Hudgell wants SL/RFL to reunite

[Oldbear]

And I agree that clubs should never overspend themselves into virtual oblivion, then expect someone else to bail them out. I just hope that Covid19 is not used as an excuse to cover up cases of mismanagement, but I suspect it will be.

[HKR AWAY DAYS]

4 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

I got to the bit where he railed against 'skewed fixture list'. Then I remembered that he was in favour of loop fixtures

You just can't take the guy seriously! He changes his mind every other week - always in the interests of self-interest for Hull KR.

Probably more to do with Sky and filling the extra game slots to satisfy the contract. 

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Take personal thoughts on Elstone out of it. SL needs a talented and empowered leader separate from the RFL, that person and their team costs money.

This smacks of typical RL to me. False economies all over the place. 

Quite right but with a little fudging, the RFL requires that empowered and talented leader not just one part of the sport, being someone I have never known in all the time I have been involved in this game, Uncle Mo and Richard Lewis tried but were underachievers they were too nice to complete the job in the end. We need the guy who pampers to no one, if there has to be some culling to be done so be it, but don't throw all the eggs into the SL basket

Be honest Scotchy, you have no consideration for the game as a whole, that is not in your makeup, you constantly accuse people who have connections with clubs under SL status that their consideration is only for their own clubs, but is that not what you desire where the Rhinos are concerned? 

The game is much bigger than any one or set of clubs, we are a collective of Rugby League clubs, I agree we need somebody with a radical approach to tidy it all up from the top to the bottom including the community game, but that can only be acheived by one governing body with one very headstrong leader, somebody strong enough to tell the Leneghans, McManus's, Pearson's, Hudgell's, Beaumont's, Longo's etc this is what we are doing and this is the way and why we are doing it, that is the only way it will work at present with a two pronged approch we are heading for failure, Elstone and Rimmer are like two owner's of a corner shop, we have to speculate to accumulate and attract the likes of those capable of running a multi-national chain of stores, would either of the two mentioned convince you in any TV negotiations, they certainly would not convince me, sourcing and paying the man with a presence, knowledgeable and charismatic could well prove to be self financing in that department alone.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I'd also add to Hudgell, if the game needs to streamline the amount of pro clubs it has, it would be prudent to look at whether we need two in Hull considering the public struggles both are having now and the struggles they have producing enough players for 2 pro sides. 

Please tell me of any RL club that produces enough player's from their own vicinity?

[gingerjon]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Please tell me of any RL club that produces enough player's from their own vicinity?

Hopefully the answer, until you get to the amateur ranks, is zero.

It would be an absolute mark of failure as a sport.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

That little bit of fudging is why the game keeps failing.

And no, the RFL shouldn't do it, and not that person shouldn't be empowered for the championship and l1 as well (I notice your whole sport approach conveniently ignores the community game, international game etc, it's much easier for you to just write 'more money for leigh' in your posts)

They should be separated. Done right it is a full time job and it needs a narrow focus. Someone doing that job for 'the whole game' would do a poor job for all of it. 

Read back, dont bother:-

 I agree we need somebody with a radical approach to tidy it all up from the top to the bottom including the community game.

OF course it is a full time job.

 

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

About 3k 'leigh fans' dont attend when Leigh are in the championship and not SL, apparently, according to you and starbug, the other 2k would walk away if there wasnt P+R 

You are now wanting to pretend that the vast majority of RL.fans would stay if the game became amateur and all.the best players left. 

Sure...

I would not turn up, if P&R was abolished I have been there before. 

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

It's not a full time job.

It's numerous ones.

Apology please for what you got wrong!

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

It's not a full time job.

It's numerous ones.

For God's sake man, I thought you were buisness savvy?

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

You do not have to be a believer in Marxist historical inevitability to realise that COVID-19 has simp[y accelerating a process that was already underway in Rugby League.

We do not have 37 professional clubs we have about 16 full time clubs. The key phrase here ifrom Mr Hudgell is "only clubs with top-league ambitions are professional"  In reality you have about 21 clubs who are not going to be super league candidates anytime soon - Good luck  to anyone though who is going to tell the followers of "scutterton scorpions" that they have no place at the top table - You only have to see the Super League threads on here to see the reaction that gets. and fratricide is inevitable

Super League clubs fear relegation into a semi-pro league - Sounds like franchising is back on the agenda with the wagons being circled.

Northern Hemisphere Rugby League is already a feeder league for the NRL and to much lesser extent Union. This because it fails to generate enough revenue, a big enough playing base, spectators and sponsors because the game has never in the last 25 years properly expanded within the British Isles - Becomng a sort of voluntary prisoner of georgraphy to please  "true supporters" .

Not expanding within the Brtish Isles directly affects the value of any TV deal and the number of bidders available. It's ridiculous that you want to know what te government thinks about how the game is run as opposed to the view of your major broadcaster in SKY TV. Even the mighty NRL dances to the broadcasters tune, and assuming the game was ever to deal with a private equity company then in order to maximise their profits that company will be also prescriptive in who it wants to constitute that league.

