RFL relaxes minimum salary rule

[Total Rugby League]

The minimum salary for Super League players has been scrapped as clubs prepare to use young talent after the pandemic. The RFL operational rule B1:21...

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[Big Picture]

The minimum is only 15,000 £, seriously???  Just how Mickey Mouse is RL in the UK anyway???

That minimum is less than half of the minimum in the minor league CFL*, their minimum is 54,000 C$ which is 30,973 £ at the current exchange rate.

* For 50 years or more, the CFL has seen an influx of NFL castoffs every August who displaced other players who were good enough to gain a CFL roster place a few months before when the CFL teams held their training camps.  That's how minor league the CFL is, so their minimum salary being more than double that of the so-called "Super League" puts SL in a very poor light.

[Whippet13]

This isn't the CFL or the NFL. I don't know much about CFL finances, but NFL have a masssive revenue so it is unfair to compare them with SL.

The UK minimum wage is £13300pa for an 18 year old based on a 40 hour week.

Many very dedicated and hardworking sportspeople in the UK get paid considerably less than £15000pa.

A SL salary budget of £2m across a 35 player squad is £57000k, that compares favourably to the average UK salary of £36700pa.

Like it or not, sportspeople are paid primarily based on talent and the skill of their agent, it's the same the world over.

[whatmichaelsays]

For what clubs ask the players to put themselves through, they should be paying them more than a call centre salary. 

Comparing them to the national average salary isn't really useful - partly because the UK average salary is pitifully low as it is, but mainly because these aren't average jobs.

These are jobs where young people are encouraged to commit to sport at a very young age, putting other vocations and education to one side. They're jobs where they face very little job security over a very short career. They're jobs where clubs ask them to hammer themselves over that period, to the point where they end up with all manner of life-limiting conditions once the clubs have decided that they are no longer useful, and then they're thrown out into the wider world.

It's no wonder so many ex-RL players have gone on to have problems with drink, substance abuse or the law.  

[Bleep1673]

5 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The minimum is only 15,000 £, seriously???  Just how Mickey Mouse is RL in the UK anyway???

That minimum is less than half of the minimum in the minor league CFL*, their minimum is 54,000 C$ which is 30,973 £ at the current exchange rate.

* For 50 years or more, the CFL has seen an influx of NFL castoffs every August who displaced other players who were good enough to gain a CFL roster place a few months before when the CFL teams held their training camps.  That's how minor league the CFL is, so their minimum salary being more than double that of the so-called "Super League" puts SL in a very poor light.

How much is the costs of the CFL are offset by the NFL? Also what are the average crowds in the CFL compared to SuperLeague

[North but south]

7 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

This isn't the CFL or the NFL. I don't know much about CFL finances, but NFL have a masssive revenue so it is unfair to compare them with SL.

The UK minimum wage is £13300pa for an 18 year old based on a 40 hour week.

Many very dedicated and hardworking sportspeople in the UK get paid considerably less than £15000pa.

A SL salary budget of £2m across a 35 player squad is £57000k, that compares favourably to the average UK salary of £36700pa.

Like it or not, sportspeople are paid primarily based on talent and the skill of their agent, it's the same the world over.

According to ONS the UK average salary for Jan 2020 was £27,300. 

Apprenticeship, which some clubs use, paid an average of £8,500. 

9 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The minimum is only 15,000 £, seriously???  Just how Mickey Mouse is RL in the UK anyway???

That minimum is less than half of the minimum in the minor league CFL*, their minimum is 54,000 C$ which is 30,973 £ at the current exchange rate.

* For 50 years or more, the CFL has seen an influx of NFL castoffs every August who displaced other players who were good enough to gain a CFL roster place a few months before when the CFL teams held their training camps.  That's how minor league the CFL is, so their minimum salary being more than double that of the so-called "Super League" puts SL in a very poor light.

Now neither the NFL's or CFL use academy player just starting the game. If we look at the premiership football, which pays some of the highest wages in the world, the maximum pay liverpool will give under 18s is £40k a year. They actively aim to pay young players a low salary as paying large amounts produced problems in players.

[Jayme2020]

3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

How much is the costs of the CFL are offset by the NFL? Also what are the average crowds in the CFL compared to SuperLeague

As costs the Nfl does not give them much its the tv deal that pays a huge chunk of there costs.

[Big Picture]

7 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

This isn't the CFL or the NFL. I don't know much about CFL finances, but NFL have a masssive revenue so it is unfair to compare them with SL.

The UK minimum wage is £13300pa for an 18 year old based on a 40 hour week.

Many very dedicated and hardworking sportspeople in the UK get paid considerably less than £15000pa.

A SL salary budget of £2m across a 35 player squad is £57000k, that compares favourably to the average UK salary of £36700pa.

