Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Man of Kent

‘The next best thing to football in the North of England’

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Moove said:

Listening to the relevant part of Carter's interview it's a mix of empty musings and misery. Frankly it sounds like I'm listening to someone who would feel comfortable running a semi-pro club at a lower level. No issue with that at all to be fair but I'm not sure that's someone who has the drive and ideas to help take SL and the wider sport forward over the next decade.

This is the owner of one of the elite 12 clubs in the sport and he's saying "I've still not had it explained to me what the end goal is" in relation to expansion of the sport. Seriously? He's one of the people who should be bloody well deciding what expansion and growth should look like not having it explained to him like a child. If it doesn't include expanding beyond borders then make that call and present the alternative strategy. You would also hope to have seen some evidence of his own club's contribution to this growth of the sport through his tenure to add weight to his views but again that seems lacking. Particularly in contrast to Catalans whom he also doesn't see the point of and would seemingly swap for Leigh and his new buddy Derek in a heartbeat.

The stuff around targeting Liverpool is something of nothing. There is clearly no real logic or thought process behind that comment with zero ideas on how he thinks that's going to be achieved (much like a number of similar nonsensical posts on this thread) or what the end goal would be. Hopefully he's not just hoping Saints will grow into new markets for him to hang on the coattails of.

Simply re-branding the nearest team and chucking a few games at a city which evidence shows as having near-zero existing interest in rugby league is not a coherent strategy for sustainable expansion and growth. He does make a very good point in referencing Newcastle as a great example of organic growth - but that is totally at odds with what people are suggesting on here about Liverpool and what he himself throws out there with a foray into Liverpool and Cumbria.

If he wants 'the next best thing to football' as a strap-line for RL's growth strategy over the next 10-20 years I'm not too bothered about that - although it sounds small-time and it would seem utterly stupid to throw away the growth in the south of France as Carter seems to advocate and the work being done in London by actively restricting the sport to the north of England. The more important thing is whether there's a sensible strategy and purpose behind it and seemingly there is none. Sadly that's nothing new as far as RL is concerned.

Can you really expect anything different from him though?  If all the worry about "no away fans", talk of them being "random" and "spurious", foot dragging and goalpost moving which accompanied Toronto moving up through the game's pro structure demonstrated anything it's that the small time outlook which Carter's interview exposes is prevalent in the so-called Super League.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RL is not big enough to throw away the thousands of Bradford, Widnes and Leigh fans it has recently done, costing the sport circa £5m pa, in the hope of making up the cash from elsewhere.

The future is to embrace low risk expansion whilst maximising the heartland opportunity.

Carter asks a valid point “ what is the end game” eg if we take in 2 more N American clubs and a French does that mean  7 English teams will provide sufficient quality to challenge Australia, or sufficient interest to produce players

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

RL is not big enough to throw away the thousands of Bradford, Widnes and Leigh fans it has recently done, costing the sport circa £5m pa, in the hope of making up the cash from elsewhere.

The future is to embrace low risk expansion whilst maximising the heartland opportunity.

Carter asks a valid point “ what is the end game” eg if we take in 2 more N American clubs and a French does that mean  7 English teams will provide sufficient quality to challenge Australia, or sufficient interest to produce players

It's a very good question, what is the strategy of the game for these new clubs in other countries?

I'm 100% behind the success of Toulouse, Catalans, Toronto, New York, Ottawa etc. But how are they implemented into our game to make it better?

I really feel for Toronto at this time, they've worked there backsides off in gaining promotion and there fans won't get to see there first ever season at home.


2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding expansion into new city’s dominated by soccer, you need to become part of the bigger Soccer  ‘Sporting Club’ which isn’t going to happen with the TV deals they currently have. We then need to look at lower level clubs that groundshare becomes attractive  eg Northampton, Carlisle, Hartlepool etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, sweaty craiq said:

RL is not big enough to throw away the thousands of Bradford, Widnes and Leigh fans it has recently done, costing the sport circa £5m pa, in the hope of making up the cash from elsewhere.

The future is to embrace low risk expansion whilst maximising the heartland opportunity.

Carter asks a valid point “ what is the end game” eg if we take in 2 more N American clubs and a French does that mean  7 English teams will provide sufficient quality to challenge Australia, or sufficient interest to produce players

The game's problem is that there isn't any opportunity available to maximize in a heartland comprised of smallish economically disadvantaged towns as former St Helens Chief Executive Sean McGuire described them in his two interviews on Tony Collins' Rugby Reloaded podcasts.  The interviews are in podcast number 48 "When Ellery Was King" and number 96 "25 Years of Super League".

