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Which Sydney club must go

Mr Plow

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Allora

Allora

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

By new markets I meant expansion markets (i.e. anywhere outside of NSW in this context), and it's undeniable that there're more NRL fans now than than when the Bears dropped out.

Just take the Storm's fan base, and that is roughly one and a half new fans for every old Bears fan that was lost to the sport.

Go into isolation with no internet already.

Its posters like you that will kill this game and the associated Forums like this.

Your know it all posts and ego are putting people off wanting to post or come here.

Give it a rest mate ffs and get a life beyond being the know it all on a Rugby League Forum.

 

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

Posted
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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

By new markets I meant expansion markets (i.e. anywhere outside of NSW in this context), and it's undeniable that there're more NRL fans now than than when the Bears dropped out.

Just take the Storm's fan base, and that is roughly one and a half new fans for every old Bears fan that was lost to the sport.

Melbourne existed, that is growth with, or without the bears

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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40 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

No not really. I dont see any benefit to cutting the numbers in the NRL right now, i think if they grow the numbers they will see the ones who struggle now struggle more. 16 is probably the right number for them at the moment.

I think there are at least 2 bids who would be better for the sport ergo I'd move 2 for now. In 4 or 5 years perhaps cut that to 6. Perhaps the consolidation now will see 7 strong clubs and that wont be necessary

So why is 16 the right number?

and to my question earlier, which 2-4 Sydney clubs do you think should go?

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Eddie

Eddie

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

So again, relegation doesnt attract fans.

On the contrary, in the last game of the season where a team need to win to stay up they’ll get lots more fans than an end of season mid table game, and if they win it will be like winning a trophy and be talked about for years. 

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Davo5

Davo5

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

It's hard to predict exactly how many clubs should be in Sydney, and where in Sydney they should be, because it depends on market pressures, and honestly not all the information necessary to make a truly informed decision is publicly available either.

But I'd say 5-7 is about right, especially when considering the clubs that have been saved from folding in the past.

 

So you say Sydney clubs should be culled but you don't know how many or the criteria by which such clubs should be selected,basically you have a theory butt don't have anything to back it up apart from a fellow poster who lives in another dimension.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Because that's how many teams I think they can support at the moment. I'm not sure adding 2 more at the would see growth congruent with 2 more mouths at the table. I think of you added 2 more it would see the struggling clubs struggle more and weaken the comp a little.

I think if you had 9 strong clubs in sydney and the likes of gold coast were strong then I'd go to 18. 

That’s how many teams you think?

Based on what? Your vague theory of no intimate knowledge of the financial accounts of every Sydney RL Club?

Neither you or @The Great Dane ever want to answer the question to your proposal of which Sydney teams to get rid of.

”I think if you had 9 strong clubs in Sydney... blah blah”

sorry boys, your argument doesn’t cut the mustard.

see you on page 18

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 29/03/2020 at 21:47, Yakstorm said:

If you're looking at cutting teams from around Sydney and looking to only keeping the 'essential' sides, there really isn't any metric in which the Bulldogs would come into play, and there are very few when it comes to the Roosters.

Bulldogs have a huge supporter base, traditionally have had good membership and merchandise sales, rate extremely well on TV, have strong community connections as well have strong connections to community groups which are important to Rugby League's success in Sydney, as well have solid juniors and of course a long proud history, etc.  They also have plenty of financial clout behind them, with Canterbury League's having well over 200m worth of assets.

Roosters, whilst they may lack in Junior numbers, are one of the richer clubs in the league, have a lot of influence in the 'money making circles' in Sydney, and actually have quite strong membership numbers and crowd averages.  They also hold a strategically important position in Sydney, especially if the Rabbitohs keep playing out West.

Unfortunately clubs like Manly and Sharks would be in the firing line before those two, and you can argue that Manly is strategically important due to the lack of teams on Sydney's northside.

And Cronulla have a massive property development that will secure their financial future.

It's interesting how RL supporters and media constantly attack Sydney clubs and want certain ones moved or killed off. In Melbourne the opposite happens, they have 9 clubs with greater costs, they nurture and grow their game. They talk about a football "socialism". These clubs are the fabric of their game.

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 01/04/2020 at 09:07, Martyn Sadler said:

But creating ten new teams, and a new league, was regarded as a foolish gamble by many.

It illustrates the general point that the more teams involved in a league tends towards greater success.

NFL is a mainstream US sport in every city, apples and oranges compared to RL. 

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rlno1

rlno1

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14 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The obvious thing that doesnt get brought up is would there still be 15k bears fans if they had dropped out of the top flight by any other means.

For instance if they were relegated wouldnt the bears have seen a huge drop in support anyway. 

If so we are left with the idea that to cater for a quite small number of people who would only support a team in that small geographic area we must at all times and in all circumstances have a top flight team in that small area

Nonsense, it's like saying Canterbury only have 15-20,000 fans, why should we cater for them.

That small area covers the North Sydney area through to the Central Coast, a population of around  710k people and growing.

If the SL war had not occured the Beras would be in the comp today and would have played the last 20 years on the Central Coast as they planned to move into the new stadium at Gosford in or around 2000.

The goodwill for the game would be massive.

However people would rather a team in Adelaide playing to 6000 up against two massive AFL teams who average 80,000 between them and fight over what corporate crumbs are left.

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 31/03/2020 at 18:01, Hela Wigmen said:

Who and why?

Smart, watch TV audiences in Sydney halve and so to the TV dollars that allow us to compete with the AFL.

AFL will pump more money into Sydney cashing in on disgruntled sports fans. Look at what the AFL did when they could see the rumblings going on during the SL war.

They shipped Tony Lockett to the Swans in 1995 (he was all but signed to go to Collingwood before the AFL stepped in). Before that no one was interested in the Swans they were averaging 9000, as league cannibalised itself, the swans made the GF and their attendances grew to nearly 37,000 in 1997. More importantly people who loved league and their clubs and would not give AFL much attention gave it a go and low and behold they enjoyed it.

They then brought in Fremantle, Port Adelaide and Brisbane Lions.

Whilst league was sent 20 years backwards with no sponsors, poor crowds, poor image etc

 

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 31/03/2020 at 22:03, Toby Chopra said:

So you wouldn't even consider trading, say, Cronulla-Sutherland (pop. 250k) for Perth (pop. 2 million) even if the latter could be shown to bring more fans and more revenue to the sport? 

In Britain we have a mechanism for testing out those hypotheses - P&R. In Australia, some teams suck up more and more revenues into a black hole without any threat to their existance, even when another could step in in a much more healthy way. It's dependency, not support. 

Perth may have 2 million but most of them follow AFL, and they follow it passionately with the Eagles averaging 53k and Fremantle 41k last year. Plus they have their own local competition which has clubs with salary caps of around 300k and a GF which drew 25k in 2018.  

League would have the crumbs. Whilst I think we could have a club there it wouldn't be much stronger then a Sydney club .

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 31/03/2020 at 18:20, GUBRATS said:

Those TV rights have been built with the clubs you have , as I put earlier , the Broncos can't play themselves 

So which clubs do you want to ' cull ' and who do you want to replace them with ?

Exactly, Sydney clubs didn't join the Brisbane comp.

It was Canberra, Newcastle, Illawarra, Newcastle and Auckland, North Qld etc who joined the Sydney comp which is the bedrock Australian RL is built on.

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 01/04/2020 at 02:32, Eddie said:

They don’t now though, their attendances have dropped alarmingly, as have Wigan’s. 

You seem to think that if attendances are low today that's it, they will never go up again.

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