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Clubs reject games behind closed doors


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Just for clarity now that Scotchy has started to make his usual strawman arguments and now wants to backtrack on what he has said for 4 pages:

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The reality that physiotherapists and doctors of sports medicine are now suddenly working night and day in ICU and respiratory medicine? Its just not happening mate. 

 

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Let me just say, the clubs have missed a huge PR open goal here.

Why keep secret all the employees they have who have gone to work as ICU Doctors?

Do you accept you were wrong in making these statements? A simple yes or no will suffice.

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4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The choice between behind closed doors and in front of crowds is a false one. 

The choice is going to be behind closed doors and or not at all. 

It's obvious that there is going to be a period of time when the 75-100 people absolutely necessary to play a game are able to gather but thousands of fans cant. 

And even when we are allowed crowds to gather there is a question of how quickly people will want to. There is likely to be a cultural change, at least for a little while of people not really wanting to be in crowds. 

There is also a big risk that even when we can have crowds that isnt permanent, with relaxing and imposing of social distancing conditions. 

The reliance on tv is only going to grow and we need a focus on creating a more robust and flexible made for tv product. Pretty urgently

That could be your best ever post Scotchy.

Clearly there is going to be a relaxing of some restrictions by end of May. This may well allow 100 people to be present, more than enough to stage a game.

Sky will make the decision for us. They have paid to the end of June as a gesture of goodwill. It is reasonable to suggest they will require some reciprocation at some point. If it is a choice of payment for games without spectators or no payment at all we will have games with no spectators.

Other sports will take advantage , if RL chooses not to then they will place themselves even further down the queue.

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31 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What is really simple is that you said that physiotherapists and doctors of sports medicine are not working in ICU and respiratory medicine for the NHS supporting the virus efforts.

You have been proved wrong with conclusive evidence by multiple people.

I know you won't heed my advice but you would do well to hold up your hands for once and say you were wrong about something; you will get far more respect and get far more credibility in the next conversation.

You were quite correct. He has ignored you. 

Over recent weeks I have seen plenty of these threads that I was going to post in then realised they consisted of Scotchy arguing black is white so have simply not bothered posting and have instead let someone else waste their time. Now and again though you think you can have a reasoned discussion because the evidence is so overwhelming but no, it just doesn't happen.

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7 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

If we had a 12 month furlough, then the consequences to society would be far greater. The government would be bankrupt, which would have far greater economic, societal and health impact the current pandemic. So it would be more terrible 

How many times do I have to say

 that I am talking about Rugby League on the Rugby League forum not on the Any Other Business/ Any other Sprts or the Politics forums.

My comment was if we had to have a 12 month furlough to rugby league it would not be the end of the world. 

Your comment above would indeed be true IF it was on either the Any othe Business /Any other Sports or the Political threads. BUT IT ISN'T  it is on the RUGBY LEAGUE Forum

This whole thread is " The General RUGBY LEAGUE Forum. I take that to mean that we are discussing rugby league NOT the impact that this pestilence is having on society or the economy.  

I hope I am clear. If not I don't know how to make it clearer.

 

Ron Banks

Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow

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5 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

That could be your best ever post Scotchy.

Clearly there is going to be a relaxing of some restrictions by end of May. This may well allow 100 people to be present, more than enough to stage a game.

Sky will make the decision for us. They have paid to the end of June as a gesture of goodwill. It is reasonable to suggest they will require some reciprocation at some point. If it is a choice of payment for games without spectators or no payment at all we will have games with no spectators.

Other sports will take advantage , if RL chooses not to then they will place themselves even further down the queue.

I would think that would need to be agreed by players as well as clubs.  Some young, fit blokes with families might just make a decision to wait, especially if their children have inherent thoracic problems.

This will not be the easy decision you make out and if a decision is made, that ends in an infection, then that could have just as big an effect on the game from various angles including media.