Carter's point is valid though, just what the end game is of mixing teams from big cities like Toronto and New York in the same league as teams from those smallish economically disadvantaged towns is indeed difficult to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Carter asks a valid point “ what is the end game” eg if we take in 2 more N American clubs and a French does that mean  7 English teams will provide sufficient quality to challenge Australia, or sufficient interest to produce players

It’s a very valid point. The RFL hasn’t really painted a picture about what the end game looks like. I bet they don’t even know themselves. It’s no surprise, then, that so many of the SL supremos have called it into question. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

It's a very good question, what is the strategy of the game for these new clubs in other countries?

I'm 100% behind the success of Toulouse, Catalans, Toronto, New York, Ottawa etc. But how are they implemented into our game to make it better?

I really feel for Toronto at this time, they've worked there backsides off in gaining promotion and there fans won't get to see there first ever season at home.

The answer is expand the number of teams to create opportunities that need to be filled going forward, clubs can build or plan that way. Having a N American club cashed up and in The third tier is stupid, as stupid as casting Bradford adrift

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It’s a very valid point. The RFL hasn’t really painted a picture about what the end game looks like. I bet they don’t even know themselves. It’s no surprise, then, that so many of the SL supremos have called it into question. 

Unfortunately they're also yet to present a coherent alternative strategy of their own in the absence of one from the RFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Don’t confuse the elite of the Champions League with wishing to play them on a weekly basis at the expense of the domestic league. A good example is the struggle for sides to sell Europa League games - some of them against very recognisable, notable cities - and yet struggling to get a ticket for a Premier League game against Burnley, Bournemouth, whoever. 

On the topic of Liverpool, it is the most inwardly-looking city in the UK by some distance and positively resistant to what isn’t seen as being part of their culture. With the recent political climate, this is an attitude that is increasing all the time. I’d probably put Manchester in the top three of any such list. 

Liverpool the most inward looking city - You really are talking rubbish. 

I'm not really sure where to start from, is it the huge size of the maritime industry connecting the UK to the rest of the world, the 3 Universities with tens of thousands of students coming from all over the UK and the world, the oldest Chinatown in Europe, the huge visitor economy, or the European Capital of culture thing.  Liverpool is many things - one thing it isn't is inward looking.

Anyhow, back to the rugby.  I'm not sure how worried St Helens should be about attracting Everton fans, I do know some people from Liverpool who go and watch Saints already but the reason they do that is because St Helen's is such a good club and it's down to the hard work of St Helen's people along with a number of friends and colleagues from outside the borough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Moove said:

Unfortunately they're also yet to present a coherent alternative strategy of their own in the absence of one from the RFL.

Correct. But if the explicit strategy was to become the North’s second sport by promoting the game better to the 15m people who live there then I would be supportive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

It’s a very valid point. The RFL hasn’t really painted a picture about what the end game looks like. I bet they don’t even know themselves. It’s no surprise, then, that so many of the SL supremos have called it into question. 

SL are bowing to the RFL. Have you read the news?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

Wakefield have developed massively commercially off the field the last few years.  The way I interpreted it was some clubs may rely on hospitality income more than us.

 

 Up the Trin 

Sorry, I was just basing that off my impression of his statements in the podcast. Good luck to Wakefield and everyone else in these times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, ojx said:

Sorry, I was just basing that off my impression of his statements in the podcast. Good luck to Wakefield and everyone else in these times.

I didn't thing you were wrong in your original comment. People talk about promoting clubs from Championship who only have ambition yet we still have SL clubs who can't fend for themselves after 25 years. The only ambition being a cheque from Sly to contain their clubs position in SL.

How's about chucking some of that money at the whole game and expand your bank accounts that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Yet a big team of lads (70+) from Stockton and Middlesboro I was working with in Birmingham said they were looking forward to watching the game at the World Cup.

I think Boro, Stockton, Darlington might be the next places to dabble in the amateur game anyway, with Newcastle doing so well.

We already are

we have supported the created of 2 brand new community clubs in that area

Yarm Wolves - now will age groups U8,U10,U12,U14,U16,U18 - over 120 players 

Hartlepool Hurricanes - U12,U14 and Open Age - with over 80 players  

We have big plans for this part of our area and have already employed a brand new full time community development officer for the TeesValley area.

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Yet a big team of lads (70+) from Stockton and Middlesboro I was working with in Birmingham said they were looking forward to watching the game at the World Cup.

I think Boro, Stockton, Darlington might be the next places to dabble in the amateur game anyway, with Newcastle doing so well.

There's certainly a void to fill between amateur teams in North Yorkshire and amateur teams in County Durham, Tyne & Wear and Northumberland.

Teesside Steelers were a successful ARL club, based at the Billingham RU ground. Shame they folded. With more rugby league activity in the North East now, a Teesside (i.e. Darlington, Middlesbrough, Stockton) club or clubs would be less isolated. The ARL club at Yarm seem to be thriving (at youth level, at least). That's virtually on Middlesbrough's doorstep.

