and even more are lost at the age of 22-23 when they graduate from university 

The challenge for Rugby League is to have the framework which identifies these kids at say age 13-17, along with a system to pick up the college graduates, many of whom have basically been semi pro athletes and then develop them into rugby players, passing the best on to the pro clubs. The challenge is really is whether the 2 pro clubs and Canada RL can and are willing to do this.

Oh and if anyone questions my comment about university athletes being basically semi pros I can evidence my own 2 sons, both university athletes (one gridiron, one RU) and they typically have field practice of 2 hrs per day, 4 days per week, plus strength & conditioning 5 hrs per week, plus film study and team meetings 6 hrs per week, that’s not unusual.

 

 

 

Yeah, even if these types of kids are only plying a limited amount of RL at these ages, alongside their other sports, that would obviously aid their transition later on. But you'd also hope some of them would see it as their main game.

Although I did read an article a while back about young hockey players only playing that one sport (because of the demands being placed on them and the desire to 'make it') and being criticised for it by coaches at higher levels because it impacts their all-round development and they think many of them are one dimensional because of it.

[DiddyDave]

On 14/03/2020 at 08:40, Themusician_2 said:

Nope in 10 years time they'll be in the same spot. because grassroots is being ignored. RL don't have 16-19 year old Canadians coming though systems. 

Exactly mate.

[Oldbear]

On 13/03/2020 at 14:40, Themusician_2 said:

Nope in 10 years time they'll be in the same spot. because grassroots is being ignored. RL don't have 16-19 year old Canadians coming though systems. 

But they could, if there were a system to identify talent at that age group. The problem is that Canada RL has no money to employ both talent scouts and development officers so the onus falls on the pro clubs, Toronto appears to show little desire to, we don’t know what Ottawa’s plans are.

[bbfaz]

Probably not.  It's not impossible for Canada to become good but the Wolfpack and the Aces need to become serious catalysts in the growth of the game.  Canada got left behind in basketball but a decent amount of Canadians have become good college basketball and NBA players in recent years.  The Toronto area has become a hotbed in particular due to the Raptors and Vince Carter becoming an icon for them.  85% of the good prospects in recent years have come from the Golden Horseshoe, about 10% from Montreal and 5% from Vancouver.  That's with a team that became a mainstream big deal in its biggest city, a star who went mainstream and a sport/league which is one of the richest and exposed in the world.

And they're still not making headway, even with those advantages.  They'll likely miss out on the Olympics.  I know Rugby League is a smaller sport, the bar isn't as high etc. but when you play Australia, you're playing the equivalent of the NFL for the East Coast of Australia.  It's the best athletes with the best coordination.  That is something that takes generations to bridge, not 20 years, especially when you have no resources and are working with castoffs.

[2blackrooks]

So since the disappointment of SL kicking Toronto out, Ottawa deferring to 2022?? & Canada struggling in the  World cup qualifiers, what's the state of play with RL in Canada and is there a plan to move forward?

[PhilCarrington]

With all those balls in hands that Argylle assured us was happening over the last 4 years, there should be lots of progress made at grass roots. 

[JM2010]

Unfortunately not. For that to happen there needs to be a lot of children between the ages of 10 - 15 playing regular games in organised structures with development pathways in place. I might be wrong but I dont think this is happening in Canada

[langpark]

3 hours ago, JM2010 said:

Unfortunately not. For that to happen there needs to be a lot of children between the ages of 10 - 15 playing regular games in organised structures with development pathways in place. I might be wrong but I dont think this is happening in Canada

Agreed. The thread was made nearly a year ago and it was assuming they would have two pro teams and some decent development pathways in place.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, JM2010 said:

Unfortunately not. For that to happen there needs to be a lot of children between the ages of 10 - 15 playing regular games in organised structures with development pathways in place. I might be wrong but I dont think this is happening in Canada

 

14 minutes ago, langpark said:

Agreed. The thread was made nearly a year ago and it was assuming they would have two pro teams and some decent development pathways in place.

Is there any evidence of the Wolfpack`s owners doing anything to establish what`s described above? My impression is that they regarded RU as their grass roots. As such they were meticulously following the historical approach taken by the owners of Northern English RL clubs.

[Oxford]

Can Canada be decent in 10 years? Is not the question

 

The question is why would Canada want to be involved in a sport that has rejected in such a wonderful way?

[The Lad]

It's not about having professional or Semi-professional teams, it's about having players coming up through the ranks and youth system which I don't think Canada has, whether its France or Canada having a top team means nothing if money or talent isn't coming through. Ten years is a long time and Canada can grow but i don't think it will be second tier.