Derek Beaumont reveals Super League proposal for 13-team Super League next year

[sweaty craiq]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Leigh have a rented stadium, no youth development and survive on the largesse of Derek Beaumont. 

They have a history of financial problems and only 2 years ago could barely finish the season.

If Leigh were Leicester or Lyon. The same people demanding a place in SL for Leigh would be demanding they be kicked out.

1. Leigh have youth development, Derek didn’t need to tip up in SL

2. As few clubs make money, what are financial problems? The season was completed, HMRC fully paid, no cva or going bump, and all contracts renegotiated or honoured. 

[Angelic Cynic]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

In what way has Super League failed? 

Name a major sport that's elite level has a mixture of full-time and part-time teams competing in it. 

 

  Briefly,it has failed because by playing through the summer months the attendances are not wonderful and the England side has still not defeated Australia.

  Nor has it,as recently mentioned by Mr Pearson,matched the other code.

   Given you have mentioned your age,elsewhere today,have a glance back to the early years,give yourself a bit of deja vu.

   The geographical footprint has hardly made an impression in Great Britain - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/glasgow-aims-for-super-league-1244540.html?amp  - Getting football fans interested?  What year is that?

   They talk of Super League,not rugby league - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/lindsay-defends-the-super-league-revolution-1325431.html

    Anyway,I don't know of any other sport where the elite level has a mixture of full-time and part-time teams.Hence the question.

  If coronavirus causes the potential financial problems at which point will the make -up of Super League be decided? Will there be a criteria as there was when Rod Findlay was the solicitor who created the necessary (?) criteria?

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Angelic Cynic said:

  Briefly,it has failed because by playing through the summer months the attendances are not wonderful and the England side has still not defeated Australia.

  Nor has it,as recently mentioned by Mr Pearson,matched the other code.

   Given you have mentioned your age,elsewhere today,have a glance back to the early years,give yourself a bit of deja vu.

   The geographical footprint has hardly made an impression in Great Britain - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/glasgow-aims-for-super-league-1244540.html?amp  - Getting football fans interested?  What year is that?

   They talk of Super League,not rugby league - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/lindsay-defends-the-super-league-revolution-1325431.html

    Anyway,I don't know of any other sport where the elite level has a mixture of full-time and part-time teams.Hence the question.

  If coronavirus causes the potential financial problems at which point will the make -up of Super League be decided? Will there be a criteria as there was when Rod Findlay was the solicitor who created the necessary (?) criteria?

So a load of useless barometers that aren’t used to judge Super League? 

[sweaty craiq]

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

1. Where are they?

2. Not with enough players it wasnt. And not without publiclu blackmailing players. 

1. Look and you will find

2. Stay to facts, you will find I did

[Harry Stottle]

On 30/04/2020 at 03:45, nadera78 said:

This is my favourite bit from that article:

“If they go to 14 teams then you’ve got a situation where the pie is being split more. But you’ve got to look at what is best for the game rather than what’s best for each individual club financially."

As if Beaumont is doing anything different! He's in the Championship, has put together a good team, and sees an opportunity to get his club into an expanded SL. Every club owner who has spoken publicly on this issue has done so from a nakedly selfish position. 

 

Who is every club owner financing? 

Would you be totally surprised it to be the club they belong to, and financing it to do tge best he can afford, it is any different from any club? 

[Harry Stottle]

On 30/04/2020 at 09:15, nadera78 said:

Do you really need my post to be explained to you?

Yes please.

[clogdance]

On 30/04/2020 at 16:06, scotchy1 said:

Leigh have a rented stadium, no youth development and survive on the largesse of Derek Beaumont. 

They have a history of financial problems and only 2 years ago could barely finish the season.

If Leigh were Leicester or Lyon. The same people demanding a place in SL for Leigh would be demanding they be kicked out.

History of financial problems 100% correct, but we do have a 12.5% stake in the Leigh Sports Village.

[Angelic Cynic]

On 01/05/2020 at 13:36, scotchy1 said:

Then why should SL distribute any funds to the lower league?

  I don't think Super League clubs,more specifically their owners,have this largesse and distribute funds to the lower league clubs.

   It gets distributed to the lower league clubs by the RFL as part of the proceeds from a broadcast deal arranged many years ago,and ends next year.

   I'm finding it hard to visualise Ian Lenagan knocking on doors handing any money over to the plebs...

   Do they distribute funds to any Championship clubs relegated to League 1?

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, clogdance said:

History of financial problems 100% correct, but we do have a 12.5% stake in the Leigh Sports Village.

Despite having a couple of ' wobbles ' the company that currently owns and runs Leigh Centurions is the same one for 18 years now , so not too bad considering 

[Rupert Prince]

On 30/04/2020 at 02:15, ojx said:

13 teams means there can be only 24 games in the season. Which is actually perfect for a later start, better player welfare and more intense (less repetitive games). Also, every team returning from Toronto could have the bye week to recover. Sounds like a lot of wins to me.