Thuis will mean the end of the artificial club in Toronto, "Rugby League Norway" and the rest of the fantasy rugby league clubs expounded on here. More regrettably it may mean the end of the French clubs in a British league. But that may be the only way the game will get a deal in any way near the value of the last contract.

Whether the league gets underway again this year or not there are some harsh realities that Rugby League needs to face up to and a lot of people both within the game and on this board are not going to like the answer.

Very well put Sir, I have considered for the last couple of years that the new TV deal will fall short of the present one, we already have two owners from the Far East screaming from the roof tops, along with Leneghans proposed 'nothing for those below SL' it is obvious that the harsh realities those at the top see coming want it to befall on others not them. 

I think you are very correct in that this situation has been accelerated by the enforced lockdown, it was simmering away underneath waiting for something to happen, interestingly you term Toronto as artificial I would expand that to include Ottawa and the proposed New York, what are they actually putting into the game over here, they have a few curious Canadians turning up to watch but what else, no infrastructure, no players, no TV money, the same can be said about France in the TV respects, next season we will have 4 teams which a lot of people are putting emphasis on as the saviours of Northern Hemisphere R.L. who without contribution to the pot will be false prophets.

[whatmichaelsays]

15 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Has there been time to achieve anything?

Elstone had half a season after appointment, one full season and then 5 weeks of this season.

And whilst I agree the revamping of presentation is low hanging fruit it took Elstone to get it done. The RFL under Wood and Rimmer let it slide for pretty much a decade to the point it wasnt just not good, it was actively bad. 

I'm just unsure about, as a whole, its expected to achieve. 

Take personal thoughts on Elstone out of it. SL needs a talented and empowered leader separate from the RFL, that person and their team costs money.

This smacks of typical RL to me. False economies all over the place. 

Saving half a mill on Elstones wage to try and prop up some clubs who havent been financially viable in decades is going to look pretty stupid when we give him a massive pay off and see the SL tv value collapse and everyone goes bust in 2022

I agree entirely with the last paragraph

Elstone is working with his hands tied behind his back. You could have put Steve Jobs in charge of this sport to lead it to a new future, but he'd have been hamstrung by 12 club owners, a saddingly large number of them think that what the public really wants is loop fixtures and that the best way to raise sponsorship funding is to sell raffle tickets. 

Elstone can't do anything when SL club chairmen have 12/13ths of the vote share. That is what really needs to change. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Amatuer clubs survive on volunteers and grants and kids being introduced to the game through the pro level and semi pro level 

Altered for accuracy, this is another fantasy that all the top player's originate from SL towns and cities, a very good number of the Kids have their introduction and spend their formative years in community clubs from towns with a semi-pro team.

Awaiting for you to tell me that's not true.

[whatmichaelsays]

12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

This is largely true, though as a highly paid executive getting people to go along with him should be part of his remit.

You can see in the comments from people like hudgell and Carter that there is no growth mindset and the only view is cut cut cut. 

Absolutely agree on both counts, but there is only so much leading a horse to water you can do. 

Carter is an accountant and there is nothing wrong with that. But he's no visonary. You're never going to get someone like him to accept any type of risk - no matter what the reward. 

The voting make-up needs to change. As a "back of a fag packet" idea, why not have something like 50% of votes belonging to clubs, 25% to the SLE executive, 10% to a players union and 15% to the broadcasting and commercial partners? That way, you wouldn't have a small cabal of clubs holding the game to ransom - the only way the clubs alone could veto an idea is if the view was unanimous - and the views of two under-represented stakeholders (players and broadcasters) are heard. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Altered for accuracy, this is another fantasy that all the top player's originate from SL towns and cities, a very good number of the Kids have their introduction and spend their formative years in community clubs from towns with a semi-pro team.

But these kids who grow up in these towns with semi-pro teams (and also no pro/semi-pro teams) don't grow up in a bubble. They will be aware of SL and will no doubt be interested in it, because it's the top league that's on telly every week. So just because a kid plays for a community club in a town with a semi-pro team, doesn't necessarily mean that they have become engaged with the sport because of that semi-pro team.

Some semi-pro teams do an excellent job of developing the sport and its players, through links with community clubs and their development programmes. I've seen and read loads of good things about Newcastle Thunder, for example. But not all semi-pro clubs will fall in to this category.

[Angelic Cynic]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Quite right but with a little fudging, the RFL requires that empowered and talented leader not just one part of the sport, being someone I have never known in all the time I have been involved in this game, Uncle Mo and Richard Lewis tried but were underachievers they were too nice to complete the job in the end. We need the guy who pampers to no one, if there has to be some culling to be done so be it, but don't throw all the eggs into the SL basket

Be honest Scotchy, you have no consideration for the game as a whole, that is not in your makeup, you constantly accuse people who have connections with clubs under SL status that their consideration is only for their own clubs, but is that not what you desire where the Rhinos are concerned? 

