13 team super league?

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

We can put in place the plans and actions to control what we can control (the structure, our aims, objectives, overall direction etc) and respond to the things that we can't.

Let me have a guess at your Agenda 

1. No money to clubs below SL level

2. P&R Abolished never to see the light of day again.

3. Franchised/Licensed SL

4. 14 team SL, with London, Ottawa and Tolouse fastracked immediately.

5. Either Salford or Wakefield to make room by being excluded from SL

6. Any future new teams wishing to join the SL, will have to be located off shore UK

How's that for starters?

I am sure you have loads of ideas of how the list should be populated, just as a game and a bit of fun to while away the hours lets imagine for a moment you are Robert Elstone and you are making your presentation to SKY for the next TV contract, what do you suggest:-

You can put in place the plans and actions to control what we can control the structure, our aims, objectives, overall direction etc.

 

[GUBRATS]

Batten down the hatches , reduce everything , everybody gets through on the bare minimum , be that players owners coaching staff and fans , when we get a glimpse of an end , then look at where we are and make plans , there will be time to do it , nobody is going to just suddenly say " it's over tomorrow " 

Anything else is just pie in the sky dreaming 

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

1. No

2/3. yes

4. no. 

5. no. 

6. No.

Elstone's presentation to Sky should be simple. 6 games per week, 1 thursday, 1 friday, 3 saturday, 1 Sunday. Two 'overseas slots' Les Catalans at 5:30 Saturday home and away, Toronto at 8pm home and away. 

If we had a bit of money to put in to it. I'd buy the rights to the championship, L1 for the £5m a year they currently get from SL, buy the NRL rights, sell the thursday and friday games as one package. the rest bundled in to an 'RL channel' that can be bought wholesale like Sky Sports Cricket etc, and can be subscribed directly as an add on package or streaming package

 

Thank you.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is Bradford a full time team?

They've definitely got a number of FT players and run an academy. I'd say that makes them more full time than most. 

[Hela Wigmen]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is Bradford a full time team?

No. We have fourteen full time clubs, a couple of “hybrid” ones (whatever the definition for that is) and everyone else is part time. 

[Tommygilf]

28 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Doing nothing for an indeterminate amount of time and hoping the government bails us out is in no way proactive. 

Its giving up control because it is doing nothing. 

There is no guarantee that any investors in our sport will continue as before. So why are we waiting on the outcome to best preserve the status quo? Why arent we giving what guarantees and certainty we can to attract new investors and keep the ones we have? 

Businesses, all businesses, thrive better with certainty. We have none, are creating none, and are simply letting the chips fall where they may. The game currently has no direction, no leadership, no plan, aim or objective. 

Do we want 37/38 clubs? do we want more? Less? Do we want 12 in SL? More? Less? Do we want 14 in the championship? Do we want a 3rd pro tier? Do we want clubs in france? Canada? do we want to expand the game? do we want to consolidate? What size do we need those clubs to be? What TV deal do we want? how does that look in terms of fixtures? What are the minimum standards we want for each level? None of these things should be affected by anything that happens during this virus. 

Thats all fantastic and I totally agree with most of it. Lots of it I'd like to implement myself. 

But you are really seeming to struggle with the stark reality that we may be back to square 1 or even behind that when all this is over. There may not be a Catalans Dragons or Toulouse to base a French tv deal on. There may not be several of the English clubs either. Ottawa's funding may be shaken. Nobody knows what RL emerges from this like.

Elstone and Rimmer can have all the visions they want, but there's a high chance a lot of that will be cut short in some way and will have to adapt to the new environment. I'm sure they all have visions of what they want SL to look like, Elstone since day 1 has been focussed on prepping the game for this next TV deal (whether you think he's done it well or not is irrelevant in many respects).

What emerges from this may give the game an opportunity to push forward in new areas, but that can't be done until you know what you have to go with. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They've definitely got a number of FT players and run an academy. I'd say that makes them more full time than most. 

Thanks, just wondering why you put them in that Catagory, perhaps it is a personal preference.

Has Hela says, there are some Hybrid clubs, like mine for example, our Chairmen Mr Beaumont publicly issued a statement last week with regards to Leigh Centurions current standing, I will put it on here if you wish.

