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Rugby League Coaching Path


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Boring Corona thread...

Do we as a sport provide a decent pathway for coaches? I've often thought the general quality of coaching, particularly lower down the chain, is poor and I'm not sure non-ex-players are encouraged to get involved.

I don't think there is a SL club who doesn't have a top ex-pro as head coach, or at least a decent former ex-pro. Quite often we see that the best players don't always make the best managers, they are completely different skills. Football is a great example of that, Jose Mourinho never kicked a ball but has been one of the most successful managers of the modern era. 

Do we do enough to widen the coaching pool and if not why?

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I’ve no idea what kind of coaching courses there are, like football have UEFA badges ect. I can’t imagine the RFL doing that. In football the referees sit an exam to become referees, in RL they watch a presentation and after are given a whistle and cards and thrown out there 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

I’ve no idea what kind of coaching courses there are, like football have UEFA badges ect. I can’t imagine the RFL doing that. In football the referees sit an exam to become referees, in RL they watch a presentation and after are given a whistle and cards and thrown out there 

Good points. We do suffer from our lack of resources. 

I think it's our biggest weak spot from a quality perspective. I'm not convinced the quality of coaching throughout the system is great in the UK.

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23 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

If you’re talking about the pro game, it’s surely almost impossible to attract non-players to RL coaching roles when there are so few jobs and many go to Australians. 

Agree that there seems to be a preference for Australian head coaches but I can kind of see why. Is it a matter of us just over-hyping them or do they produce better coaches and thus better players? Even then, I don't think there is much of a pathway for non ex-players. Maybe there is no one who would want to do it anyway or we may be a sport where playing at a high level is pre-requisite of being good coach.

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11 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Good points. We do suffer from our lack of resources. 

I think it's our biggest weak spot from a quality perspective. I'm not convinced the quality of coaching throughout the system is great in the UK.

A few current players coach in the NCL, Ash Golding and Jordan Lilley at Stanningley and I think Paul McShane still coaches Hunslet Parkside. Have they had to take an exam to be able to coach at that level? 

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8 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

A few current players coach in the NCL, Ash Golding and Jordan Lilley at Stanningley and I think Paul McShane still coaches Hunslet Parkside. Have they had to take an exam to be able to coach at that level? 

probably. You used to have to take a level 2 course, which was pretty easy and done in a day. They may just be down helping out though in which case they wouldnt need the badge if someone else is the official coach.

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25 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

I’ve no idea what kind of coaching courses there are, like football have UEFA badges ect. I can’t imagine the RFL doing that. In football the referees sit an exam to become referees, in RL they watch a presentation and after are given a whistle and cards and thrown out there 

   I don't think Mourinho is the best example from the world of soccer - as he has gone from one wealthy club to another.

   The UEFA idea is quite good as the managers/coaches from all of Europe are coached to the same system.Interestingly,that Ferguson fella who got a knighthood and was successful did not have those qualifications.More interestingly,is that none of the players who played under him,have gone on to be successful managers themselves.

  I did gain the impression that the NRL coaching course is longer,and more intense than the one in England.

  However,nowadays there are 3 levels in the UK - https://www.rugby-league.com/get_involved/coach/coaching_courses/level_3

  I can only find this for Australia.https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/SISSRGL512A

  It may have been Germany,when that blonde guy who fell over a lot became manager,while he lived in the USA,that he asked the Soccer authority to get more,better,coaches for the youngsters and pay them more than those at a far higher level.Including the national head coach job - his own.

   I also feel better coaches for the younger player pathway(s) would be far more welcome.

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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1 hour ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Good points. We do suffer from our lack of resources. 

I think it's our biggest weak spot from a quality perspective. I'm not convinced the quality of coaching throughout the system is great in the UK.

Agreed but your point about Mourinho was inaccurate. He did play football in the Portuguese leagues, albeit to no great acclaim 

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There’s only 37 jobs in the “professional” game, two are based abroad permanently, one is based abroad part-time and four would require relocation to a different part of the country, with only one of the four roles being full time.

