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Furlough Scheme abuse


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If we look at this in a slightly different way, if there was no such scheme, I'd expect clubs to lay off many of these backroom staff, as they are far easier to replace when things start up again. There'd be no work and they'd be laid off. Many sports clubs are not particularly well off, they'd have to save costs, that would be the easiest with low impact on the club

This scheme allows these people to retain their job when they would otherwise be laid off. You could say its exactly what it's for. 

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If we look at this in a slightly different way, if there was no such scheme, I'd expect clubs to lay off many of these backroom staff, as they are far easier to replace when things start up again. There'd be no work and they'd be laid off. Many sports clubs are not particularly well off, they'd have to save costs, that would be the easiest with low impact on the club

This scheme allows these people to retain their job when they would otherwise be laid off. You could say its exactly what it's for. 

But many companies haven't done that. These staff may well have been kept on at full cost to the club.

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18 minutes ago, Damien said:

But many companies haven't done that. These staff may well have been kept on at full cost to the club.

Have many companies done that? 

Which companies are paying out of their own money for staff to sit at home? It seems odd that they would do this. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Have many companies done that? 

Which companies are paying out of their own money for staff to sit at home? It seems odd that they would do this. 

There is a thread on companies that have done the right thing. I know where I work there are plenty of staff on special leave, the ones that cant work from home. None have been furloughed. I think your employment at a bank is showing as you seem to have real issues in comprehending the morals and ethics behind this ?.

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The government want companies to use this system , even to the point of re employing recently departed staff who haven't been employed elsewhere , it costs the companies virtually nothing , but keeps people away from the universal credit system that is being swamped 

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24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Have many companies done that? 

Which companies are paying out of their own money for staff to sit at home? It seems odd that they would do this. 

Quite a few are doing it. My company are topping up on furlough. Others are paying the full difference 

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There are suggestions that the government may of underestimated the number and variety of companies that will use the furlough scheme...

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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3 hours ago, Damien said:

There is a thread on companies that have done the right thing. I know where I work there are plenty of staff on special leave, the ones that cant work from home. None have been furloughed. I think your employment at a bank is showing as you seem to have real issues in comprehending the morals and ethics behind this ?.

How dare you!!! 

I'm genuinely not sure why this scheme wouldn't be used. My understanding is those still working (like us in banks) are either classed as essential workers or can work at home. 

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3 hours ago, Spidey said:

Quite a few are doing it. My company are topping up on furlough. Others are paying the full difference 

No, that is a different thing, and one I applaud and suggested at the start of this thread. 

If companies are topping up on furlough, they are still using the scheme. 

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In the BBC latest news section:

Premier League football clubs which do not cut the salaries of highly-paid players while furloughing non-playing staff must be told by the government to pay a windfall tax, says the Department of Culture, Media and Sport parliamentary committee.

DCMS committee chair Julian Knight has written to Chancellor Rishi Sunak urging for sanctions to be brought in to stop clubs pursuing what he describes as "a two-tier system".

"We are facing an obscene situation where top players who aren’t working are continuing to see hundreds of thousands of pounds roll in each week while the staff who keep the clubs going are losing wages," says Mr Knight.

Clubs have come under fire for not deferring the wages of their players, with players' union the Professional Footballers' Association facing criticism for its slow response.

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Just now, Damien said:

In the BBC latest news section:

Premier League football clubs which do not cut the salaries of highly-paid players while furloughing non-playing staff must be told by the government to pay a windfall tax, says the Department of Culture, Media and Sport parliamentary committee.

DCMS committee chair Julian Knight has written to Chancellor Rishi Sunak urging for sanctions to be brought in to stop clubs pursuing what he describes as "a two-tier system".

"We are facing an obscene situation where top players who aren’t working are continuing to see hundreds of thousands of pounds roll in each week while the staff who keep the clubs going are losing wages," says Mr Knight.

Clubs have come under fire for not deferring the wages of their players, with players' union the Professional Footballers' Association facing criticism for its slow response.

I can't see if this has been mentioned but this problem exists even when not in pandemic times. Basically, clubs have to honour their 'football costs' ahead of anything else. So you will see clubs that are in difficulties laying off everyone from the physio to the tea lady but keeping paying players their wages, unless those players agree to a pay cut. It's once the players stop being paid that you know the club is beyond life support.