[Saint Toppy]

16 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

We can put in place the plans and actions to control what we can control (the structure, our aims, objectives, overall direction etc) and respond to the things that we can't.

What we are seeing is giving up any control and waiting to see what we are left with and start again from there. 

So much of this situation is out of anybody's control that any sort of firm long term plans are almost pointless. The best they can do at this stage is multiple scenario planning at a fairly high level and engage with their key stakeholders to gain their views.

Nobody knows what financial aid will be provided. Nobody knows how many clubs will survive across any of the divisions, or may have to drop from full time to part time, or part time to amateur just to survive. They need to plan for divisions from anywhere between 6 and 16 teams as well as considering what the structure & format would work best with all the remaining clubs. Do we stay with P&R, do we switch back to Licencing ?

Its not giving up control, we have to be realistic and accept that a lot of things are likely to change in the sport following this crisis.

If, and its a big if at the moment, we play any more games in 2020 its going to be almost like a series of friendlies just so clubs can generate income and we then start afresh again in 2021 under whatever new format is appropriate.

Aside from going full time and switching to summer rugby (which caused a massive rift with Barla), the game has remained fairly static for generations, just constant tinkering with formats. Maybe some good may come out of this terrible situation and the game can make some radical changes and grow into what most of us think it could be. We have a fantastic product but seemingly have held ourselves back through a combination of keeping tradition & status quo or inept leadership.

Personally i'm hopeful that the game will emerge stronger & more stable from all this, but my biggest concern it we still have a leadership team in the RFL who have shown time & again they neither have the knowledge or ability to lead.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks, just wondering why you put them in that Catagory, perhaps it is a personal preference.

Has Hela says, there are some Hybrid clubs, like mine for example, our Chairmen Mr Beaumont publicly issued a statement last week with regards to Leigh Centurions current standing, I will put it on here if you wish.

Yeah Fev are another one like Leigh in that respect and so were Widnes up till it all went belly up last year iirc.

I picked Bradford because they have an academy and were a general example of a large sized Championship club who could be asked to fill the ranks in SL should some drop out.

[RP London]

As much as there ever is at RFL towers and SL manor there will be a plan for what they wanted SL to look like next year and the year after.. that is what they will be looking at taking to SKY in negotiations. That is still there and still can be done.. 

however, as someone running a business that is classified as "essential" but with orders dropping off a cliff, i can tell you that no matter what i had planned for the rest of this year and beginning of next is still in "the plan" but is shifting to later as the stark reality of making sure the business is still functioning when we come out of this, and how we get it back to full strength, is really hitting. Not just us but our customers, some of which will die off after flooding and now this, the loss of a holiday season or two, the fact one of our plans was about expanding this area and also export (which is now on hold for everyone). No companies are talking about new business or line extensions they are all talking about staffing, social distancing and staying open/closing. 

To think SL and Rugby League are any different is daft. There is already a plan (we are not privy to it, and we wouldnt have been anyway) and it is still there but as has been said there may need to be some flexibility in this. We are in unprecedented times, SKY and other TV companies may not look quite like they did before either.. 

To try and plan now for what will happen is impossible, keep the plans you already had, change the timings on them if you are like me (i know RL will be different as they have defined deadlines etc) but the plans will just HAVE to alter. If that means a strange transition season then so be it.. it will not just be RL that is debating this.

From day to day, month to month everything is changing you cannot plan for 1-2 years ahead when you, quite literally, do not know what is happening tomorrow... there is talk of this still being an issue in 18 months (lockdowns, relaxations, lockdowns, relaxations and so on).. how the hell can you seriously think that you can plan for that. Every plan is up in the air for everyone, RL is no different. 

 

[Tommygilf]

38 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There may not be a les Catalans or Toulouse to get a french TV deal but it's a lot harder to keep a les Catalans or Toulouse when we dont know whether we want french teams.

If we make a decision on what we want and what we aim for we can work at making that happen. We can give them the certainty and guarantees they need, we can help them find investors, we can create a product that is attractive to french broadcasters and not just a convenient offshoot of SL. 

We cant spend three months thinking it doesnt matter what we want, do nothing the  look at the mess we are left with and wondering why it's not what we want. 