Not sure about Magic, but I guess it could be during the bye week for Toronto.

They could really market the XIII for SL and rugby league.

Toronto still needs that extra week from somewhere doesn't it.

[Gooleboy]

14 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Then breakaway and leave the lower tiers to fend for themselves.

Christ your like a recurring record..

They have broke away to a degree, and now they have £16m reasons to realigne with the RFL!

[Rupert Prince]

4 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  I don't think Super League clubs,more specifically their owners,have this largesse and distribute funds to the lower league clubs.

   It gets distributed to the lower league clubs by the RFL as part of the proceeds from a broadcast deal arranged many years ago,and ends next year.

   I'm finding it hard to visualise Ian Lenagan knocking on doors handing any money over to the plebs...

   Do they distribute funds to any Championship clubs relegated to League 1?

This is rubbish.

[Big Picture]

On 30/04/2020 at 09:06, paulwalker71 said:

Well the article was good for a laugh, at least

I lost interest, really, when he started by saying:

... as if you can just snap your fingers and produce such a thing I guess Degsy's sundeck company doesn't qualify as 'blue chip', perhaps he would have to qualify by marrying a Saudi princess? 

He is right that the game needs that kind of league if it's ever going to bring in the sort of money it needs to keep pace with soccer and RU and prevent the eventual end of pro RL in the northern hemisphere, but wrong to think that it could ever have it within the current structure.  As such a league would have to base all its franchises in cities where there's a lot of money around and all but one of the game's traditional clubs are in what former St Helens Chief Executive Sean McGuire has called smallish economically disadvantaged towns where there isn't any real money to be had, ipso facto it would have to be entirely separate from the league in which those traditional clubs play and not include any of them.

[Smudger06]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

About 9m goes to the RFL, about 5m to the lower leagues. Every year.

This desperation to pretend these funds dont come from SL to the lower leagues is strange because in the end it doesnt matter.

If SL dont get it from sky or dont give it to the RFL it doesnt go to the lower league clubs. Literally the only reason it's ever an issue is because it goes against the narrative of big bad selfish SL clubs and poor put upon lower league clubs 

You continue to spout outright lies. 

You have a warped agenda.

Whom on these here TRL forums lap up your misinformation? This is my question. 

A figure of £3,750,000 goes to the RFL from SLE coffers, most due from services rendered. 

0, Nothing at all! Goes to the lower leagues from SLE coffers! 

[Smudger06]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Then why is the amount of funding the lower leagues get from 2022 onward dependent on the value of the SL broadcast rights?

Because that's going to be a whole new deal / contract. 

& because of the new agreement struck in 2019

During the course of 2018, the RFL and SLE discussed a revised deal between the parties relating to funding to the end of the current broadcast agreement (end of 2021); funding beyond 2021; competition structure and a number of other matters including the structure of the SLE Board.  The RFL Board concluded that the deal was in the best interests of the RFL and the Game as a whole as, amongst other things, it: 

• Provides financial certainty for the balance of the current broadcast contract;
• Enshrines an automatic promotion and relegation mechanism between Super League and the Championship relating to on-field performance whilst ensuring the equitable application of minimum standards and support for all its competitions.  This in turn will ensure that the RFL and the competitions below Super League are able to attract investment from those with the ambition of getting to Super League;
• Includes a financial guarantee to the RFL from SLE beyond the current broadcast term;
• Is in line with the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the Super League Clubs who believe that the proposed deal gives them the best opportunity to create a strong and vibrant Super League that will stimulate growth in all areas of the Game;
• Allows the RFL to refocus on its primary assets of men’s and women’s England and Great Britain representative Rugby League, the Championship and League 1, the Community game and its membership scheme, Our League and supporting Rugby League World Cup 2021 Limited in delivering a successful World Cup. 

The formal agreement(s) with SLE were completed in 2019.

[Smudger06]

There's a payment of £700,000 that goes outside of Super League and it's member Clubs that isn't included in the RFL figure. That's £700,000 parachute payment to ex SL Members. 

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

This is rubbish.

  What may be rubbish is if the discussion about NOT relegating a club = looking at the above post from Smudger = impacts on the funding.

  The other bit of rubbish may be the determination to play games,after the month of June,to ensure further monies,if the country,led by the government who have loaned the sport 16m pounds,are still insisting on similar measures as they stand today,to counter Covid19.

  https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/11253904/super-league-clubs-set-to-get-sky-money-until-june-but-the-magic-may-be-lost/

[Smudger06]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Currently the SL broadcasting deal is for £40m a year but Super League clubs receive only £26m of that. The rest funds the RFL, England and the rest of the game – including £4.9 million to the Championship.

-Ian Lenegan 

Except that it's not the SL broadcasting deal. It's the RFL / SL joint broadcasting deal. 