The game is much bigger than any one or set of clubs, we are a collective of Rugby League clubs, I agree we need somebody with a radical approach to tidy it all up from the top to the bottom including the community game, but that can only be acheived by one governing body with one very headstrong leader, somebody strong enough to tell the Leneghans, McManus's, Pearson's, Hudgell's, Beaumont's, Longo's etc this is what we are doing and this is the way and why we are doing it, that is the only way it will work at present with a two pronged approch we are heading for failure, Elstone and Rimmer are like two owner's of a corner shop, we have to speculate to accumulate and attract the likes of those capable of running a multi-national chain of stores, would either of the two mentioned convince you in any TV negotiations, they certainly would not convince me, sourcing and paying the man with a presence, knowledgeable and charismatic could well prove to be self financing in that department alone.

  Perhaps after 125 years of the male gender failing to take the sport on an upward trajectory a change of gender should be looked at.

   The female gender,after all,are regarded as being better with housekeeping,and saving for a rainy day.

 Plenty of the fairer sex doing a great job in business,and in sport.

  I have just happened to notice,over the years,that lots of females have presence,knowledge and charisma.

  Just need them to go for the top jobs in our sport.

  Their playing has attracted a lot more publicity for the sport.Lots are coaching.Just really need a lot more administrators going for the top jobs.Sooner the better for me.

[Harry Stottle]

46 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's not true. 

The vast majority of the top players come through SL acadamies

I know you love to claim this wierd stolen valour that somehow Leigh RLFC are responsible for bringing through player who come through Wigan and Saints academies so you can use youth development as a stick to beat toronto with whilst avoiding the uncomfortable fact that Leigh dont develop youth but it doesnt convince anyone. 

You live in a different world to be everyone else.

Yes gobbin, the majority of players come through SL academies but where do the SL clubs obtain a lot of them, from towns and cities outside of their own vicinity, look at the academy rosters of all our top clubs, yes places like Leigh, Dewsbury, Fev, Batley, Halifax etc, even Salford who don't have an academy.

You really do make things up to suit your argument.

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  Perhaps after 125 years of the male gender failing to take the sport on an upward trajectory a change of gender should be looked at.

   The female gender,after all,are regarded as being better with housekeeping,and saving for a rainy day.

 Plenty of the fairer sex doing a great job in business,and in sport.

  I have just happened to notice,over the years,that lots of females have presence,knowledge and charisma.

  Just need them to go for the top jobs in our sport.

  Their playing has attracted a lot more publicity for the sport.Lots are coaching.Just really need a lot more administrators going for the top jobs.Sooner the better for me.

Fair enough, it was just the terminology used, I shoukd have said the Best Person for the job irrespective of gender.

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

It's not true. 

The vast majority of the top players come through SL acadamies

I know you love to claim this wierd stolen valour that somehow Leigh RLFC are responsible for bringing through player who come through Wigan and Saints academies so you can use youth development as a stick to beat toronto with whilst avoiding the uncomfortable fact that Leigh dont develop youth but it doesnt convince anyone. 

Well your Club Leeds keep trotting down to places like Featherstone and Oldham amongst others to sign players, not to mention the many overseas players they have signed, and many of them have been expensive flops.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

look at the academy rosters of all our top clubs, yes places like Leigh, Dewsbury, Fev, Batley, Halifax etc, even Salford who don't have an academy.

So you could argue that there's no need for semi-pro clubs in these towns, as the juniors will come through regardless...

If there's no pro team in those towns, then would local supporters go and watch the leading amateur clubs in those towns instead (e.g. Leigh East or Miners Rangers, Dewsbury Celtic, Fev Lions, Batley Boys, Siddal etc)? Or would they over time gravitate the few miles down the road to watch the pros in SL such as Wigan, Leeds, Huddersfield etc?

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Well your Club Leeds keep trotting down to places like Featherstone and Oldham ...

How dare they.

[Harry Stottle]

52 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Well your Club Leeds keep trotting down to places like Featherstone and Oldham amongst others to sign players.

Did you not know that Leeds City Council stretches North to South John O'Groats to Land's End, and East to West from Hull to Liverpool.

[Harry Stottle]

30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yes those youths are already catered for by Wigan and saints. Leigh RLFC play no part.

Which youths are those Scotchy?

[gingerjon]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

Anybody any clue what's going on here?

You've been here long enough. You know that it's the down to the exact street demarcation of rugby league areas out of which people are not supposed to ever leave.

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The ones as described. Coming through the pro pathway at saints and wigan et al

But where do they come from? that was the original question, not the made up answer you keep spouting, that only the clubs with Academies are responsible in the pathway of player's.

Nothing to do with all the volunteers around the country that introduce and nurture these kids till it is time for them to move on, but that is something that you have probably never been interested in, nor sought to have been of any help or assistance with, you just sit back and let others do the spade work. 

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You've been here long enough. You know that it's the down to the exact street demarcation of rugby league areas out of which people are not supposed to ever leave.

Meow, look at me, I live down south.