Controversial change

[Mr Plow]

Don’t know if anyone on here is subscribed to rugbugleague.com Long Reads on Patreon but there was a good article with Ken Jones, former business consultant at the RFL, about how the sport should move forward after this crisis.

He suggested a whole game board above the RFL and a Super League, Championship and community general managers as well as scrapping League 1, end expansion and reintroduce licensing 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/35737277

[Hela Wigmen]

Sorry if I misunderstand, a Super League and then a Championship made up of current Championship and League One sides?

[Mr Plow]

8 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Sorry if I misunderstand, a Super League and then a Championship made up of current Championship and League One sides?

Yeah an expanded Championship. Either some clubs turn amateur or a 2 conferences

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Mr Plow said:

Yeah an expanded Championship. Either some clubs turn amateur or a 2 conferences

Interesting. 

The disparity at Championship level is quite big as it is, so throwing some of the smaller sides into the mix could make it far greater. 

[paulwalker71]

Yeah the article is behind a paywall of course (I did know what Patreon was)

I appreciate it wouldn't be right to cut and paste, but could you summarise his argument as to why we should abandon expansion?

[Mr Plow]

22 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Yeah the article is behind a paywall of course (I did know what Patreon was)

I appreciate it wouldn't be right to cut and paste, but could you summarise his argument as to why we should abandon expansion?

He said “Halt and remove the expansion strategy” which to me implies getting rid of expansion clubs. Then goes on to say there has been no return on investment (No tv deal ect) and it hasn’t been a success. 
 

Problem with expansion is there has never been a strategy. People have approached the RFL and they have just said yes to anyone. I’d focus on France, Newcastle and Canada for now

[Mr Plow]

32 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Interesting. 

The disparity at Championship level is quite big as it is, so throwing some of the smaller sides into the mix could make it far greater. 

If you were being strategic, how many L1 clubs would you keep? Workington, Newcastle, Doncaster, Crusaders maybe?

[Hela Wigmen]

23 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

If you were being strategic, how many L1 clubs would you keep? Workington, Newcastle, Doncaster, Crusaders maybe?

All of them. No club should be discriminated on purely on their postcode. 

[Hela Wigmen]

29 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

He said “Halt and remove the expansion strategy” which to me implies getting rid of expansion clubs. Then goes on to say there has been no return on investment (No tv deal ect) and it hasn’t been a success. 
 

Problem with expansion is there has never been a strategy. People have approached the RFL and they have just said yes to anyone. I’d focus on France, Newcastle and Canada for now

What strategy is he referring to? There simply isn’t one. This North American expansion we’ve seen is one man’s dream, which he’s achieved/achieving. This isn’t the work of The RFL. 

[Robthegasman]

I cannot access the article.

What precisely is he saying should happen?

Is he saying as some are suggesting that certain clubs should cease to exist or become amateur clubs?

Is he suggesting that there should only be say one club in any certain area?

[Mr Plow]

3 minutes ago, Robthegasman said:

I cannot access the article.

What precisely is he saying should happen?

Is he saying as some are suggesting that certain clubs should cease to exist or become amateur clubs?

Is he suggesting that there should only be say one club in any certain area?

It’s a number of things, nothing too specific about what should happen to clubs. Mostly about the governance being fairer so for example having an Whole Game Board above the RFL that makes decisions for the whole game rather than clubs voting like turkeys voting for xmas

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

He said “Halt and remove the expansion strategy” which to me implies getting rid of expansion clubs. Then goes on to say there has been no return on investment (No tv deal ect) and it hasn’t been a success. 
 

Problem with expansion is there has never been a strategy. People have approached the RFL and they have just said yes to anyone. I’d focus on France, Newcastle and Canada for now

They haven’t said yes to everyone, Manchester Rangers for a start. 
 

Why do you think the RFL should focus on France and what do you mean by that?

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

If you were being strategic, how many L1 clubs would you keep? Workington, Newcastle, Doncaster, Crusaders maybe?

I can see an argument for Skolars, Cov and WWR being in the Southern Conference (which would itself be strengthened by them) until they can strengthen further, particularly with the distances they have to travel, but are you suggesting you’d just close down Rochdale and Hunslet? What have they done wrong?

[Mr Plow]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

They haven’t said yes to everyone, Manchester Rangers for a start. 
 

Why do you think the RFL should focus on France and what do you mean by that?

They’ve said yes to Toronto, Catalans, Crusdaders ect ect

Focus on areas that already have a rl presence such as France, Cumbria, Newcastle, even Canada but I’d wait to see how Toronto and Ottawa get on before committing anything major to North America

[Mr Plow]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I can see an argument for Skolars, Cov and WWR being in the Southern Conference (which would itself be strengthened by them) until they can strengthen further, particularly with the distances they have to travel, but are you suggesting you’d just close down Rochdale and Hunslet? What have they done wrong?

I agree with what you say about Skolars, Coventry ect.

Hunslet are a good example. What’s the point of them being in the pro leagues? They live in the shadow of Leeds, have small crowds and an ageing fan base (you’d assume most kids want to watch Leeds and SL).
 

