Because we're all bored...Rovers top 100 players of the last 50 years

[The Phantom Horseman]

59 minutes ago, Gareth hock said:

Martyn Ridyard that’s a surprising one and I wouldn’t have king that high as likeable as he was he was are second best hooker last season behind Jones .

Ridyard surprising because he's too high or too low?

Maybe King is a tick too high but Connor Jones only played 11 games for us so fell well short of the qualifying threshold. For me Jones' distribution from dummy half was a bit erratic compared to King but I would have graded them about equal.

[marklaspalmas]

2 hours ago, Steve Slater said:

Lost in translation Mark, how are you coping? Stay safe mate. 

YEah, good thanks. I hope you are too.

I was simply trying to illustrate the many pitfalls of comparing players across generations. As a successful level two club over the past 10 years we've won many more games than in other eras but relative to all other clubs in the league, lie in the middle more or less. Ive tried to put a table together. Ive taken Rovers league poistion every year, and adjusted it if their was a higher division than ours. It's an unscientific way of working out where we stand.

SEASON	OVERALL POS	TOTAL CLUBS
21-2	24	26
22-3	24	27
23-4	23	27
24-5	17	27
25-6	15	27
26-7	11	29
27-8	3	29
28-9	25	29
29-30	23	28
30-1	26	28
31-2	19	28
32-3	26	28
33-4	28	28
34-5	27	28
35-6	30	30
36-7	30	30
37-8	26	29
38-9	22	28
39-40	Regional	27
40-1	Regional	23
41-2	12	17
42-3	8	14
43-4	13	16
44-5	14	17
45-6	13	27
46-7	26	28
47-8	27	28
48-9	26	29
49-50	25	29
50-1	26	29
51-2	22	31
52-3	24	30
53-4	14	30
54-5	9	31
55-6	6	30
56-7	15	30
57-8	8	30
58-9	13	30
59-60	5	30
60-1	11	30
61-2	3	30
62-3	11	30
63-4	4	30
64-5	15	30
65-6	15	30
66-7	20	30
67-8	18	30
68-9	7	30
69-70	8	30
70-1	20	30
71-2	7	30
72-3	2	30
73-4	8	30
74-5	4	30
75-6	2	30
76-7	1	30
77-8	7	30
78-9	14	30
79-80	17	30
80-1	12	31
81-2	10	33
82-3	12	33
83-4	12	34
84-5	9	36
85-6	13	34
86-7	14	34
87-8	16	34
88-9	6	34
89-90	10	35
90-1	8	35
91-2	13	36
92-3	15	35
93-4	11	32
94-5	11	32
95-6	16	33
1996	16	35
1997	19	34
1998	16	31
1999	19	32
2000	17	30
2001	17	31
2002	17	31
2003	19	32
2004	17	32
2005	21	32
2006	26	34
2007	24	34
2008	20	34
2009	20	35
2010	15	36
2011	15	35
2012	15	34
2013	15	37
2014	16	37
2015	17	38
2016	16	39
2017	16	40
2018	17	38
2019	17	37

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

47 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

YEah, good thanks. I hope you are too.

I was simply trying to illustrate the many pitfalls of comparing players across generations. As a successful level two club over the past 10 years we've won many more games than in other eras but relative to all other clubs in the league, lie in the middle more or less. Ive tried to put a table together. Ive taken Rovers league poistion every year, and adjusted it if their was a higher division than ours. It's an unscientific way of working out where we stand.

SEASON	OVERALL POS	TOTAL CLUBS
21-2	24	26
22-3	24	27
23-4	23	27
24-5	17	27
25-6	15	27
26-7	11	29
27-8	3	29
28-9	25	29
29-30	23	28
30-1	26	28
31-2	19	28
32-3	26	28
33-4	28	28
34-5	27	28
35-6	30	30
36-7	30	30
37-8	26	29
38-9	22	28
39-40	Regional	27
40-1	Regional	23
41-2	12	17
42-3	8	14
43-4	13	16
44-5	14	17
45-6	13	27
46-7	26	28
47-8	27	28
48-9	26	29
49-50	25	29
50-1	26	29
51-2	22	31
52-3	24	30
53-4	14	30
54-5	9	31
55-6	6	30
56-7	15	30
57-8	8	30
58-9	13	30
59-60	5	30
60-1	11	30
61-2	3	30
62-3	11	30
63-4	4	30
64-5	15	30
65-6	15	30
66-7	20	30
67-8	18	30
68-9	7	30
69-70	8	30
70-1	20	30
71-2	7	30
72-3	2	30
73-4	8	30
74-5	4	30
75-6	2	30
76-7	1	30
77-8	7	30
78-9	14	30
79-80	17	30
80-1	12	31
81-2	10	33
82-3	12	33
83-4	12	34
84-5	9	36
85-6	13	34
86-7	14	34
87-8	16	34
88-9	6	34
89-90	10	35
90-1	8	35
91-2	13	36
92-3	15	35
93-4	11	32
94-5	11	32
95-6	16	33
1996	16	35
1997	19	34
1998	16	31
1999	19	32
2000	17	30
2001	17	31
2002	17	31
2003	19	32
2004	17	32
2005	21	32
2006	26	34
2007	24	34
2008	20	34
2009	20	35
2010	15	36
2011	15	35
2012	15	34
2013	15	37
2014	16	37
2015	17	38
2016	16	39
2017	16	40
2018	17	38
2019	17	37