Like it or not, sportspeople are paid primarily based on talent and the skill of their agent, it's the same the world over.

Are you trying to justify some players in the top tier of a pro sport being paid just a bit above minimum wage?  Seriously???

And no that average you mentioned doesn't compare well to the average UK salary, not in the day when players in big time pro sport make far above the average salary among the general population.

I wasn't comparing SL to the NFL, but to major leagues in general.  MLS is fifth among the major North American pro leagues and their minimum is 563,500 US$ or 453,281 £.  Strangely I can't seem to find any information on the minimums in the Premier League,  RFU Premiership or Pro14, but they all pay much more than SL.

3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

How much is the costs of the CFL are offset by the NFL? Also what are the average crowds in the CFL compared to SuperLeague

None now as far as I know.  After the failure of the CFL's US expansion attempt in 1995 they were so hard up that they went to the NFL cap in hand for a loan but that was eventually repaid.  Their average crowd last year was 22,916 so they do get considerably more than SL gets although that average has been slipping, especially in Toronto and Vancouver.

[Eddie]

10 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The minimum is only 15,000 £, seriously???  Just how Mickey Mouse is RL in the UK anyway???

That minimum is less than half of the minimum in the minor league CFL*, their minimum is 54,000 C$ which is 30,973 £ at the current exchange rate.

* For 50 years or more, the CFL has seen an influx of NFL castoffs every August who displaced other players who were good enough to gain a CFL roster place a few months before when the CFL teams held their training camps.  That's how minor league the CFL is, so their minimum salary being more than double that of the so-called "Super League" puts SL in a very poor light.

CFL has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. 

[North but south]

13 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I wasn't comparing SL to the NFL, but to major leagues in general.  MLS is fifth among the major North American pro leagues and their minimum is 563,500 US$ or 453,281 £.  Strangely I can't seem to find any information on the minimums in the Premier League,  RFU Premiership or Pro14, but they all pay much more than SL.

The salary of a player on the nfl training roster is $135,000, £108652, per year if they remain on the roster for the full season. 

You cant find minimum salary as European teams usually start players as professionals at 16, sometimes even younger. A 17 year old who isn't even near the reserve team or even training with under 23s isn't going to be on a big salary. These players are always paid low wages. David Beckham was paid £29.50 a week as a YTS player at man Utd.  The minimum a team could pay is £4.15 an hour. A player about to break into the first team at a premier club will be closer to £5,000 a week, but then the average salary of a player in league 2 football is only £1,100 a week.

RFU premiership pays the same low minimum wage, the average player salary isn't much more than the super leagues average.

[Big Picture]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

CFL has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. 

Yes it does, because for Toronto and Ottawa to get a meaningful crop of Canadian players interested in making the transition to play RL they have to be able to make that worth their while.  As long as the money compares poorly to the CFL where in turn the money compares poorly to what players in big time pro leagues get, they won't attract the sort of interest needed to do that.  Seeing how little some players in the "pro" game are getting I'm frankly amazed that Quinn Ngawati is still in the picture.

[Jayme2020]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Yes it does, because for Toronto and Ottawa to get a meaningful crop of Canadian players interested in making the transition to play RL they have to be able to make that worth their while.  As long as the money compares poorly to the CFL where in turn the money compares poorly to what players in big time pro leagues get, they won't attract the sort of interest needed to do that.  Seeing how little some players in the "pro" game are getting I'm frankly amazed that Quinn Ngawati is still in the picture.

In Ottawa i am not sure if they will be able to compete for elite talent as the CFl team does pay big money for elite players one exzample there new quarter back there paying close to $500,000 per season.

[Big Picture]

7 minutes ago, North but south said:

The salary of a player on the nfl training roster is $135,000, £108652, per year if they remain on the roster for the full season. 

You cant find minimum salary as European teams usually start players as professionals at 16, sometimes even younger. A 17 year old who isn't even near the reserve team or even training with under 23s isn't going to be on a big salary. These players are always paid low wages. David Beckham was paid £29.50 a week as a YTS player at man Utd.  The minimum a team could pay is £4.15 an hour. A player about to break into the first team at a premier club will be closer to £5,000 a week, but then the average salary of a player in league 2 football is only £1,100 a week.

RFU premiership pays the same low minimum wage, the average player salary isn't much more than the super leagues average.

On the contrary the RFU premiership is much more than the SL average.  Their salary cap is 7 million £ and their website shows that one of their clubs has 47 listed players with at least one appearance.  That gives an average of 148,900 £, more then 2-1/2 times the 57,000 £ mentioned by @Whippet13above.

[TheReaper]

28 minutes ago, Eddie said:

CFL has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. 