And I'd not expect a response from the PFA on anything. Awful organisation.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, Damien said:

In the BBC latest news section:

Premier League football clubs which do not cut the salaries of highly-paid players while furloughing non-playing staff must be told by the government to pay a windfall tax, says the Department of Culture, Media and Sport parliamentary committee.

DCMS committee chair Julian Knight has written to Chancellor Rishi Sunak urging for sanctions to be brought in to stop clubs pursuing what he describes as "a two-tier system".

"We are facing an obscene situation where top players who aren’t working are continuing to see hundreds of thousands of pounds roll in each week while the staff who keep the clubs going are losing wages," says Mr Knight.

Clubs have come under fire for not deferring the wages of their players, with players' union the Professional Footballers' Association facing criticism for its slow response.

Is he seriously campaigning for more people to be furloughed and paid by the taxpayer when clubs are prepared to pay them? 

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I can't see if this has been mentioned but this problem exists even when not in pandemic times. Basically, clubs have to honour their 'football costs' ahead of anything else. So you will see clubs that are in difficulties laying off everyone from the physio to the tea lady but keeping paying players their wages, unless those players agree to a pay cut. It's once the players stop being paid that you know the club is beyond life support.

And I'd not expect a response from the PFA on anything. Awful organisation.

Gordon Taylor has done awfully well out of the PFA.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

Gordon Taylor has done awfully well out of the PFA.

Oh, he has. He really has.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

Oh, he has. He really has.

The annual unveiling of the salary paid to Gordon Taylor has become a ritual of public bewilderment, a surfacing of dysfunctional relationships embedded in a flourishing sport. This time the gasps were for £2.29m paid last year to the 73-year-old, who is the chief executive – since 1981 – of the Professional Footballers’ Association, which is still constituted as an actual trade union.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/16/gordon-taylor-salary-four-times-benevolent-grants-former-players-pfa

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17 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

Well the rules of the furlough scheme say you cant do anything related to your work whilst taking the money

 

I guess playing devils advocate - if a player worked out and kept their skills/condition up they break that rule

First game back:

Football.jpg

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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9 minutes ago, Damien said:

No

If the clubs furloughed everyone, including players, then that is what would happen. And people wouldn't complain, despite it being more expensive for the taxpayer. 

Unfortunately, people working in the office at the shop at a football club are the same as somebody who works at a shop on the High Street, the majority who have been furloughed.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If the clubs furloughed everyone, including players, then that is what would happen. And people wouldn't complain, despite it being more expensive for the taxpayer. 

Unfortunately, people working in the office at the shop at a football club are the same as somebody who works at a shop on the High Street, the majority who have been furloughed.

Cutting salaries of highly paid players is not furloughing them. It is completely different. 

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31 minutes ago, Damien said:

Cutting salaries of highly paid players is not furloughing them. It is completely different. 

Why are politicians campaigning for people to have their wages cut? 

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why are politicians campaigning for people to have their wages cut? 

Populism gone mad!

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why are politicians campaigning for people to have their wages cut? 

Because no one ever lost votes by ranting about footballers.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why are politicians campaigning for people to have their wages cut? 

To stop other less paid people having their wages cut and the taxpayer bailing them out when the club can quite easily fund this themselves. You may not agree to the reasoning behind it and, for some bizarre reason as a taxpayer, you may be more than happy at taxpayers cash being wasted on businesses that frankly can do without it. Others obviously disagree.

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There's no moral or legal duty to take a pay cut for someone else, but if you can afford to do that what a rewarding feeling that must give you.  Helping others.   Barcelona players it seems can do it.  I wonder if this ultra-capitalist UK society could abandon individualism for collectivism for just this short period in time to make a difference?

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25 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

There's no moral or legal duty to take a pay cut for someone else, but if you can afford to do that what a rewarding feeling that must give you.  Helping others.   Barcelona players it seems can do it.  I wonder if this ultra-capitalist UK society could abandon individualism for collectivism for just this short period in time to make a difference?

Quite a few football clubs have players taking pay cuts.

They aren't making the headlines.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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