I did something similar a few months ago for the last 20 years - average league position (ignoring SL and based on league tables at the end of the regular season) is 5th (5.3).

[marklaspalmas]

46 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I did something similar a few months ago for the last 20 years - average league position (ignoring SL and based on league tables at the end of the regular season) is 5th (5.3).

Yes, we are remarkably consistent in that respect, apart from that run of being top and two years of NL2.

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

41 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Yes, we are remarkably consistent in that respect, apart from that run of being top and two years of NL2.

 

FWIW we had 6 finishes below 5th and 7 above. Over the same period Batley's average finishing position was 8th (7.8) with 6 finishes below and 6 above that.

[Gareth hock]

4 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Ridyard surprising because he's too high or too low?

Maybe King is a tick too high but Connor Jones only played 11 games for us so fell well short of the qualifying threshold. For me Jones' distribution from dummy half was a bit erratic compared to King but I would have graded them about equal.

Personally Ridyard wouldn’t be anywhere near my list .

[Steve Slater]

I wish we could compare players across generations Mark, especially the two teams from what were the two best ten year periods in our history, as far as league positions go. These were from August 1954 through to May 1964, and from August 1968 to May 1978. Remarkably, both these 10 season periods were preceded by Challenge Cup Final appearances. This afternoon we are about to watch a virtual Grand National, decided by computer. I would love to see a virtual game between the best players from these two sides, and I wonder which of these fantastic players the selectors would pick? I'll start the ball rolling with my selections, although I'm bottling out on one wing position on either side because of the keen competition for the shirt. How do you choose between Woolford & Waterworth , and between Coventry & Kellett? Hartley gets in my side because IMO he should have been picked for the 1974 tour and could play either wing or centre.

1954-64:- Jack Fennell, Gary Waterworth/Cyril Woolford, Ken Greatorex, Gary Cooper, Gary Jordan, Joe Mullaney, Don Fox, Len Hammill, Willis Fawley, Malcolm Dixon, Mick Clamp, Terry Clawson, Cliff Lambert.

1968-1978:- Harold Box, Paul Coventry/ Ken Kellett, Steve Evans, John Gilbert, Dave Hartley, John Newlove, Steve Nash,  Jimmy Thompson, Keith Bridges, Vince Farrar, Peter Smith, Charlie Stone, Keith Bell.

[The Phantom Horseman]

13 minutes ago, Gareth hock said:

Personally Ridyard wouldn’t be anywhere near my list .

All down to opinions. He was only here for a season but in my view had a major influence on our attacking game from the moment he arrived. His ability to suck in players in the middle of the park before firing the ball out towards the flanks created the space for so many tries including that absolutely amazing flurry from Luke Briscoe. He played a major role in beating Leigh away for the first time in ages and we won 14 of the 18 Championship games he played in. He did get a bad shoulder injury in the home game against Leigh, though, and I don't think he has been the same player since.

Tom Holmes had a big role too and I actually graded Holmes one tick higher than Ridyard on account of his defence being much better than Ridyard's, but I reckon Holmes' rating is probably the more controversial of the pair. I also only had Ridyard one tick higher than Anthony Thackeray and I don't think there were many clamouring for Ridyard to be dropped in favour of Thacks that season.

[sentoffagain2]

Top 100 players the ones i thought could be in are Danny Kirmond  (cert) centre or wing.Well off for half backs but i rated Paul Handforth who played S.L. with Wakey.Matty Dale Forward great workrate and Richard Gunn Hooker or back row.

[The Phantom Horseman]

37 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

Top 100 players the ones i thought could be in are Danny Kirmond  (cert) centre or wing.Well off for half backs but i rated Paul Handforth who played S.L. with Wakey.Matty Dale Forward great workrate and Richard Gunn Hooker or back row.

Can't argue with many of those. Kirmond at his best certainly though think he played most of his rugby for us in the third tier. Dale just missed out (I graded him at 7.9), same with Tiger but it's toss a coin stuff for a lot of players in that range.

