13 team super league?

[RP London]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

As I said, you may trust that they have a secret plan. I hope they do.

Their public pronouncements however seem to indicate they don't 

I have not seen anything that makes me think they dont have plans in place.. mainly because i have heard plans... you seem to want to not believe them so fine.. whatever.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

Except it isnt is it. Or the opening post of this thread wouldn't have happened. 

If it's one up one down say so

The opening post of this thread is one chairmans suggestion. Karen Brady suggested something for the premier league including null and voiding the season, there has also been similar suggestions for the Premier League to have no relegation and 2 promoted.

I don't see how that is any different to what RL is currently experiencing.

[RP London]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

So they have a plan then?

I'm not being passive aggressive. You are just being weirdly aggressive and I'm asking you to stop. 

oh grow up.. 

yes to restart the season... and have 1 up 1 down as per... if this goes on longer they bin the loop fixtures.. why is this so hard to understand when it has been spoken about?

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And she was quickly shut down by the governing body. 

Its still an example, just like the 22 team idea, of proposals being put forward

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Cool, can you provide the links to a clear statement of their plans 

 

Something like this https://www.efl.com/news/2020/march/efl-statement-board-update-on-coronavirus/

The plan is the season next season has the same numbers and same rules as last year... that is the plan until it changes.. therefore no news means that plan is in place.. How you get there is under constant review due to the fact from day to day things area changing.. 

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/11963092/no-date-for-rugby-leagues-return-after-super-league-and-rfl-meeting

Top article in the RL section of the BBC sport website too. they are working on the scenarios.. these are plans.. they are working on plans... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/52008503

this bbc article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/51961989 is talking about the other options which it is stating are under consideration so part of the plans.. 

shows that they are talking to the game about the scenarios... these are plans for ifs buts and maybes of when the league season re starts.. but each day something changes the whole scenario changes and a whole new plan needs to be put in place.. 

you asked about a plan for next year, numbers etc.. at the moment it is 12 nothing has changed.. how we get there is the question and that cannot be answered until we know when this all ends.. but they have plans/scenarios and they are passing them around.. I have seen interviews with Rimmer where he talks of "possibilities" because that is all they can possibly be at the moment.. a full plan can only be drawn up when dates are actually known.. some of which will depend on football due to ground availability too. 

so yes there are plans being drawn up, there are options they can use.. its not tough to know this, it just doesnt fit your argument

 

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Where is this?

bbc wesbite... its not tough to find.. i've linked it in my previous post.. 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

But there is a difference between people having ideas and a governing body having a plan

Think about it the other way. What is wrong with the game saying this our plan? What do we lose even if that plan changes later on?

Well their plan is resume the league season then. That was easy.

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

That's a journalist speculating. Not a statement from people within the game

ok so the "it is understood that".. is not being taken that the journalist has spoken to those within the game and got this with a "dont quote me" caveat.. ok if that fits your agenda go for your life!

 

[GUBRATS]

29 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So they have a plan then?

I'm not being passive aggressive. You are just being weirdly aggressive and I'm asking you to stop. 

You are just being your usual self , I'd have thought that the actual enormity of the current crisis might have got through that skull of yours , it appears it hasn't 

All the best 

[RP London]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

You have posted three links. 1 says there is no date for return. That doesnt sound like much of a plan.

One says there are lots of things that could happen but gives no response to any of them

The other is just speculation from a journalist 

oh for crying out loud man... they consistently talk about working through scenarios with clubs, working with clubs and stakeholders on how to move forward when they can... what is that if not planning ffs?!?!

If you want a reason for them not publishing a "plan" re read this thread... it would get torn to bits becuase the next day, thanks to some idiot thinking the new rules dont apply to them, the lock down is extended etc.. it is ever changing, the plan is therefore ever changing it is pointless to give too much information.. the important people in this are the clubs and stakeholders (sky etc) and it would appear they are all on these discussions

[GUBRATS]

Maybe , just maybe , the various club owners , most of who run businesses far bigger and employing many more people than their ' hobby ' are busy right now sorting out the very difficult situation they find themselves in , and indeed won't know how their own financial situation will be in a month's time 

As these owners would need to be part of any ' planning ' , I'd prefer them to be concentrating on their long term future than wasting time planning for things completely out of their control at some obscure point in time 

 

[Saint Toppy]

58 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If you make the decision to have say 12 clubs in SL then you create a 12 club SL. 

If we get towards june july and clubs like salford are going pop, we do what we need to stop that happening or get them to the end of the season and have time to replace them for next year.

If we want a 14 team league then we find 14 clubs. If we want to be fully pro then they have to be fully pro.

We cant direct whatever resources we have, financial and otherwise, if we dont know where we want to be.

a 12 club SL based at what level - Full time, part time, a mixture of both depending on how many viable clubs you have left for full time ? Its not a decision you can make until you know its a remotely feasible 

It all well & good saying things like we want 14 clubs and will find 14 fully pro clubs - but there simply may not be 14 clubs that can be fully pro - so the whole plan is nothing more than a pipe dream. What happens if we make that decision for 14 full time pro clubs and we end up with only 8 viable clubs able to remain full time. Do we stick with the 14 club league and have 8 full time & 6 part time, creating a hugely uneven competition ?

