RFL faces promotion and relegation conundrum

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

My what? 

Do you go off old criteria when packing hand luggage for travel? No, you don’t. Now would you start claiming certain clubs should be thrown out of Super League based upon a load of old criteria to a purely hypothetical situation? No, you wouldn’t. It’s just daft. 

One link is 9 years old, the other is 4 years old. 

Your criteria for SL membership ? , How hard can it be ?

[DEANO]

So in a licensed league what would a club need to gain access

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Your criteria for SL membership ? , How hard can it be ?

Don’t really care, if I’m honest. I’m a fan of Rugby League and a Rugby League team and would watch Rugby League and my team regardless of an objective list of criteria. 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

Don’t really care, if I’m honest. I’m a fan of Rugby League and a Rugby League team and would watch Rugby League and my team regardless of an objective list of criteria. 

So why ask ?

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

So why ask ?

To highlight how daft it is using old criteria to try and judge teams years later than the original criteria’s original usage. 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

To highlight how daft it is using old criteria to try and judge teams years later than the original criteria’s original usage. 

Or even how daft it is to discuss crazy different scenarios for re starting RL with in the middle of a pendemic 

[wiganermike]

2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I want them to allow Toronto to sign Watkins since they are now under the cap due to the cutbacks in pay from the Covid crisis....I don't know why there is an issue here.

It doesn't work like that. Each player has a salary cap value assigned to them based on the salary in their contract. It has already been stated by the governing body that the salary cap values of all players remain the same despite the wage cuts being implemented. So if a club was at or close to the limit before, then it still is now. Watkins' salary cap value will be calculated on what his wage would be once wage cuts end so they won't be able to slip him in at a reduced rate either. You may have to wait for someone to be sold (releasing them doesn't remove them from your cap spend) before that can happen.

[Tommygilf]

42 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont disagree with the problem you are highlighting.

But I'm confident the solution to that problem is not what you want

Its ironic the same people would have a go at Toronto not liking certain rules and clamour "well if they want to play in our league..."

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, wiganermike said:

It doesn't work like that. Each player has a salary cap value assigned to them based on the salary in their contract. It has already been stated by the governing body that the salary cap values of all players remain the same despite the wage cuts being implemented. So if a club was at or close to the limit before, then it still is now. Watkins' salary cap value will be calculated on what his wage would be once wage cuts end so they won't be able to slip him in at a reduced rate either. You may have to wait for someone to be sold (releasing them doesn't remove them from your cap spend) before that can happen.

Its a new world now...lets face it...a Depression has begun.  Why ANY club wanting to spend money during a Depression is not allowed...well thats just crazy.

[Robthegasman]

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So what decision do you want Ralph and the lads to make ?

One thing I would like to see is they stick with something and not change tact every few years.

 I think in the end we will see 2 divisions of say 8,10 or maybe 12 clubs.A Super League”Elite”division and a new look Championship division.I think it will be a franchised system where clubs will have to reapply every say 3-4 years and where the criteria will be a strict one to get in.

 I am not particularly endorsing it but it is what I think will happen.

 You ask me what decision(s)should be made well one decision which I think would be to have a general manager for the relevant divisions both now and in future where they have a certain amount of autonomy where in conjunction with the relevant clubs they can make decisions specifically for the clubs in that division.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

But nobody has said it shouldn't happen , there isn't a single ' GF winner ' from the amateur game to promote 

The NCL is regarded as the top Amateur RL comp in the country, and they have a play off system and GF, but irrespective would they want to be promoted? 

I understand on present payments, should any club be promoted, all the clubs officer's and officials are volunteers, as indeed the player's are amatuer, the very moment they became semi-pro then money far far in excess of what they require now will be needed even accounting for the £75K they would recieve.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I want them to allow Toronto to sign Watkins since they are now under the cap due to the cutbacks in pay from the Covid crisis....I don't know why there is an issue here.

I thought they had signed him? but such is my interest that is why I have missed that information, I read the headlines and a couple of pages then scuppered the subject. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

 

This suggests to me that people who only want P&R one way want it because it's in the best interests of their club, and not necessarily the sport as a whole.

