Red Star Belgrade

[Eddie]

RSB have announced that they’re not aiming to get into League One now but are instead looking at a European club competition. It doesn’t say which clubs / countries that might involve but it could be interesting;

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/red-star-belgrade-not-bidding-for-league-1-entry-in-2021/

[Whippet13]

Sensible approach I think. There is a lot going on in Greece now that their domestic political situation has improved and the game is also springing up in a number of south eastern European countries. Some sort of expanded/revamped version of the Balkan Super League changed into a wider Euro-comp perhaps.

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Sensible approach I think. There is a lot going on in Greece now that their domestic political situation has improved and the game is also springing up in a number of south eastern European countries. Some sort of expanded/revamped version of the Balkan Super League changed into a wider Euro-comp perhaps.

Would be good if it gets going. Having Valencia in L1 makes sense to me as it’s so easy and cheap to get there from England, the same would go for an Amsterdam club, but Belgrade is a different matter. 

[welshmagpie]

A European league based on capitals only, which European capitals have or or are suitably surrounded by some rugby league activity?

 

here’s my 8 

- Moscow

- Kiev

- Belgrade 

- Amsterdam

- Oslo

- Ankara

- Prague

- Athens

7 rounds

Final before a Catalans super league game.

[Hela Wigmen]

Like the sound of this. It’s probably better for these clubs and their respective nations than them joining League One currently. It should hopefully create a pathway for clubs in Serbia, Greece etc to get to a standard before hopefully joining up with this proposed league. 

[yanto]

26 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

A European league based on capitals only, which European capitals have or or are suitably surrounded by some rugby league activity?

 

here’s my 8 

- Moscow

- Kiev

- Belgrade 

- Amsterdam

- Oslo

- Ankara

- Prague

- Athens

7 rounds

Final before a Catalans super league game.

The reality is unless someone comes along with a big,big and I mean Massive  bag of money not one of the above mentioned clubs could even afford the estimated 30,000 euro (minimum) a year travel / accomodation expenses .This is based on four away games to their nearest rivals. Fly in friday evening,one nights hotel and fly out within two or three hours after the game .

Then if they are looking to make it a semi pro competition you have players wages,loss of earnings to factor in.

Pay a minimum squad  of  twenty players 150 euro per game  then thats a wage bill of 21,000  with another 25-30% on top for tax insurance etc etc .

Now we are up to an estimate of plus 51,000 a year.

Add on the cost of putting on three home fixtures and your topping 60,000 euro Minimum per club !!!!

So based on those minimum figures x seven clubs @ 420,000 euro a year to set up 

This is a massive undertaking.

Impossible dream and the figures just dont add up.

 

The Balkan SL was a  brave step forward but even as a regional league it has retracted rather than expanded.

The Turkish,Greek,Italian,Albanian,two Bosnian and even two Belgrade clubs seem to have left the competition.

Main factor ??

MONEY or lack of it .

If a regional competition falters after two seasons I just cant see a European wide competition at this level taking off.

To much expense, to many logistics and not enough quality to attract sufficent sponsorship. 

[Eddie]

50 minutes ago, yanto said:

The reality is unless someone comes along with a big,big and I mean Massive  bag of money not one of the above mentioned clubs could even afford the estimated 30,000 euro (minimum) a year travel / accomodation expenses .This is based on four away games to their nearest rivals. Fly in friday evening,one nights hotel and fly out within two or three hours after the game .

Then if they are looking to make it a semi pro competition you have players wages,loss of earnings to factor in.

Pay a minimum squad  of  twenty players 150 euro per game  then thats a wage bill of 21,000  with another 25-30% on top for tax insurance etc etc .

Now we are up to an estimate of plus 51,000 a year.

Add on the cost of putting on three home fixtures and your topping 60,000 euro Minimum per club !!!!

So based on those minimum figures x seven clubs @ 420,000 euro a year to set up 

This is a massive undertaking.

Impossible dream and the figures just dont add up.

 

The Balkan SL was a  brave step forward but even as a regional league it has retracted rather than expanded.

The Turkish,Greek,Italian,Albanian,two Bosnian and even two Belgrade clubs seem to have left the competition.

Main factor ??

MONEY or lack of it .

If a regional competition falters after two seasons I just cant see a European wide competition at this level taking off.

To much expense, to many logistics and not enough quality to attract sufficent sponsorship. 

That’s the spirit, they should definitely give up on the idea as you know so much about their finances. 

[langpark]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That’s the spirit, they should definitely give up on the idea as you know so much about their finances. 

That's not what he is saying, but just offering a dose of reality.  I think something between the old BSL format and a 'Euro' comp could have a fighting chance of working.  For example, start small, and in a confined area, I'm talking 6 teams:  2 Belgrade, 2 Athens, 2 Istanbul.  Here are a few things to note about this format:

- play each team once home/away

- this gives each team a total of 10 matches, but only 4 away trips, making it a bit more viable

- every team gets 2 local derbies per season

- these are areas that have proven ongoing activity and could  sustain teams

Now, even this idea, would still need to be well-financed, but I think it is a good compromise between organic and articial growth.  Also, this competition would run parallel to their existing local competitions, so with these 10 matches, plus another dozen or so in their local leagues, most of the (top) players will be getting 20 or more matches a season. 