Which other sports would take advantage?  It is in Sky’s interests to ensure they present a quality product that is delivered in an ethical way.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

The guys have done a wonderful job setting up gate 41. 

But I can tell you specifically that the senior nurses and doctors at mid Yorks arent desperately in need of holidays or rest. They are managing workload wonderfully.

You can decide it for them if you want. I can ask them

You do tend to sound ridiculously delusional  when proved wrong.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

That's great to see. Here is a club doctor doing similar. I'm sure there are countless examples and people that are doing it without wishing to be known too:

Like all club doctors, looking after a squad of athletes is only a small part of his hectic weekly workload.

In Raynor’s case, the majority of his time is spent at Pinderfields Hospital in Wakefield.

As an emergency medicine doctor currently on a rotation in intensive care, he is, of course, on the frontline in the fight against coronavirus. In an exclusive interview with The Yorkshire Post, the 31-year-old said: “The last few weeks have been the calm before the storm – you can feel it coming.

“We’ve not got hit incredibly hard yet. But it is busying up.

“The (Mid Yorkshire Hospitals NHS) Trust has actually genuinely done really good preparation work; it’s been quite good to see how all bureaucracy and stuff you can normally expect with any big organisation seems to have just gone out of the window.

“Things that need to be done are just getting done quickly.

“We’ve restructured the hospital and designated coronavirus wards, expanded the intensive care capacity massively, had walls constructed.... and it all just happened so swiftly.

“We’re working a lot more hours as you can imagine, a lot more weekends and nights just to make sure it’s staffed properly and that’s the junior doctors but also all the consultants.

“Throughout, the nursing staff and everyone have all stepped up. Everyone has pulled together and we’re braced for the storm.”

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/meet-castleford-tigers-doctor-frontline-fight-against-coronavirus-2529236

Thanks for that boys he nearly had me thinking I was doing a "scotchy" and making it all up,I'm off now to phone my mate (the physio) just to check he's still real.

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You know what Scotchy, you may or may not be right in your assertion that the lack of medical staff will not be an issue in the potential restart of the RL season.

But you are making a complete knob of yourself backing it up.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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41 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Considering we are not yet even at the peak, talk of a return to action behind closed doors or not is premature. Obviously, it makes sense for planning to start though.

Health will rightly always come above sport, however negative the consequences on a sport may be. So much is going to depend on Sky's input. 

I wouldn't rule out that they insist on the completion of the season / fulfilment of their contractual right to games which may lead to a winter season. At some point going forward, we may need a centenary-like season to reset the calendar. My fear is the impact of RLWC 2021, which is a critical event for the sport going forward in the UK.

We have been in lock-down for three weeks with another three or four weeks more than likely. The number of new infections is dropping in many, many places around the world which suggests a peak has passed. As you cannot die from CV unless actually infected with it a fall in deaths therefore has to follow in the very near future. 

"Talk" of a return is not premature. RL , Sky and associated activities are part of the economy. A return needs to be planned and prepared adequately which cannot be achieved without talking.

 

4 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I would think that would need to be agreed by players as well as clubs.  Some young, fit blokes with families might just make a decision to wait, especially if their children have inherent thoracic problems.

This will not be the easy decision you make out and if a decision is made, that ends in an infection, then that could have just as big an effect on the game from various angles including media.

Which other sports would take advantage?  It is in Sky’s interests to ensure they present a quality product that is delivered in an ethical way.

 

It might boil down to having a club or no club, contract or no contract , job or no job. There is no other income for RL at this time and furlough does not prevent redundancy.  Sky have intimated that whilst they are prepared to write off money paid so far they will not be paying the Premier League anymore money without a resumption. There is no reason RL should be any different. I only have a small sample but the RL players I have interacted with are not hiding in their bedrooms with their teddies waiting for the danger to pass. They are eager to resume asap. Hundreds of thousands of people are still going to work interacting every single day lockdown or no lockdown. RL players have no special needs in front of these people and we would not be involving people currently infected or with symptoms same as any other industry.