[marklaspalmas]

1 hour ago, Steve Slater said:

I wish we could compare players across generations Mark, especially the two teams from what were the two best ten year periods in our history, as far as league positions go. These were from August 1954 through to May 1964, and from August 1968 to May 1978. Remarkably, both these 10 season periods were preceded by Challenge Cup Final appearances. This afternoon we are about to watch a virtual Grand National, decided by computer. I would love to see a virtual game between the best players from these two sides, and I wonder which of these fantastic players the selectors would pick? I'll start the ball rolling with my selections, although I'm bottling out on one wing position on either side because of the keen competition for the shirt. How do you choose between Woolford & Waterworth , and between Coventry & Kellett? Hartley gets in my side because IMO he should have been picked for the 1974 tour and could play either wing or centre.

1954-64:- Jack Fennell, Gary Waterworth/Cyril Woolford, Ken Greatorex, Gary Cooper, Gary Jordan, Joe Mullaney, Don Fox, Len Hammill, Willis Fawley, Malcolm Dixon, Mick Clamp, Terry Clawson, Cliff Lambert.

1968-1978:- Harold Box, Paul Coventry/ Ken Kellett, Steve Evans, John Gilbert, Dave Hartley, John Newlove, Steve Nash,  Jimmy Thompson, Keith Bridges, Vince Farrar, Peter Smith, Charlie Stone, Keith Bell.

The 88 to 95 team would give them both a more than close game.

[Steve Slater]

2 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

The 88 to 95 team would give them both a more than close game.

Would you like to select that side Mark, then we could have a virtual round robin, perhaps with a select side from another era that someone else could select? I'll take the 54-64 side if another old codger will volunteer as my assistant, if someone in their 50's would like to take charge of the 68-78 side?

[tms]

from original list  would have steve collins and kieth bell higher  and surprised dave busfield didn't make the cut

20 hours ago, Steve Slater said:

 

1954-64:- Jack Fennell, Gary Waterworth/Cyril Woolford, Ken Greatorex, Gary Cooper, Gary Jordan, Joe Mullaney, Don Fox, Len Hammill, Willis Fawley, Malcolm Dixon, Mick Clamp, Terry Clawson, Cliff Lambert.

1968-1978:- Harold Box, Paul Coventry/ Ken Kellett, Steve Evans, John Gilbert, Dave Hartley, John Newlove, Steve Nash,  Jimmy Thompson, Keith Bridges, Vince Farrar, Peter Smith, Charlie Stone, Keith Bell.

Two good teams steve but would   have  vaughan  thomas  on  one wing in 54/64  and for 68/78 pick alan rhodes over charlie

[marklaspalmas]

15 hours ago, Steve Slater said:

Would you like to select that side Mark, then we could have a virtual round robin, perhaps with a select side from another era that someone else could select? I'll take the 54-64 side if another old codger will volunteer as my assistant, if someone in their 50's would like to take charge of the 68-78 side?

Im not much cop at this, but it'd be something like....

Bibb, Butt, Manning/Ropati, Newlove, Simpson, Steadman, Fox, Harrison, Clark, Molloy, Smales, Lyman, Tuuta.

Bench: Gibson, Pearson, Casey, Maloney, Grayshon.

I would have an alternative bench of sensible quiet youngsters to calm things down: Rose, Fisher, Burton

I omit Quinn, P.Smith and Bell despite technically qualifying in that it was not their era.

[roversspud]

11 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

 

I would have an alternative bench of sensible quiet youngsters to calm things down: Rose, Fisher, Burton

[Steve Slater]

1 hour ago, POR said:

from original list  would have steve collins and kieth bell higher  and surprised dave busfield didn't make the cut

Two good teams steve but would   have  vaughan  thomas  on  one wing in 54/64  and for 68/78 pick alan rhodes over charlie

I bet you never saw Gary Waterworth? One the other hand I didn't see much of Cyril Woolford. I often correspond with Ron Bailey and he says Cyril was the best Rovers winger, even above Gary Jordan. To me Jordan was the best, even to this day, but then again I never saw Eric Batten, although he was at his absolute best before he came to Fev. The history books also suggest Tommy Askin was something special?

[marklaspalmas]

4 minutes ago, Steve Slater said:

I bet you never saw Gary Waterworth? One the other hand I didn't see much of Cyril Woolford. I often correspond with Ron Bailey and he says Cyril was the best Rovers winger, even above Gary Jordan. To me Jordan was the best, even to this day, but then again I never saw Eric Batten, although he was at his absolute best before he came to Fev. The history books also suggest Tommy Askin was something special?

Tommy was definitely a centre but played on the wing in order to win himself a place on the 1928 tour and did well enough to cover there for GB.