You say we do what we need to stop clubs going pop - is that the right thing to do to throw what is already a limited amount of money in the game at a club that has very little chance of surviving ? or should we say focus the money the game has in rebuilding the clubs that have managed to survive. Whats better for the game as a whole 12 or 14 weaker clubs with many who are still teetering on the brink or 8 stronger clubs and then build on this solid base and expand the numbers in years to come as we get more viable clubs ?

I seriously doubt there will ever be a big cash injection from government to be able to run the game as it currently is. So the sad fact is it needs to change to survive if we still want a professional sport and tough decisions are going to have to be made on whether to let clubs go under and start again in the lower leagues.

[Saint Toppy]

49 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The opening post of this thread is one chairmans suggestion. Karen Brady suggested something for the premier league including null and voiding the season, there has also been similar suggestions for the Premier League to have no relegation and 2 promoted.

I don't see how that is any different to what RL is currently experiencing.

Bit different for football - they're 3/4's of their way through their season and Liverpool are only 2 wins away from being crowned champions. Removing relegation maybe, but nulling the entire season seems a bit unfair to a club like Liverpool. RL isn't even 1/4 of the way through their season.

[Forever Trinity]

So no one on this thread that I can see has considered the impact on players health if they contract this disease. If the season does re-start what if sat the aftermath of getting this disease is difficult for some people to get over after all it is a form of Pneumonia and aggressive at that.

Any team could suffer significantly be it the top team or the bottom team as the table stands. the way forward is not just as simple as at the moment we are on hold this could take months and even big clubs with large salaries to pay could be in even more trouble than some of the sugar daddy-less teams.

Its a pause at the moment and the future seems a way off at the moment but it should also be an opportunity for the game to re-evaluate ts strategy and marketing appeal.

 

One area I forgot is players contracts some players are ooc this season I am sure they will be looking for stability at this time.

[Tommygilf]

42 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Bit different for football - they're 3/4's of their way through their season and Liverpool are only 2 wins away from being crowned champions. Removing relegation maybe, but nulling the entire season seems a bit unfair to a club like Liverpool. RL isn't even 1/4 of the way through their season.

Oh I agree I was just using it as an example of proposals having been put forward.

[sweaty craiq]

Time to be radical and start maximizing the sport. Two divisions of 10 for SL next year. TO, Leigh, Fev, Bulls, Newcastle, Widnes to Join the 12 then be brave with Ottawa and Avignon - 3 years no relegation to the PT leagues provided playing and economic standards are met, 1 up/down between SL1/2 with a play off similar to mid 8's between 2nd bottom SL1 and 2-4 SL2 winner is in SL1

 

[RP London]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/52039338

Elstone “We have a daily conference call among Super League executives ”Elstone continued: "Right now it's impossible to know how long this suspension period will last but we're looking at a variety of scenarios that means, when it does it get lifted, we're in a good place to start quickly and fulfil as many of our seasonal obligations as we can.”

 

Wow, it’s like they have a general plan (sounds like what most of us thought) and continually talk to adapt with different scenarios.... who’d have thunk it.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/52039338

Elstone “We have a daily conference call among Super League executives ”Elstone continued: "Right now it's impossible to know how long this suspension period will last but we're looking at a variety of scenarios that means, when it does it get lifted, we're in a good place to start quickly and fulfil as many of our seasonal obligations as we can.”

 

Wow, it’s like they have a general plan (sounds like what most of us thought) and continually talk to adapt with different scenarios.... who’d have thunk it.

Very short ones at the moment I'd suggest 

[Saint Toppy]

20 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not arguing here in favour of anyone one format. I have my preference but that's not what I'm arguing here. Just that we choose one so we cant start doing whatever is necessary to make that happen.

Let's say that we go 14 SL, 16 championship, regionalised lower leagues with an intention to grow. That's the basis of our plan. It's not my preference but it's not a terrible idea. 

Once that is made everything and all the adjustments we make are based upon that. Do we can tell the 14 clubs that they will be in SL next year regardless. That gives them time to seek additional financing, gives them guaranteed income next year, release the pressure to spend on players this year, and allows us to direct the resources within the game, in time and money, to get them to next year as pro clubs. If one or two are looking shaky, extra resources can be directed that way. If most cant get to the level we want, we can look at bringing down that level for a short while. 

If we know we want 14 clubs and 14 clubs gets us the best tv deal and provides the best product but 8 of the 14 clubs we want wont make it to 2022 at this level, drop it down. Lower the salary cap for this year and next but increase the marquee exemption to 5 players. Clubs can cut back, stars wont be lost and clubs will get a year or two breathing space. 

We can start relaxing the rules on loans, the reserves mess we have now looks a little silly if clubs at championship and L1 and even SL are struggling for players.