I would imagine that small sample however might be larger or on a par with the subset of players with children with inherent thoracic problems. I doubt that number, if any, would be enough to prevent games going ahead. In saying that I would equally leave the decision of whether to play up to the player but I would not expect any problems at all with fielding teams.

With regards other sports the Premier League are meeting Friday to pencil in a date for a return. This is timed for after the Government announcement for the continuation of the lockdown so will be of great interest. Most professional players have been told to be expect to be back training on either the 4th or 11th of May which tells its own story. Even the badly hit Italians are now moving to plan a restart.

Should restrictions be lifted enough I fully expect to see RL of some form before Summer is out. The likely alternative, pending a ridiculously benevolent Sky, is disaster.

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33 minutes ago, Bearman said:

How many times do I have to say

 that I am talking about Rugby League on the Rugby League forum not on the Any Other Business/ Any other Sprts or the Politics forums.

My comment was if we had to have a 12 month furlough to rugby league it would not be the end of the world. 

Your comment above would indeed be true IF it was on either the Any othe Business /Any other Sports or the Political threads. BUT IT ISN'T  it is on the RUGBY LEAGUE Forum

This whole thread is " The General RUGBY LEAGUE Forum. I take that to mean that we are discussing rugby league NOT the impact that this pestilence is having on society or the economy.  

I hope I am clear. If not I don't know how to make it clearer.

 

Sorry I didn’t realise that this pandemic only affected rugby league ?

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I am right. You know I'm right. 

Realistically nobody here thinks that the lack of medical staff will be an issue. It's a silly assertion and people are just trying score points so it's a bit silly to expect me to treat it as a serious proposition.

Jesus wept ?

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2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Sorry I didn’t realise that this pandemic only affected rugby league ?

You did not read the forum title or the the thread title then.

Forum Title..... The General RUGBY LEAGUE Forum ( i.e items SPECIFIC to rugby league)

 Thread Title..... Clubs reject games behind closed doors.(  i.e the impact to the game of rugby league.

Hope that helps.

 

Ron Banks

Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow

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25 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

“It is quite busy (with hospital role) but I’m from Cas and grew up watching rugby league so it doesn’t feel like too much of a chore!” said Raynor.

Definitely sounds on his knees and we shouldn't restart the game 

Wont somebody please think of the doctors.

What a ridiculous part of the article to quote.  This was from the section on his shared role between the Tigers and his normal hospital duties.

However, this quote is from the section on the impact of Coronavirus "We’re working a lot more hours as you can imagine, a lot more weekends and nights just to make sure it’s staffed properly and that’s the junior doctors but also all the consultants"

As for your "wont somebody please think of the doctors" contribution.  I hope that's a flippant comment you didn't think through as it doesn't reflect very well on you at all.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Hang on, havent you spent the last two pages that, that was moving the goalposts? Hmmm...

Now you want to argue that it will be a factor in reopening the game and they are on their knees. You should pick one buddy.

But we can agree there is a simple test for this surely. Let's wait and see. When the games opening is delayed because of the tired club doctors you will be right and I will happily apologise for calling it a silly and preposterous notion.

When it isnt, because it obviously wont of course....

Well no. Don't start to try and make things up too, and you've edited what you originally said too:

3 hours ago, Damien said:

Well you should know you are talking nonsense then. 

Its not ridiculous, its plain old common sense. You are saying overworked, I would say unavailable and that is what I've been told by someone who works at a Super League club and who has been furloughed. I have been told that is what has been said at meetings between Super League clubs. You can choose to believe that or not.

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11 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

We have been in lock-down for three weeks with another three or four weeks more than likely. The number of new infections is dropping in many, many places around the world which suggests a peak has passed. As you cannot die from CV unless actually infected with it a fall in deaths therefore has to follow in the very near future. 

"Talk" of a return is not premature. RL , Sky and associated activities are part of the economy. A return needs to be planned and prepared adequately which cannot be achieved without talking.