The 1st thing Lenagan omitts to mention is the £3.5m out of that 40m sum which is earmarked for the Clubs charitable foundations and sky try. 

[Smudger06]

17 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It doesnt alter how much goes to the lower leagues  it tells you exactly how much.

If you want to pretend that the CC or international RL without SL players is worth 14m, or even 5m. Good luck. 

No, Lenagan is talking tosh to suit his own agenda. 

Total Broadcasting Income receivable by the Company (SLE) AND the Rugby Football League = £32,400,000 

Retained by the RFL = £5,900,000. 

Resulting in income of £26,500,000 attributable to the Company (SLE)

You say what is the CC & Tests worth without SL, some ask What is Super League worth without the Challenge Cup and Internationals? 

[Smudger06]

18 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Cool, let's see!

Though the obvious question if you are correct is, why out 7.6m paid for the CC and internationals do the championship clubs deserve 4.9m. With 2.7m distributed to SL and L1

I presume you arrive at the figure of £7.6m from the difference between your Mr Lenegans imaginary 'SL Broadcasting Deal' of £40m a year & the actual figure of £32.4m from total broadcasting revenue?

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The number that was also originally reported and has been consistently reported.

But fine, I don't believe that your know the figures and everyone else is lying but even if we pretend you are correct.

32.4m, 26m goes to SL clubs,5.9m to the RFL for the CC and internationals.

Where does the money come from to pay for the championship? 

It was reported as an RFL negotiated joint SL / RFL £200,000,000 deal. Over a 5 years period. Thats not quite the same thing as a £40m per year SL Broadcasting deal. I've already said that Lenegans forgetting to mention the £17,800,000 which is obliged to be spent on Foundations etc. These are registered Charities. So that leaves £182,200,000 Over the 5 year life of the deal. (£36,440,000 per year as a rough average) however the deal doesn't mean they split the payments exactly by year, because of inflation etc you'd expect payments to be top loaded to the back end of the deal, so more total broadcasting revenue receivable in 2020 & 2021 than the 1st 3 years. 

£26.5m goes to SL. 

£5.9m goes to RFL. 

From Total Broadcasting Revenue receivable for the last reported year. 

On top of this £26.5m SL also gets it's income from Sponsorships and Match Day Income (Magic Weekend & GF ticketing) 

Where the money comes from to pay for the Championship? 

In the 1st instance the 14 Clubs themselves. 

And yes, THE RFL (not SL) awards funds to the 14 Championship Clubs. These payments from the RFL to Clubs are about £5.2m per year, that figure is all Clubs, not just the 14 that happen to be in the Championship. 

[Rupert Prince]

13 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  What may be rubbish is if the discussion about NOT relegating a club = looking at the above post from Smudger = impacts on the funding.

  The other bit of rubbish may be the determination to play games,after the month of June,to ensure further monies,if the country,led by the government who have loaned the sport 16m pounds,are still insisting on similar measures as they stand today,to counter Covid19.

  https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/11253904/super-league-clubs-set-to-get-sky-money-until-june-but-the-magic-may-be-lost/

Money from the Sky TV deal exists because there are SL games which SKY viewers can pay to watch. Without that there would be no money to hand over to lower leagues in the first place. 

Without a SL product to sell there is nothing other an a pile of sand to try to build on.

Currently money IS handed over to those lower leagues from out of Sky money.  If SL goes bankrupt for whatever reason - no TV deal, or a virtually worthless one -there is no money to pass on to anyone.

There is a similar point being made in Australia right now... writ large.

[Smudger06]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Where does the RFL get this money from?

The RFL has income of about £23m, we have already discussed about £5.9m comes from the SL/RFL broadcasting deal. 

I've already stated on this thread that it gets paid £3.75m from SL, it's a shareholder after all and does manage SL under a Funding & Management Agreement (Referees, anti doping, Disciplinary etc etc) it's got it's own Match Day Income from CC & Tests, it's got it's own sponsorship agreements, it gets about 4.5m from government towards grass roots. 

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The RFL holds a special preference share that doesnt entitle it to a dividend.

But that's by the by. We finally get to what we all knew all along. The RFL gets its money from the SL tv deal and if it doesnt get that money because such a deal doesnt exist they dont have money to distribute to to the lower leagues. 

The Championship is sustainable, SL is not. Even SL bosses know this. 

[sweaty craiq]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 10:57, scotchy1 said:

Where does the RFL get this money from?

They get it from SKY TV, who get it from me and thousands of other RL fans who wouldn't give them our £500 pa if they didn't hence they have evaluated gains/losses and decided that by giving the non SL clubs something they retain far more income - how do I support this, I interviewed 1028 fans from Championship clubs 71% of whom said that they would cancel Sky should no money fall onto the lower leagues, my calculations based upon attendances and games per annum per fan led me to conclude that Sky would lose circa 30,000 subscribers at £15m pa