Clubs like that haven’t done anything wrong but When you look at the future there will be less money in the game and it won’t be able to sustain so many pro clubs so it makes sense for small clubs to turn amateur

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

I agree with what you say about Skolars, Coventry ect.

Hunslet are a good example. What’s the point of them being in the pro leagues? They live in the shadow of Leeds, have small crowds and an ageing fan base (you’d assume most kids want to watch Leeds and SL).
 

Clubs like that haven’t done anything wrong but When you look at the future there will be less money in the game and it won’t be able to sustain so many pro clubs so it makes sense for small clubs to turn amateur

The point of them being in the pro leagues is that they want to be there, they want to be semi pro and are holding their own at that level; there is no reason for them not to be there. 

[Mr Plow]

50 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The point of them being in the pro leagues is that they want to be there, they want to be semi pro and are holding their own at that level; there is no reason for them not to be there. 

But what if in the near future the sport can’t afford to have 36 pro clubs? Some will have to fold or turn amateur. 

[Robthegasman]

2 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

It’s a number of things, nothing too specific about what should happen to clubs. Mostly about the governance being fairer so for example having an Whole Game Board above the RFL that makes decisions for the whole game rather than clubs voting like turkeys voting for xmas

That is a good slide in fairness there.

Not sure on some of the abbreviations such as NED’s at the top of the tree.And not too sure what COM means either.

 I think there are some good ideas there in all honesty and I certainly agree that there should be a Super League and a Championship General Manager etc with specific defined roles for those divisions.
 

It certainly suggests to me that Championship and Championship 1 would become one division with however many clubs.I suspect number wise there will be less than 20 clubs in it as opposed to the current combined(I think)25 clubs.

The question is where do the individual clubs we have now fit into it all and into what categories/divisions especially outside of Super League?

What will the relevant criteria be?

 

 

 

[Robthegasman]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

I can see an argument for Skolars, Cov and WWR being in the Southern Conference (which would itself be strengthened by them) until they can strengthen further, particularly with the distances they have to travel, but are you suggesting you’d just close down Rochdale and Hunslet? What have they done wrong?

I think Crusaders and West Wales Raiders would amalgamate and probably rename as something like say Club Wales XIII and either relocate to say Newport or Cardiff or remain in Wrexham which to be fair is not too far from areas where there are players ie the Liverpool,Merseyside,Manchester and Lancs area.

And maybe they would play some games on the road in say South Wales in the big towns or cities there.

[Leyther_Matt]

2 minutes ago, Robthegasman said:

I think Crusaders and West Wales Raiders would amalgamate and probably rename as something like say Club Wales XIII and either relocate to say Newport or Cardiff or remain in Wrexham which to be fair is not too far from areas where there are players ie the Liverpool,Merseyside,Manchester and Lancs area.

And maybe they would play some games on the road in say South Wales in the big towns or cities there.

I’d have thought there is far too much of a distance between the respective Welsh clubs to have any sort of effective link up. It makes Barrow to Workington look like a short jaunt down the motorway. 

[Robthegasman]

2 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I’d have thought there is far too much of a distance between the respective Welsh clubs to have any sort of effective link up. It makes Barrow to Workington look like a short jaunt down the motorway. 

True it is a fair old trek from North to South Wales.

I think that Glamorgan Cricket Club have played games in North Wales during the cricket season all the same,hence the suggestion.

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

But what if in the near future the sport can’t afford to have 36 pro clubs? Some will have to fold or turn amateur. 

Obviously, but as long as Hunslet can afford to be there they will be. 

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

I think Crusaders and West Wales Raiders would amalgamate and probably rename as something like say Club Wales XIII and either relocate to say Newport or Cardiff or remain in Wrexham which to be fair is not too far from areas where there are players ie the Liverpool,Merseyside,Manchester and Lancs area.

And maybe they would play some games on the road in say South Wales in the big towns or cities there.

Wrexham to Llanelli is over 3 hours in a car, other than the fact they are both Welsh there’s no more reason for them to merge than there is Coventry and Skolars, or Workington and Hunslet. 

[Big Picture]

10 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Yeah the article is behind a paywall of course (I did know what Patreon was)

I appreciate it wouldn't be right to cut and paste, but could you summarise his argument as to why we should abandon expansion?

It's what the RFL has always done whenever push came to shove, no matter how much it damaged the game and its image at the time.

[Leyther_Matt]

7 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

True it is a fair old trek from North to South Wales.

I think that Glamorgan Cricket Club have played games in North Wales during the cricket season all the same, hence the suggestion.

As you say, Crusaders will always be close enough to the heartlands to draw from the usual player pool so they’ll be fine. Meanwhile, it’s vital that the Raiders still exist to provide a player pathway in South Wales, even bearing in mind the hour it takes to drive from Cardiff to Llanelli.

I think there will need to be a certain amount of joined up thinking in terms of pooling resources between clubs, but that doesn’t need to be at the expense of clubs. Indeed, with so many of the League One clubs not tied down to maintaining grounds or paying out on lengthy contracts, they might actually come out of this in better shape than some of the big boys.