 

 

It might boil down to having a club or no club, contract or no contract , job or no job. There is no other income for RL at this time and furlough does not prevent redundancy.  Sky have intimated that whilst they are prepared to write off money paid so far they will not be paying the Premier League anymore money without a resumption. There is no reason RL should be any different. I only have a small sample but the RL players I have interacted with are not hiding in their bedrooms with their teddies waiting for the danger to pass. They are eager to resume asap. Hundreds of thousands of people are still going to work interacting every single day lockdown or no lockdown. RL players have no special needs in front of these people and we would not be involving people currently infected or with symptoms same as any other industry.

I would imagine that small sample however might be larger or on a par with the subset of players with children with inherent thoracic problems. I doubt that number, if any, would be enough to prevent games going ahead. In saying that I would equally leave the decision of whether to play up to the player but I would not expect any problems at all with fielding teams.

With regards other sports the Premier League are meeting Friday to pencil in a date for a return. This is timed for after the Government announcement for the continuation of the lockdown so will be of great interest. Most professional players have been told to be expect to be back training on either the 4th or 11th of May which tells its own story. Even the badly hit Italians are now moving to plan a restart.

Should restrictions be lifted enough I fully expect to see RL of some form before Summer is out. The likely alternative, pending a ridiculously benevolent Sky, is disaster.

Fair enough comments indeed mate.  I gave the kids issues as an example for an individual, but maybe out of context. I am in work but other parts of our business have been shut down.  We have large numbers on our job.  This is no different to RL other than there is contact and close proximity to respiratory related droplets in RL - which is where I think the issues arise.

I've no doubt players will be champing at the bit either but I think decisions will be made by government, not Sky.  The cost to the country is too high, the same financial reason for H&S in industry.  Another interested group will be insurers.

From a rough date of inception, in China, it was around 5 months before they started to open things up again.  The UK has not controlled it as well as them so they maybe a month later.  Say, 6 months.  My opinion, of course.

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57 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Fair enough comments indeed mate.  I gave the kids issues as an example for an individual, but maybe out of context. I am in work but other parts of our business have been shut down.  We have large numbers on our job.  This is no different to RL other than there is contact and close proximity to respiratory related droplets in RL - which is where I think the issues arise.

I've no doubt players will be champing at the bit either but I think decisions will be made by government, not Sky.  The cost to the country is too high, the same financial reason for H&S in industry.  Another interested group will be insurers.

From a rough date of inception, in China, it was around 5 months before they started to open things up again.  The UK has not controlled it as well as them so they maybe a month later.  Say, 6 months.  My opinion, of course.

And China's relaxation of restrictions probably still leaves them stricter than the UK's - as do Spain and Italy's while France have just announced a tightening. China also still haven't yet allowed any sport to start. Basketball were hoping to start there this month (15th, behind closed doors) but the Government have put an open ended ban on that idea. 

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1 hour ago, Bearman said:

You did not read the forum title or the the thread title then.

Forum Title..... The General RUGBY LEAGUE Forum ( i.e items SPECIFIC to rugby league)

 Thread Title..... Clubs reject games behind closed doors.(  i.e the impact to the game of rugby league.

Hope that helps.

 

You’re right up there with Scotchy, I’ll give you that ?

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59 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I edited some spelling.

But surely now we can agree. Either the games reopening is delayed because of the 'availability' of the clubs medical staff or it isnt. If it is you are right. If it isnt I am? Surely that's the obvious simple test of both our arguments, we can revisit it in a month and you can apologise for being wrong ?

In my original post I said I've been told that one of the major obstacles to the return of live sport, even behind closed doors, is the strain on the NHS and other services.  Therefore don't try and shift the goalposts again in an attempt to forget everything you have said the last 4 pages. A clubs medical staff is just one aspect of that. The need for paramedics, ambulances etc is another.

However I am quite content that the game wont open again before 13th May 2020 so am quite happy to see then.

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