I agree that we arent going to see a massive lump of cash coming from the government. It's just not going to happen 

All potentially viable structure idea's Scotchy, but still kind of misses the point that its virtually impossible to make any decisions at this stage with so many unknowns. So the best they should do multiple scenario planning and then develop these further as the situation unfolds. A time will then come when 1 or more of these scenario's is viable and one of these can then be adopted.

[Harry Stottle]

21 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

If we want a 14 team league then we find 14 clubs. If we want to be fully pro then they have to be fully pro.

Give any of the challengers for promotion £2M in funding and they will ensure the club will be fully pro and the crowds will return, Leigh averaged *6,500 in 2017, but you only like to qoute what you want to qoute about Leigh, never anything positive like this.

* Only Saints brought anything like a following approx 2,500 from an attendance of 9,000, Wigan, Wire (both on our doorstep) just over 1,000, Leeds, it was hard to spot any Blue and Amber colours, so what I am saying is it was the populas of the town that made up most of the attendances. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

34 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Just isnt true Harry. It would take at least 5-10 years for any of the championship clubs to get up to that level and millions in investment.

There is no academy, no fully pro back office and commercial staff, no fully pro training and conditioning staff.

There is far more to being an SL club than employing other teams players in a rented stadium. 

If there werent the gap between SL and the championship wouldnt be so big 

Money is the reason Academies especially by the top three are so successful, if you think otherwise then you are missing the point that Leeds, Saints and Wigan go anywhere and every where to mop up the best talent available, they sign kids to their clubs as young as 13, call it an insurance if you like so no one else gets them, when they reach academy age a lot are jettisoned, and then jettisoned again if not of first team quality by the end of their academy journey,

Training and conditioning staff follows suit, getting the funding along with the increased attendances finances these positions. 

"If there werent the gap between SL and the championship wouldnt be so big"

We seemingly have this difference of opinion of some clubs in SL, I have asked you on numerous occasions before of how many incumbant SL clubs are only performing in that division cuertosy of receiving the funding, you always avoid that question.

You like to include London as one of your SL teams, but they are a prime example, when relegation was rubber stamped they had to let player's go because without the funding they could not pay them, had they not been relegated those player's I should imagine would still be performing there and most probably some 'better' player's also.

I have said it for many year's that what is wrong with our P&R system is that promotion cannot be prepared for until promotion is secured, and by that time because we have a shortage of functional SL quality player's they are are not available to sign. BUT I would sooner take my chances than to have a closed shop SL again.

PS, not only Championship clubs are in rented Stadia, so are two of our so called big 6.

 

 

[Saint Toppy]

30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont think it is impossible. As I've said I'm working with far bigger companies with far more complex supply chains and bigger more complex contracts and each of them have a plan. 

Yes there are contingencies and unexpected developments and adjustments but there is a very clear roadmap from A to B.

We havent even decided what B is. 

Undertaking multiple scenario planning is one thing (and exactly what I've been saying), what they wont do is enact any of those plans until they are in a position to ensure its a viable plan and will deliver what they need.

RL is in no position to make any sort of decisions now regarding make up & structure of the leagues as there are far too many unknowns. The best they can do is come up with multiple scenario plans that can be developed to implementation when the position becomes clearer.

They should prepare high levels plans for an 8 team, 10 team, 12 team etc. SL and include scenarios for full time, part time etc.

What they shouldn't be doing at the moment is picking one and then try to make it work later.

[GUBRATS]

48 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Money is the reason Academies especially by the top three are so successful, if you think otherwise then you are missing the point that Leeds, Saints and Wigan go anywhere and every where to mop up the best talent available, they sign kids to their clubs as young as 13, call it an insurance if you like so no one else gets them, when they reach academy age a lot are jettisoned, and then jettisoned again if not of first team quality by the end of their academy journey,

Training and conditioning staff follows suit, getting the funding along with the increased attendances finances these positions. 

"If there werent the gap between SL and the championship wouldnt be so big"

We seemingly have this difference of opinion of some clubs in SL, I have asked you on numerous occasions before of how many incumbant SL clubs are only performing in that division cuertosy of receiving the funding, you always avoid that question.

You like to include London as one of your SL teams, but they are a prime example, when relegation was rubber stamped they had to let player's go because without the funding they could not pay them, had they not been relegated those player's I should imagine would still be performing there and most probably some 'better' player's also.

I have said it for many year's that what is wrong with our P&R system is that promotion cannot be prepared for until promotion is secured, and by that time because we have a shortage of functional SL quality player's they are are not available to sign. BUT I would sooner take my chances than to have a closed shop SL again.

PS, not only Championship clubs are in rented Stadia, so are two of our so called big 6.

 

 

You bored Harry ?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

You cannot run all that on the difference between the sky funding. 

Being a pro, SL level club is more than taking the sky money and giving it to players.

I didn't say that Scotchy, in your opinion had Leigh not built on but maintained an average of 6,500 do you think the they could have survived on that amount in SL?

And, you avouded the funding question of certain SL clubs once more.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You bored Harry ?

Actually keeping myself quite busy Gubby, got myself subconsciously "clocking on and off" so having a look at this site on my break(s) and "snap time".