There are things that you can do, especially as resources dwindle. We can focus those resources, focus what we have on the bits that will benefit the game the most, change things, adapt. But we cant just drift and then wonder why we have washed up somewhere rubbish. 

This, and your subsequent post to St Toppy, belies your position I think.

The logical conclusion of your thinking is that we take this moment, when the game and society is at its most vulnerable, to change the funding model so that you can guarantee the clubs that you personally wish to see survive do and essentially who cares about the rest. Prioritising those you wish to see advance. 

I think thats an incredibly cynical way of looking at this crisis. I don't think its entirely illogical, but it is certainly cynical. Just as saying we should use this crisis to cut off all "expansion clubs" and focus on the heartlands would be. 

In any case I think we'll get at least a 3week/1month warning as to when sport is going to resume. That should give the RFL and Super League enough time to assess the damage and see what can be salvaged and move on from there. That very well may be that only a group of 20 or so clubs remain across the 3 leagues and we have to regroup from there. 

[Saint Toppy]

21 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I disagree, the actions we take now and the direction we set now will govern in a large part our situation when we come out of this. 

We can come out stronger but if we do, it's by judgement not luck.

We set out what we want 2021 to look like and work towards it. We need everyone pulling in the same direction, we need to focus resources where they are needed and where  the game most benefits, we need to seize the opportunities that chaos can offer, we need to be ready and prepared to go where we want to go. 

If the game needs more money, desperately, then it needs to find ways of making money fast. That could be a 9s weekend/series, a winter cup comp. The game will have been on hiatus for 2 or 3 months at least, we should be planning and organising big events for when it comes back, if clubs are going to go pop we should have a plan for getting them to the end of the year. Is it really sensible to be running an SL reserves while other clubs are going bust? 

We can have our contingencies. The game can make decisions even without all the information. 

If we wait for the government to ride in a white horse and dump money on RL clubs to make up for what they have lost then we arent going to see the game survive. 

Appreciate where your coming from and agree that they could start planning some stand alone money generating events like a 9's series, but what exactly do you think they should plan for in a structure  given there are so many different scenario's that could emerge ?

Do they plan for a 6 team or a 14 team SL, do they plan for it to be all full time teams or a mixture of full time & part time ?

Do they plan for a bigger league with say 16 or 20 teams but have a lower salary cap to enable the ones who are really struggling financially to be able to still compete ?

Do they go with a SL licence structure based purely on who has the financial stability to operate as they do now & grow ?

Do they plan for all lower leagues to be pretty much amateur ?

Do they throw what little money they have at all clubs in the hope of saving them even if they are highly likely to fail, or do they plough their money & resources into the clubs most likely to survive to give the best chance for the game as a whole to survive at a professional level ? 

 

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

This, and your subsequent post to St Toppy, belies your position I think.

The logical conclusion of your thinking is that we take this moment, when the game and society is at its most vulnerable, to change the funding model so that you can guarantee the clubs that you personally wish to see survive do and essentially who cares about the rest. Prioritising those you wish to see advance. 

I think thats an incredibly cynical way of looking at this crisis. I don't think its entirely illogical, but it is certainly cynical. Just as saying we should use this crisis to cut off all "expansion clubs" and focus on the heartlands would be. 

In any case I think we'll get at least a 3week/1month warning as to when sport is going to resume. That should give the RFL and Super League enough time to assess the damage and see what can be salvaged and move on from there. That very well may be that only a group of 20 or so clubs remain across the 3 leagues and we have to regroup from there. 

there will have to be some sort of warning for sure, almost a mini pre season, as players will need to get some form of fitness/sharpness back.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

there will have to be some sort of warning for sure, almost a mini pre season, as players will need to get some form of fitness/sharpness back.

Absolutely. There will be that both by the government and then the sport and perhaps the two may not overlap.

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Appreciate where your coming from and agree that they could start planning some stand alone money generating events like a 9's series, but what exactly do you think they should plan for in a structure  given there are so many different scenario's that could emerge ?

Do they plan for a 6 team or a 14 team SL, do they plan for it to be all full time teams or a mixture of full time & part time ?

Do they plan for a bigger league with say 16 or 20 teams but have a lower salary cap to enable the ones who are really struggling financially to be able to still compete ?