There’s very few roles available at the top level of the game that make it worth pursuing as a full time option. I’m not sure on any official figures for these but I would be interested to see how long coaches last in a job and also how many leave a club and go on to coach again. I imagine the figures would be very small. Even if you also took the number of Academy positions into account you’re looking at a small pool of jobs and I wonder how many are full-time.

That’s specifically looking at the upper echelons of the game though. There’s hundreds of coaches needed at all levels from U7 right through to the elite levels of the non-professional game, the NCL. I’m not sure what the number of coaches we have is at these levels, whether there is enough and the quality of those we do have. I know there’s some current Super League players that coach at amateur level, do people have to be qualified up to a certain level to coach at different levels and do these players have these or given a period of grace to get up to that standard? 

Also, how attainable are RL coaching courses for the every day person? I don’t know and will go and look in a minute but I know a football coach who is stuck at a particular level in coaching because the jump up in price to the next category is quite large and it’s a hell of an outlay on a pretty meagre wage. 

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5 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s only 37 jobs in the “professional” game, two are based abroad permanently, one is based abroad part-time and four would require relocation to a different part of the country, with only one of the four roles being full time.

There’s very few roles available at the top level of the game that make it worth pursuing as a full time option. I’m not sure on any official figures for these but I would be interested to see how long coaches last in a job and also how many leave a club and go on to coach again. I imagine the figures would be very small. Even if you also took the number of Academy positions into account you’re looking at a small pool of jobs and I wonder how many are full-time.

That’s specifically looking at the upper echelons of the game though. There’s hundreds of coaches needed at all levels from U7 right through to the elite levels of the non-professional game, the NCL. I’m not sure what the number of coaches we have is at these levels, whether there is enough and the quality of those we do have. I know there’s some current Super League players that coach at amateur level, do people have to be qualified up to a certain level to coach at different levels and do these players have these or given a period of grace to get up to that standard? 

Also, how attainable are RL coaching courses for the every day person? I don’t know and will go and look in a minute but I know a football coach who is stuck at a particular level in coaching because the jump up in price to the next category is quite large and it’s a hell of an outlay on a pretty meagre wage. 

Only 37 jobs in the professional game? Where did you get that figure from? Most clubs have a number of coaches in their ranks

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5 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

This thread isn’t about head coaches though 

It is. Or at least, partially is. Re-read the OP. Mentions Head Coaches at Super League level and how in Football it appears that some very good coaches haven’t had particularly amazing careers, if any, in that sport and if there is enough done to create a pathway in Rugby League that offers encouragement to those from outside Rugby League circles to take up coaching. 

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I think the better conversation is on the ability of the coaches and how we can improve a coach. I'm not sure on any answers here, but i know that in Singapore, there are a lot of youth RU coaches that get together and share best practices etc. The clubs put a lot of resource into the coaches in terms of their professional development like a business do with their leaders. I can imagine  Championship clubs even looking at these things!

Tex Evans - You'd be a good case study would you not? Other than where you live, why arent you coaching?

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

probably. You used to have to take a level 2 course, which was pretty easy and done in a day. They may just be down helping out though in which case they wouldnt need the badge if someone else is the official coach.

A Level 1 course was 1 day, Level 2, 2 days and Level 3, 4 days plus 1 for tests sometimes.  There was actually a Level 4 which was by invitation only - 1 week.

The system then changed and Coaching quals and Levels were re-branded but have since returned to being named Levels 1 - 4!!  I think there is also a coarse in physio, conditioning , strength.  Before, we just used to bring in a qualified strength/physio or conditioner from a Club - Keith Warner, Dave Fevre, Dennis Wright (passed) etc etc.

It really just a case of applying and getting on the ladder.  You do need to be 'official'.  Much involves work within the Club itself and monitoring by whoever is the the Coach assessor/Coordinator for the Region.