[tms]

22 minutes ago, Steve Slater said:

I bet you never saw Gary Waterworth? One the other hand I didn't see much of Cyril Woolford. I often correspond with Ron Bailey and he says Cyril was the best Rovers winger, even above Gary Jordan. To me Jordan was the best, even to this day, but then again I never saw Eric Batten, although he was at his absolute best before he came to Fev. The history books also suggest Tommy Askin was something special?

i did steve but was only a young  so picked two players  vaughan and alan who I saw  when i was older and understood more about the game 

[jamescolin]

Eric Batten was a class act both as a player and a coach.  I remember one game he played in when he was faced with a centre and a wing man coming straight at him. Instead of going for one of them he turned around and faced his own line then ran parallel with the two players in between them towards the try line. Whilst running he bent low and with his right hand he tackled the centre who was unable to pass to the winger as Batten was between them. I also remember him being faced by an opposing wing who crouched to tackle him and he jumped right over the top of him. I also remember when he arrived as a coach he stopped the players on training day from  going onto the field with a ball. He stated that nobody touched a ball until they were fit to his standard of fitness and that henceforth exercise and strengthening was the first priority. He took a team of local lads and has been castoffs to Wembley in 1952. What a player !

[Steve Slater]

2 hours ago, POR said:

i did steve but was only a young  so picked two players  vaughan and alan who I saw  when i was older and understood more about the game 

It sounds like we're round about the same age P.O.R. Last Thursday, 2nd April, was my 60th anniversary of supporting Rovers, first game at home against Workington, and maybe I remember some of the early players too fondly because I was at an impressionable age? Vaughan was probably Fev's fastest ever player but Waterworth could turn on a sixpence and used to mesmerise full backs, turning them inside out.

[Steve Slater]

40 minutes ago, jamescolin said:

Eric Batten was a class act both as a player and a coach.  I remember one game he played in when he was faced with a centre and a wing man coming straight at him. Instead of going for one of them he turned around and faced his own line then ran parallel with the two players in between them towards the try line. Whilst running he bent low and with his right hand he tackled the centre who was unable to pass to the winger as Batten was between them. I also remember him being faced by an opposing wing who crouched to tackle him and he jumped right over the top of him. I also remember when he arrived as a coach he stopped the players on training day from  going onto the field with a ball. He stated that nobody touched a ball until they were fit to his standard of fitness and that henceforth exercise and strengthening was the first priority. He took a team of local lads and has been castoffs to Wembley in 1952. What a player !

What would be your side from the 1954-64 era Colin? I didn't see any of those who retired before 1960. In fact if I was to take charge of a virtual side it should be the 68-78 side because most of them were my contemporaries.

[tms]

5 minutes ago, Steve Slater said:

It sounds like we're round about the same age P.O.R. Last Thursday, 2nd April, was my 60th anniversary of supporting Rovers, first game at home against Workington, and maybe I remember some of the early players too fondly because I was at an impressionable age? Vaughan was probably Fev's fastest ever player but Waterworth could turn on a sixpence and used to mesmerise full backs, turning them inside out.

similar steve I was in same house and class as your alan at Castleford Technical college   later 

airedale high school  

[jamescolin]

1 hour ago, Steve Slater said:

What would be your side from the 1954-64 era Colin? I didn't see any of those who retired before 1960. In fact if I was to take charge of a virtual side it should be the 68-78 side because most of them were my contemporaries.

Wow Steve, You have the old brain thinking. I will list the ones I remember but not necessarily in their positions as some would have the same position. Here goes: Freddie Miller, Gary Jordan, Don Metcalfe, Gary Cooper,  Mick Clamp, Joe Mullaney, Don Fox,  Malcom Dixon,  Jim Barraclough, Joe Anderson, Colin Clift, Terry Clawson, Norman Hockley, Harry Street, Eric Broom, Jackie Blackburn, Tommy Smales, Graham Westwood, Mick Reynolds, Alan Marchant, Keith Cotton, 

[jamescolin]

3 minutes ago, jamescolin said:

Wow Steve, You have the old brain thinking. I will list the ones I remember but not necessarily in their positions as some would have the same position. Here goes: Freddie Miller, Gary Jordan, Don Metcalfe, Gary Cooper,  Mick Clamp, Joe Mullaney, Don Fox,  Malcom Dixon,  Jim Barraclough, Joe Anderson, Colin Clift, Terry Clawson, Norman Hockey, Harry Street, Eric Broom, Jackie Blackburn, Tommy Smales, Graham Westwood, Mick Reynolds, Alan Marchant, Keith Cotton, Harry Street, Gary Westwood. I hope that gives some idea of the players I remember Steve from that era.

 

[jamescolin]

Sorry I repeated some names.