No, Big Picture just loves to S#!+ on the CFL. It's an annoying habit of many Canadians who think if the USA isn't involved it isn't worth anoyone's time. I think it's pretty hypocritical to claim to be be a fan of one sport that is seen as "less than" and is disparaged, and then to go and turn around and do just that to another sport. Why can't all just like the football we like and leave others alone?

Back on topic: Wouldn't a change to the salary floor require approval from the players union?

 

Edit: stupid censor

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

Yes it does, because for Toronto and Ottawa to get a meaningful crop of Canadian players interested in making the transition to play RL they have to be able to make that worth their while.  As long as the money compares poorly to the CFL where in turn the money compares poorly to what players in big time pro leagues get, they won't attract the sort of interest needed to do that.  Seeing how little some players in the "pro" game are getting I'm frankly amazed that Quinn Ngawati is still in the picture.

Just because the minimum salary is £15k doesn’t mean that anyone other than a very few players, if any, earn only that. 

[Eddie]

55 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

On the contrary the RFU premiership is much more than the SL average.  Their salary cap is 7 million £ and their website shows that one of their clubs has 47 listed players with at least one appearance.  That gives an average of 148,900 £, more then 2-1/2 times the 57,000 £ mentioned by @Whippet13above.

The average player in the RU prem doesn’t earn £150k. 

[North but south]

24 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

On the contrary the RFU premiership is much more than the SL average.  Their salary cap is 7 million £ and their website shows that one of their clubs has 47 listed players with at least one appearance.  That gives an average of 148,900 £, more then 2-1/2 times the 57,000 £ mentioned by @Whippet13above.

Not all teams pay to the maximum they can. 

A player in a rfu premiership team academy is on around £18,000. The average wage is around £70,000. More than super league but not 2 times more

[paulwalker71]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Just because the minimum salary is £15k doesn’t mean that anyone other than a very few players, if any, earn only that. 

Then why would it need to be varied?

One has to assume that RFL doing away with that requirement is either because they want to cut the salary of some players to less than that, or because they have players earning less already and want to play them in the fist team.

Otherwise, why do it?

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Then why would it need to be varied?

One has to assume that RFL doing away with that requirement is either because they want to cut the salary of some players to less than that, or because they have players earning less already and want to play them in the fist team.

Otherwise, why do it?

Because people might want to go part time now? Having a minimum salary seems strange anyway, surely if someone wanted to play for free they could. 

[TBone]

Yes, you can play for £0 but your cap value would be the minimum wage, £15000, if you make an appearance in a single qualifying game (see long drawn out thread on Gigot). By reducing the minimum they reduce the cap value which means that more players on < £15000 can play in a season per club.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

No, Big Picture just loves to S#!+ on the CFL. It's an annoying habit of many Canadians who think if the USA isn't involved it isn't worth anoyone's time. I think it's pretty hypocritical to claim to be be a fan of one sport that is seen as "less than" and is disparaged, and then to go and turn around and do just that to another sport. Why can't all just like the football we like and leave others alone?

Back on topic: Wouldn't a change to the salary floor require approval from the players union?

 

Edit: stupid censor

It certainly is annoying that many Canadians think if the USA isn't involved it isn't worth anyone's time, but that is not at all why I am critical of the CFL.  My criticism of them is due to the fact that they and the CRU before them turned what was once a uniquely Canadian sport into a second-rate version of brain damage ball dominated by players and coaches from the US.  Their problems are all of their own making, they're a direct consequence of their game being so similar to the US game that comparisons (which invariably show them in a poor light for many reasons) are inevitable.

35 minutes ago, North but south said:

Not all teams pay to the maximum they can.

That is certainly true in SL, as we both know only about half of the teams (if that) can afford to pay the full 2.1 million £ maximum.

38 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The average player in the RU prem doesn’t earn £150k. 

True, according to this 2017 report, the average was 200,000 £ at that time.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

I'm not a professional statistician, but when people on here talk about the 'average', what do they mean by that; mean, median or mode?  And which of those do people think is most relevant to the debate here?  Just asking!

[TheReaper]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It certainly is annoying that many Canadians think if the USA isn't involved it isn't worth anyone's time, but that is not at all why I am critical of the CFL. 

You're right, I should have clarified that you do indeed have different reasons than most for that. I still think you grind that axe too much here.

 

Why would a players' salary for one game mean they have a cap hit for the whole year? I don't know how SL works, but in the CFL and NFL only games players on the 1game injured list count towards the cap. Seems awful simplistic if that's not the case here.

[Jayme2020]

Why would you be critical of the CFL.

[Pulga]

This is what you get from the small minded, antiexpansionist group in England.

You've made your bed, now sleep in it.