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11 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s only 37 jobs in the “professional” game, two are based abroad permanently, one is based abroad part-time and four would require relocation to a different part of the country, with only one of the four roles being full time.

There’s very few roles available at the top level of the game that make it worth pursuing as a full time option. I’m not sure on any official figures for these but I would be interested to see how long coaches last in a job and also how many leave a club and go on to coach again. I imagine the figures would be very small. Even if you also took the number of Academy positions into account you’re looking at a small pool of jobs and I wonder how many are full-time.

That’s specifically looking at the upper echelons of the game though. There’s hundreds of coaches needed at all levels from U7 right through to the elite levels of the non-professional game, the NCL. I’m not sure what the number of coaches we have is at these levels, whether there is enough and the quality of those we do have. I know there’s some current Super League players that coach at amateur level, do people have to be qualified up to a certain level to coach at different levels and do these players have these or given a period of grace to get up to that standard? 

Also, how attainable are RL coaching courses for the every day person? I don’t know and will go and look in a minute but I know a football coach who is stuck at a particular level in coaching because the jump up in price to the next category is quite large and it’s a hell of an outlay on a pretty meagre wage. 

You would have to be associated with a club and coaching.  For anything other than L1 that is the criteria.

Like anything else, if you are a good coach and can actually show it, applying to become part of a high end amateur or even professional club is well within bounds.  

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The level 2 coaching badge, when I did it recently, was 4 Saturdays over a 5 week period. The first 2 Saturdays consist of the course tutors guiding you through the coaching file, which needs to be fully completed to pass to show that you can plan and coach a session. They usually take you out on to the field and show you how they would put a session together based on a specific skill i.e. catch and pass. All the sessions coaches are required to deliver will be base upon one basic skill i.e. play the ball; front/side tackle; dummy half pass etc. They show you examples of how you should deliver your designated session and the key coaching points which are all explained within the content of the file.

The 3rd Saturday was spent doing a mock session grading, where the course tutors would evaluate the session you have put together and give you any tips on what you need to improve on and will tell you whether you would have passed or not. They will also go through and mark the written work you have done in your file and answer any questions/help you with your final session plan. The qualification I found was all about the delivery rather than the skill topic I found.

The 4th Saturday was assessment day, where an independent coach watches your session and assesses whether your are able to deliver a session competently. The reality of it is that its very difficult to fail, they may request you re-take your assessment at a later date if they are not happy with your delivery, but nobody on my course failed, which was utterly astounding.

Now I'm no Wayne Bennett and I tip my hat to anybody who is prepared to sacrifice their own time to help others, I do it myself and its thoroughly rewarding, the people who do this at all levels of our game make it what it is. However I found it very difficult to take that I ended up with the same qualification as some of the other participants that had clearly never played the game before. Some looked like they had just turned up from the pub and others didn't have a pair of football boots, I think those who haven't played the game should have to do the level 1 course prior to the level 2.

The level 3 qualification is done over 12 months, where the assessors attend your own planned sessions and verify you within a live environment, hopefully I will get to start this once we have a little normality back in the world.

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1 hour ago, Rooboy said:

The level 2 coaching badge, when I did it recently, was 4 Saturdays over a 5 week period. The first 2 Saturdays consist of the course tutors guiding you through the coaching file, which needs to be fully completed to pass to show that you can plan and coach a session. They usually take you out on to the field and show you how they would put a session together based on a specific skill i.e. catch and pass. All the sessions coaches are required to deliver will be base upon one basic skill i.e. play the ball; front/side tackle; dummy half pass etc. They show you examples of how you should deliver your designated session and the key coaching points which are all explained within the content of the file.

The 3rd Saturday was spent doing a mock session grading, where the course tutors would evaluate the session you have put together and give you any tips on what you need to improve on and will tell you whether you would have passed or not. They will also go through and mark the written work you have done in your file and answer any questions/help you with your final session plan. The qualification I found was all about the delivery rather than the skill topic I found.