Edited by Hopping Mad
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, themainbrace said:

Liverpool the most inward looking city - You really are talking rubbish. 

I'm not really sure where to start from, is it the huge size of the maritime industry connecting the UK to the rest of the world, the 3 Universities with tens of thousands of students coming from all over the UK and the world, the oldest Chinatown in Europe, the huge visitor economy, or the European Capital of culture thing.  Liverpool is many things - one thing it isn't is inward looking.

All of which are tourist related and nothing to do with the natives, to which I present three words. Scouse not English. If it’s “wool”, they don’t want to know. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Newcastle Thunder said:

We already are

we have supported the created of 2 brand new community clubs in that area

Yarm Wolves - now will age groups U8,U10,U12,U14,U16,U18 - over 120 players 

Hartlepool Hurricanes - U12,U14 and Open Age - with over 80 players  

We have big plans for this part of our area and have already employed a brand new full time community development officer for the TeesValley area.

Brilliant work ??

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

There's certainly a void to fill between amateur teams in North Yorkshire and amateur teams in County Durham, Tyne & Wear and Northumberland.

Teesside Steelers were a successful ARL club, based at the Billingham RU ground. Shame they folded. With more rugby league activity in the North East now, a Teesside (i.e. Darlington, Middlesbrough, Stockton) club or clubs would be less isolated. The ARL club at Yarm seem to be thriving (at youth level, at least). That's virtually on Middlesbrough's doorstep.

This is the picture in the North East now, and this is supported with 4 full time development officers that go into 100’s of schools and support all of the clubs split into 3 areas, North Tyne, South Tyne, TeesValley & South 

Everything is spearheaded by the club and players flow into our development and SPARC programmes which then lead onto our full pathway of U16 Scholarship, U18 Academy with full college programme, Reserve team with full university programme then first team 

North Tyne 

Alnwick Bears, Cramlington Rockets, Whitley Bay Barbarians, Wallsend Centurions, Wallsend Eagles, Newcastle Magpies, Hexham Hawks 

South Tyne

Gateshead Storm, Jarrow Viking’s, Durham Demons, Peterlee Pumas, Durham Tigers

TeesValley & South

Yarm Wolves, Hartlepool Hurricanes, West View Warriors, Catterick Crusaders 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

. Ask our Canuck friends on here how many torontonians travel to hamilton for sport for example. 

 

22 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Hamilton is 70kms away from toronto, st Helen's is 10m from liverpool. 

10m is nothing, 70kms is a journey.

Eh, I went to Hamilton to watch GB v Tonga last October, it's much further than 70km from Toronto isn't it? Just saying?

Well we are after all discussing Rugby League, so to a 'proper' league fan the Hamilton in NZ will be the first to cone to mind!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Same reason people from leeds don't suddenly pick up castleford or people from Manchester don't pick up blackburn

Are you not a Wakefield lad Tommy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Regarding expansion in the North for RL, not an easy thing to achieve. We have even struggled to get it going in South Yorkshire. I used to work with a lad who was a fanatical season ticket holder at Middlesbrough FC. I asked him what he thought of Rugby League. He said "If any type of Rugby was on in my back garden, I would draw the curtains"

Exactly the opposite for me Gb, If I have watched half a dozen football games on t.v. in the last 35 years that will be the top number.

Each to their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Eddie said:

The ‘Wool’ snobbery is of course pathetic, but Scousers in general have such a high opinion of Scousers/Liverpool and a sense that they are special and above people from other places, so it will never go away. 

And off course they are all comedians, and the best in the country just ask them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The really interesting thing about The Hundred is that that formed part of their expectations

 To the point it was almost a deliberate effort.

This is a competition that if it simply attracts loads of 'old Lancashire' will be deemed a failure.

There is a clear understanding that what existing fans want doesnt appeal to what people who arent currently fans want.

If the hundred managers to sustain itself, not even make a profit but just keep its head above water, on new fans it has attracted then it will be a massive, game changing success for cricket.

Donning my old man's mantra, for many year's in the Lancashire Cricket League undoubtedly the strongest provincial league in the country, they use to refer to Lancashire C.C.C. as Manchester Cricket Club in a derogatory way, if that is still the attitude I don't honestly know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Eh, I went to Hamilton to watch GB v Tonga last October, it's much further than 70km from Toronto isn't it? Just saying?

Well we are after all discussing Rugby League, so to a 'proper' league fan the Hamilton in NZ will be the first to cone to mind!

Not for Canucks though Harry! But the point still works I doubt there are many chiefs fans in Toronto!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Are you not a Wakefield lad Tommy?

Born and raised till a teenager in Leeds, went to high school in central Wakefield so we moved over when I was 14. Went to Uni in Leeds so been between ever since.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...