Also, for these matches only, I would allow clubs to call on any player in the country.  So for example, Red Star can call on players from 3 other clubs in Serbia, and Partizan could call on players from the other 3, and so on in each country, just to make these top 6 even stronger.  Plus (if finance allows) ideally, 3 imports per team would be a brilliant addition.  Let's say, NCL (or former League One) standard players, but also players with coaching qualities.  Would be a great boost for these local players and their development.

Now this is a far more conservative idea than the one proposed above, but even this is a really long shot based on where we are right now.

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, langpark said:

That's not what he is saying, but just offering a dose of reality.  I think something between the old BSL format and a 'Euro' comp could have a fighting chance of working.  For example, start small, and in a confined area, I'm talking 6 teams:  2 Belgrade, 2 Athens, 2 Istanbul.  Here are a few things to note about this format:

- play each team once home/away

- this gives each team a total of 10 matches, but only 4 away trips, making it a bit more viable

- every team gets 2 local derbies per season

- these are areas that have proven ongoing activity and could  sustain teams

Now, even this idea, would still need to be well-financed, but I think it is a good compromise between organic and articial growth.  Also, this competition would run parallel to their existing local competitions, so with these 10 matches, plus another dozen or so in their local leagues, most of the (top) players will be getting 20 or more matches a season. 

Also, for these matches only, I would allow clubs to call on any player in the country.  So for example, Red Star can call on players from 3 other clubs in Serbia, and Partizan could call on players from the other 3, and so on in each country, just to make these top 6 even stronger.  Plus (if finance allows) ideally, 3 imports per team would be a brilliant addition.  Let's say, NCL (or former League One) standard players, but also players with coaching qualities.  Would be a great boost for these local players and their development.

Now this is a far more conservative idea than the one proposed above, but even this is a really long shot based on where we are right now.

None of us have any idea about who Red Star might be talking to about this or what the potential financial situation is, so it’s not really our place to say they don’t and won’t have the finances to do stuff as we know nothing about it. 
 

Why two from Athens though? Greece’s top team are from Rhodes.  

[langpark]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

None of us have any idea about who Red Star might be talking to about this or what the potential financial situation is, so it’s not really our place to say they don’t and won’t have the finances to do stuff as we know nothing about it. 
 

Why two from Athens though? Greece’s top team are from Rhodes.  

Simple, logistics.  Getting to and from Rhodes is not easy (and not cheap) from Belgrade and Istanbul, which is why I have stuck to the main hubs of the region.  As I mentioned though, in this format, Rhodes players could play for one of the Athens teams.  In Serbia, Radnicki Nis players could play for a Belgrade club etc. etc.

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 hours ago, yanto said:

The reality is unless someone comes along with a big,big and I mean Massive  bag of money not one of the above mentioned clubs could even afford the estimated 30,000 euro (minimum) a year travel / accomodation expenses .This is based on four away games to their nearest rivals. Fly in friday evening,one nights hotel and fly out within two or three hours after the game .

Then if they are looking to make it a semi pro competition you have players wages,loss of earnings to factor in.

Pay a minimum squad  of  twenty players 150 euro per game  then thats a wage bill of 21,000  with another 25-30% on top for tax insurance etc etc .

Now we are up to an estimate of plus 51,000 a year.

Add on the cost of putting on three home fixtures and your topping 60,000 euro Minimum per club !!!!

So based on those minimum figures x seven clubs @ 420,000 euro a year to set up 

This is a massive undertaking.

Impossible dream and the figures just dont add up.

 

The Balkan SL was a  brave step forward but even as a regional league it has retracted rather than expanded.

The Turkish,Greek,Italian,Albanian,two Bosnian and even two Belgrade clubs seem to have left the competition.

Main factor ??

MONEY or lack of it .

If a regional competition falters after two seasons I just cant see a European wide competition at this level taking off.

To much expense, to many logistics and not enough quality to attract sufficent sponsorship. 

Hi Yanto

Good to see some realism (Not knocking ideas as they are always welcome to see) however Europe is a pretty big place local leagues and Internationals are the way to go

 

Paul

[Number 16]

6 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Good to see some realism (Not knocking ideas as they are always welcome to see) however Europe is a pretty big place local leagues and Internationals are the way to go 

Agreed. The national federations, supported by RLEF should be focusing on developing and embedding stable domestic leagues and youth programmes with a competitive and vibrant international scene as the pinnacle. 

Continent-wide leagues would do little more than fill seats for Wizzair and beds for Ibis. 

No a sensible use of limited resources. 

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Agreed. The national federations, supported by RLEF should be focusing on developing and embedding stable domestic leagues and youth programmes with a competitive and vibrant international scene as the pinnacle. 

Continent-wide leagues would do little more than fill seats for Wizzair and beds for Ibis. 

No a sensible use of limited resources. 