Do they go with a SL licence structure based purely on who has the financial stability to operate as they do now & grow ?

Do they plan for all lower leagues to be pretty much amateur ?

Do they throw what little money they have at all clubs in the hope of saving them even if they are highly likely to fail, or do they plough their money & resources into the clubs most likely to survive to give the best chance for the game as a whole to survive at a professional level ? 

 

and how does that all change from one month to the next as the longer this goes on the more clubs will have potential issues they cannot come back from. The plan will constantly change.. are you then wasting time planning now for something that will be fundamentally different in 2-3 months time. 

it is going to have to be a "rough plan" whatever the plan is.. and it is not necessarily going to be popular with everyone (what is!)

[RP London]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

There isn't a plan though, thats why Chairmen are throwing out options like going to 13 for an indeterminate amount of time. 

 

rubbish.. of course there is a plan for next year, there always has been it is idiotic to think there is not.. that plan may need some changes now from what it looked like 3 months ago but what they are throwing out are suggestions that might have to come in DEPENDING on when this is all over..

in the same way as the Premier League have put out the suggestion they may promote the top 2 in the EFL and relegate no one and then in 2021-2 season relegate 4 and promote 2 to even the league back up... its a SUGGESTION of what might happen with a large amount of "what if"... if the league can restart in May then no worries, if it does not restart at all then there will be discussions to be had.. 

this is an ever changing environment and needs to be dealt as such.. all plans that were in place are still in place but from one week to the next they are tweaked and the changes may become more severe.. people will always speculate (we are very short on sports news at the moment).. but to think the governing bodies have no plan and are not discussion options is IMHO so wide of the mark it is laughable. 

[GUBRATS]

48 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

This, and your subsequent post to St Toppy, belies your position I think.

The logical conclusion of your thinking is that we take this moment, when the game and society is at its most vulnerable, to change the funding model so that you can guarantee the clubs that you personally wish to see survive do and essentially who cares about the rest. Prioritising those you wish to see advance. 

I think thats an incredibly cynical way of looking at this crisis. I don't think its entirely illogical, but it is certainly cynical. Just as saying we should use this crisis to cut off all "expansion clubs" and focus on the heartlands would be. 

In any case I think we'll get at least a 3week/1month warning as to when sport is going to resume. That should give the RFL and Super League enough time to assess the damage and see what can be salvaged and move on from there. That very well may be that only a group of 20 or so clubs remain across the 3 leagues and we have to regroup from there. 

Correct , we will have plenty of notice for any resumption , I'd expect there to still be some restrictions for a period of time afterwards 

[GUBRATS]

47 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Appreciate where your coming from and agree that they could start planning some stand alone money generating events like a 9's series, but what exactly do you think they should plan for in a structure  given there are so many different scenario's that could emerge ?

Do they plan for a 6 team or a 14 team SL, do they plan for it to be all full time teams or a mixture of full time & part time ?

Do they plan for a bigger league with say 16 or 20 teams but have a lower salary cap to enable the ones who are really struggling financially to be able to still compete ?

Do they go with a SL licence structure based purely on who has the financial stability to operate as they do now & grow ?

Do they plan for all lower leagues to be pretty much amateur ?

Do they throw what little money they have at all clubs in the hope of saving them even if they are highly likely to fail, or do they plough their money & resources into the clubs most likely to survive to give the best chance for the game as a whole to survive at a professional level ? 

 

Too many questions with not enough certainty to make any form of decision 

[GUBRATS]

46 minutes ago, RP London said:

there will have to be some sort of warning for sure, almost a mini pre season, as players will need to get some form of fitness/sharpness back.

And most likely still some restrictions on numbers attending 

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

How can there be a plan for next year if we dont know how many are in the league.

I can tell you the premeir leagues plan, and football leagues plan. 3 clubs will be relegated, 3 will be promoted, the season will finish. 

I cant tell you anything about our plan.

You may trust that we have one but all I have heard from the game is that the government will ride in to the rescue. 