The 4th Saturday was assessment day, where an independent coach watches your session and assesses whether your are able to deliver a session competently. The reality of it is that its very difficult to fail, they may request you re-take your assessment at a later date if they are not happy with your delivery, but nobody on my course failed, which was utterly astounding.

Now I'm no Wayne Bennett and I tip my hat to anybody who is prepared to sacrifice their own time to help others, I do it myself and its thoroughly rewarding, the people who do this at all levels of our game make it what it is. However I found it very difficult to take that I ended up with the same qualification as some of the other participants that had clearly never played the game before. Some looked like they had just turned up from the pub and others didn't have a pair of football boots, I think those who haven't played the game should have to do the level 1 course prior to the level 2.

The level 3 qualification is done over 12 months, where the assessors attend your own planned sessions and verify you within a live environment, hopefully I will get to start this once we have a little normality back in the world.

Thanks mate.  Good post.lts changed since I was involved and I could write a book on the characters we used to get.  It sounds like a bit of the old L1 added to L2.  

Do not worry about the gradings or what anyone else does.  I can assure you, a big majority do not carry out what they’ve been taught never mind adding their own sway on it.  Just review what you’ve learned and put it into practice but be patient and if you don’t try and drill the players to death and focus on skills and fun, you will do ok.  Good luck.

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14 hours ago, Rooboy said:

The level 2 coaching badge, when I did it recently, was 4 Saturdays over a 5 week period. The first 2 Saturdays consist of the course tutors guiding you through the coaching file, which needs to be fully completed to pass to show that you can plan and coach a session. They usually take you out on to the field and show you how they would put a session together based on a specific skill i.e. catch and pass. All the sessions coaches are required to deliver will be base upon one basic skill i.e. play the ball; front/side tackle; dummy half pass etc. They show you examples of how you should deliver your designated session and the key coaching points which are all explained within the content of the file.

The 3rd Saturday was spent doing a mock session grading, where the course tutors would evaluate the session you have put together and give you any tips on what you need to improve on and will tell you whether you would have passed or not. They will also go through and mark the written work you have done in your file and answer any questions/help you with your final session plan. The qualification I found was all about the delivery rather than the skill topic I found.

The 4th Saturday was assessment day, where an independent coach watches your session and assesses whether your are able to deliver a session competently. The reality of it is that its very difficult to fail, they may request you re-take your assessment at a later date if they are not happy with your delivery, but nobody on my course failed, which was utterly astounding.

Now I'm no Wayne Bennett and I tip my hat to anybody who is prepared to sacrifice their own time to help others, I do it myself and its thoroughly rewarding, the people who do this at all levels of our game make it what it is. However I found it very difficult to take that I ended up with the same qualification as some of the other participants that had clearly never played the game before. Some looked like they had just turned up from the pub and others didn't have a pair of football boots, I think those who haven't played the game should have to do the level 1 course prior to the level 2.

The level 3 qualification is done over 12 months, where the assessors attend your own planned sessions and verify you within a live environment, hopefully I will get to start this once we have a little normality back in the world.

I agree. The level 2 course i've done previously was a farce in it's simplicity.

Still, i dont have many solutions.

Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation:

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas

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13 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Thanks mate.  Good post.lts changed since I was involved and I could write a book on the characters we used to get.  It sounds like a bit of the old L1 added to L2.  

Do not worry about the gradings or what anyone else does.  I can assure you, a big majority do not carry out what they’ve been taught never mind adding their own sway on it.  Just review what you’ve learned and put it into practice but be patient and if you don’t try and drill the players to death and focus on skills and fun, you will do ok.  Good luck.

I'm not fully sure what the L1 entails, I think its only done over 1 day and I dont think there are any gradings as such. I think this should be specifically aimed at the parent with little or no playing experience who wants to help out at his son/daughters community club, you'll learn enough from the other coaches around you and from your own mistakes to get by and make it enjoyable to do a good job.