Probably best to wait until they say what they have in mind, I doubt they’re suggesting Oslo vs Kiev on a Tuesday night. 

[yanto]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

That’s the spirit, they should definitely give up on the idea as you know so much about their finances. 

I know nowt about the finances of Red Star, Prague, Oslo etc etc but I would hazard a guess I have a little more insight into how European rugby is ticking along than you think. I also have a bit of reality in my mind set. Estimates are based on actual costs at todays prices using Amsterdam as an example. 

Oh and I do know the financial situation of all of the Dutch clubs and I'm 95% sure most of the other clubs in Europe are in a similar situation. 

Like you, just putting an opinion over. You disagree.... that's what these boards are about.

Opinions 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

4 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

A European league based on capitals only, which European capitals have or or are suitably surrounded by some rugby league activity?

 

here’s my 8 

- Moscow

- Kiev

- Belgrade 

- Amsterdam

- Oslo

- Ankara

- Prague

- Athens

7 rounds

Final before a Catalans super league game.

The distances are too far to travel without a multi million pound tv deal. 

Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia, Hungary and Greece all border with each other and could potentially form a competition, where most teams can travel by coach and play in a day, this keeps costs down.

It would make sense for it to start as an international competition, say the Adriatic Cup.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, yanto said:

I know nowt about the finances of Red Star, Prague, Oslo etc etc but I would hazard a guess I have a little more insight into how European rugby is ticking along than you think. I also have a bit of reality in my mind set. Estimates are based on actual costs at todays prices using Amsterdam as an example. 

Oh and I do know the financial situation of all of the Dutch clubs and I'm 95% sure most of the other clubs in Europe are in a similar situation. 

Like you, just putting an opinion over. You disagree.... that's what these boards are about.

Opinions 

How are the finances of Dutch clubs? Do you think there’s any scope for the game there to expand beyond the current five (?) clubs? 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The distances are too far to travel without a multi million pound tv deal. 

Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia, Hungary and Greece all border with each other and could potentially form a competition, where most teams can travel by coach and play in a day, this keeps costs down.

It would make sense for it to start as an international competition, say the Adriatic Cup.

Athens to Budapest is about 1,000 miles, I’d hate to be on that return trip on a coach!

[The Great Dane]

It'll be interesting to see what kind of backing they can get for this concept and where it's coming from.

If they can get good support for the concept then it could be a great thing, if it's effectively going to be a park footy competition where the players are expected to cover their own expenses it's probably not going to last long.

Good luck to them though.

[Hela Wigmen]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Athens to Budapest is about 1,000 miles, I’d hate to be on that return trip on a coach!

That would be a hell of a drinking session. 

[Hela Wigmen]

Is now, given the current pandemic, the right time to be talking of creating a multi-national league? It sounds good in principle but there’s loads of factors to consider before it becomes anything close to viable. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Athens to Budapest is about 1,000 miles, I’d hate to be on that return trip on a coach!

Hence why I said most, and it. Doesn’t necessarily have to be in the capital city 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Hence why I said most, and it. Doesn’t necessarily have to be in the capital city 

Definitely doesn’t, as we know ourselves the capital isn’t always the best place for a RL team!

[langpark]

3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Hence why I said most, and it. Doesn’t necessarily have to be in the capital city 

I didn't want to mention it, but that wasn't the most off-target comment you made there, this was:  Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia, Hungary and Greece all border with each other.  And wanting to call it 'Adriatic Cup' also makes me question when you might have last looked at a map.

[Pulga]

Looks like Russian clubs are beginning to talk about entering the CC again. It's mentioned on the latest Chasing Kangaroos.

[Bob8]

On 07/04/2020 at 13:23, langpark said:

That's not what he is saying, but just offering a dose of reality.  I think something between the old BSL format and a 'Euro' comp could have a fighting chance of working.  For example, start small, and in a confined area, I'm talking 6 teams:  2 Belgrade, 2 Athens, 2 Istanbul.  Here are a few things to note about this format:

- play each team once home/away

- this gives each team a total of 10 matches, but only 4 away trips, making it a bit more viable

- every team gets 2 local derbies per season

- these are areas that have proven ongoing activity and could  sustain teams

Now, even this idea, would still need to be well-financed, but I think it is a good compromise between organic and articial growth.  Also, this competition would run parallel to their existing local competitions, so with these 10 matches, plus another dozen or so in their local leagues, most of the (top) players will be getting 20 or more matches a season. 

Also, for these matches only, I would allow clubs to call on any player in the country.  So for example, Red Star can call on players from 3 other clubs in Serbia, and Partizan could call on players from the other 3, and so on in each country, just to make these top 6 even stronger.  Plus (if finance allows) ideally, 3 imports per team would be a brilliant addition.  Let's say, NCL (or former League One) standard players, but also players with coaching qualities.  Would be a great boost for these local players and their development.

Now this is a far more conservative idea than the one proposed above, but even this is a really long shot based on where we are right now.

Indeed. 

The approach must not be finding a great idea and then trying to get the money for it. Instead, find the money and try to get a great idea for it.