The plan was to be the same a this year.. one down one up its quite simple we all knew that at the beginning of the season.. do we do know how many will be in the league next season IF the season gets to a conclusion in a sensible manner.. whats so tough to understand? there is a plan but that plan is now uncertain as it is in EVERY sport and EVERY organisation!

as for your "premier league plan"... really? they havent confirmed that, they dont even know when this is going to be resolved. They have moved the European competitions but they dont know how they are going to do the last rounds as there are suggestions of it being one off matches instead of 2 legs, but also a mini tournament all at one location to finish it quickly. The leagues dont know if they will be able to restart, restart behind closed doors or to do anything because NO ONE knows when the lock down will end. THEY suggested this year may go to no relegation and 2 promoted with the year after being 4 down 2 up.. their "plan" is up in the air as much as anyones... how have you missed all this in your omnipotent status? 

To say you KNOW what is going to happen is you spouting because NO ONE knows what is going to happen.. all we have is best guesses. The ONLY time we will really know is when the OK is given to re start anything... 

Stop trying to sound as though you have any more idea of how this should work than anyone else you are just starting to sound daft.. 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

How can there be a plan for next year if we dont know how many are in the league.

I can tell you the premeir leagues plan, and football leagues plan. 3 clubs will be relegated, 3 will be promoted, the season will finish. 

There is already a best case scenario fixtures list and a worst case scenario fixture list available for the NRL

I cant tell you anything about our plan.

You may trust that we have one but all I have heard from the game is that the government will ride in to the rescue. 

Against my better judgement I'll reply to one of your crazy posts 

The government cannot afford to bail out the premier League or the football league , and most likely won't need to apart from support at the lower levels 

The government most likely can afford to bail out our top 3 leagues given the relatively low numbers and low costs we carry , but again until they ( everybody ) knows how long this is going to last , then any speculation is just pointless 

Find something more useful to do than posting constant nonsense on here about something that isn't really important at all 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Settle down buddy, there is no reason to stress yourself so much

Yes they have confirmed that they will aim to finish the season as normal they have created extra space in the calendar by moving a competition many many many times the size of RL for a year to do so.

The NRL have published a best case and worst case scenario for their fxture lists. You can see it if you want. 

 

for a start there is much to stress about... you are not one.. you are just being a tool, and i am calling you on it.. that is not getting stressed.. but boy do you think highly of yourself to think you are causing me any stress in a time like this!

The PL have given various options...  that is ok

the NRL are giving various options (yes i've seen them oh sarcastic one!)..  that is ok

the SL/RFL start talking about options and people go on about "they need a plan" 

FFS get over yourself!

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

How can there be a plan for next year if we dont know how many are in the league.

I can tell you the premeir leagues plan, and football leagues plan. 3 clubs will be relegated, 3 will be promoted, the season will finish. 

I cant tell you anything about our plan.

You may trust that we have one but all I have heard from the game is that the government will ride in to the rescue. 

That's false. Thats what they want to see but whether that actually happens is another story.

By that logic SL will have 12 teams with 1 relegated and 1 promoted by playoffs. As you were.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The government isnt going to bail out the sport. 

If that's what you are waiting for you are watching it die. 

The length of time this goes on for is only one aspect of the equation. 

Other sports are far more advanced in their planning than we are. But at least when club after club after club go bust peoples ire will be directed at the racist annoying person in no10, and though he wont be responsible for it. He deserves it anyway

really??? how do you know that are you in on the RFL board meetings?

the plan i heard last was that we restart with no loop fixtures... sounds like a plan to me.. given when they first think this may restart and the time left to do it.. whether that is right or wrong remains to be seen but it is a plan. 

If that looks like it is impossible then they will need to rethink.. just like everyone else is having to do.. 

no plan is worth the paper it is written on at the moment it is ever changing but I wouldnt expect them to be coming out all the time with a new plan left right and centre.. it will make no difference to whether clubs will survive or not just because there is a "plan" in place.. 

[RP London]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

Buddy, there is no reason to start insulting people and getting all upset. 

The PL have one option. Other people have suggested plenty in discussion but the PL and EFL have told us what they are doing. So have the NRL. 

I dont see why you have gotten so hot under the collar that I think the RFL and SL could do the same.

then you are not paying attention.. The PL have said that all options are still on the table.. their "intention" as is everyones in every walk of life is to carry on as normal and finish things but nothing is off the table.. 

the rest of your post is pointless. trying to wind up by being passive aggressive as per your norm..