TBH I just wanted my qualification so I could get up the ladder a little bit which I have managed to do. I suppose I have my own philosophies on the game and what I believe is the best way of coaching, I'm happy to tap in to what I can learn from other/more experienced coaches and learn from my own experiences/mistakes.

One thing I would add is that coaching is a completely different mentality to playing all together, as I found early on in the piece. I noticed in some of the previous comments people questioning why the top players rarely coach? As a player you turn up to where you need to be at certain times/places, with the kit you need and thats about it. As a coach your constantly thinking about the last performance and the next session, what went well? What didn't go well? Where do we need to improve? How can we improve in that area? the list is endless, and thats before you've touched a ball.

Im guessing the top players cant always process that information, they know what they need to do and they know how to do it, but they cant always explain it and they certainly do not want the responsibility of being in charge of it. Playing to coaching is a big eye opener!

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On 05/04/2020 at 23:24, Hela Wigmen said:

Just checked, it’s approx. £1,200 to get up to Level 3. There’s no pricing listed on the Level 4 course page on the RFL site. It’s not too bad tbh. 

It's cheaper than most other sports. Courses are signed off by UK Sport. You need a level 2 to take most teams onto a park as a Competition ( and insurance ) requirement at Community level.

Go to  the Rugby-League.com  website.  Check the menu and then resources. It contains significant materials to assist  coaches and the Performance Department I believe are to put much more stuff on line  ( through 'Hive ' ? )  in the near future

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2 minutes ago, del capo said:

It's cheaper than most other sports. Courses are signed off by UK Sport. You need a level 2 to take most teams onto a park as a Competition ( and insurance ) requirement at Community level.

Go to  the Rugby-League.com  website.  Check the menu and then resources. It contains significant materials to assist  coaches and the Performance Department I believe are to put much more stuff on line  ( through 'Hive ' ? )  in the near future

Sorry should have added you get to the coaching stuff first by using  ' Get involved '  from the main menu.....

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2 hours ago, Rooboy said:

I'm not fully sure what the L1 entails, I think its only done over 1 day and I dont think there are any gradings as such. I think this should be specifically aimed at the parent with little or no playing experience who wants to help out at his son/daughters community club, you'll learn enough from the other coaches around you and from your own mistakes to get by and make it enjoyable to do a good job.

TBH I just wanted my qualification so I could get up the ladder a little bit which I have managed to do. I suppose I have my own philosophies on the game and what I believe is the best way of coaching, I'm happy to tap in to what I can learn from other/more experienced coaches and learn from my own experiences/mistakes.

One thing I would add is that coaching is a completely different mentality to playing all together, as I found early on in the piece. I noticed in some of the previous comments people questioning why the top players rarely coach? As a player you turn up to where you need to be at certain times/places, with the kit you need and thats about it. As a coach your constantly thinking about the last performance and the next session, what went well? What didn't go well? Where do we need to improve? How can we improve in that area? the list is endless, and thats before you've touched a ball.

Im guessing the top players cant always process that information, they know what they need to do and they know how to do it, but they cant always explain it and they certainly do not want the responsibility of being in charge of it. Playing to coaching is a big eye opener!

The two 'tips' i could give would be, firstly, not to revert to the ways you were coached but choose your own path.  If you just use former coaches ways you are already regressing.  Blend your ways with what youve been taught (RFL) and some innovation.  Like I said, be patient, use idiot cards/notes as not everyone can remember what the aim is or what they have to coach to do in a session and focus on fun.

Secondly, you will only progress as a coach if you recognise how to get small gains.  'Winning' in other ways in training and match day.  A player putting in just 3 or 4 tackles a game will not go from that level up to 20 in a heartbeat.  Work on technique, positioning and then getting 5 tackles.  Million ways to do it and it takes time.

Good luck anyway and it will be good to see what your progress has been in a year or so.

 

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