Since you are singling out Leigh, have you been to either of the NCL clubs in the town, or for that matter any NCL grounds?

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Since you are singling out Leigh, have you been to either of the NCL clubs in the town, or for that matter any NCL grounds?

He’s far too busy researching “online” these mythical amateur clubs who are desperate to join League 1 to actually attend an NCL game.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

There is a big difference between clubs not wanting something , and clubs are wanting something , that is the strangest argument I think I've ever seen on here , are you suggesting there should be some form of amateur GF where the winner must be promoted even if they don't want to ?

Strange 

On that respect to appease the Geek, if the GF  winner doesn't want 'promotion' offer it to the losing finalist, if they refuse the opportunity then the highest scoring losing semi-finalist and so on, exhaust all the clubs in the NCL, then start on the regional leagues and I still don't reckon there will be any takers.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

He’s far too busy researching “online” these mythical amateur clubs who are desperate to join League 1 to actually attend an NCL game.

It's took a while for the two of us to find some common ground, but here we are in agreement at last,

[Gooleboy]

11 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So, a set of dated criteria that no longer exists? 

 

They had a criteria a few years ago when they let Widnes in despite them finishing around 5th in the Championship.

[Davo5]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

On that respect to appease the Geek, if the GF  winner doesn't want 'promotion' offer it to the losing finalist, if they refuse the opportunity then the highest scoring losing semi-finalist and so on, exhaust all the clubs in the NCL, then start on the regional leagues and I still don't reckon there will be any takers.

Oh i don’t know, heard the dog & duck U12s have big ambitions.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

But it is a necessary and unavoidable consequence of P+R. 

The play-off system was most definatley unavoudable last season, it had been changed from what has become the 'norm', was that to suit Toronto I wouldn't go that far.

The two expected front runners last season were both foriegn teams, in Toronto and Toulouse, the RFL in my opinion got cold feet on the usual neutral ground for the GF, it was to close in the memory of the badly attended 'Catalan' Wembley final and the RFL would not take the risk of a repeat, so it was altered in respect of either one reaching the final never mind both, could you imagine the attendance if it had been played at a neutral venue over here?

Both those teams (and Catalan) have loads of armchair followers and those who favour them from these shores until it means putting their hands in their pockets, the RFL know that and I have witnessed it on a few occasions.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

22 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

On that respect to appease the Geek, if the GF  winner doesn't want 'promotion' offer it to the losing finalist, if they refuse the opportunity then the highest scoring losing semi-finalist and so on, exhaust all the clubs in the NCL, then start on the regional leagues and I still don't reckon there will be any takers.

It only needs one club to say yes to highlight the flaw in the current system

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

37 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

the very moment they became semi-pro then money far far in excess of what they require now will be needed even accounting for the £75K they would recieve.

Are you suggesting there should be some sort of minimum turnover? Seems sensible. Sounds like you're advocating a form of licencing.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

32 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Since you are singling out Leigh, have you been to either of the NCL clubs in the town, or for that matter any NCL grounds?

Yes I have. Are you suggesting that their grounds aren't good enough, and there should be some sort of minimum facility requirements? Seems sensible. Sounds like you're advocating a form of licencing.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

26 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

He’s far too busy researching “online” these mythical amateur clubs who are desperate to join League 1 to actually attend an NCL game.

Are you still struggling to answer my question?

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It remains to be seen whether allowing them in to the UK competition structure has been a good idea at all.

Now that is a good topic to debate.

[GUBRATS]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The NCL is regarded as the top Amateur RL comp in the country, and they have a play off system and GF, but irrespective would they want to be promoted? 

I understand on present payments, should any club be promoted, all the clubs officer's and officials are volunteers, as indeed the player's are amatuer, the very moment they became semi-pro then money far far in excess of what they require now will be needed even accounting for the £75K they would recieve.

I thought that was the case but wasn't sure Harry , you know what some of those Yorkshire lot have some strange idea' s