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rlno1

Oldham 1989

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15 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Yes but we still had the money to get him.

Not the money from lottery though.

Joynt a different generation to the others you mentioned.

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56 minutes ago, herbie said:

Not the money from lottery though.

Joynt a different generation to the others you mentioned.

That is correct but the main overall point of the conversation was that having money does enable clubs to prosper on the field.

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The club, at the moment , is operating on a shoe string. It goes from one season to the next without any means of real income apart from that allocated by the RFL. The crowds can hardly be covering costs. The lack of a real home is by and far the main stumbling block to future riches. Solve that problem and we could be the start of a new golden era. But how? Back in the day, the club was a members club, all be it with wealthy members leading the board. The Hutchins stand was 'upgraded'  with public donations. If we needed a new player a bucket and blanket collection was made. But in these modern times that won't be enough. We have the golden gamble. But again that won't be enough. Having a real home with bar facilities should be the first step. But, it costs money. There isn't any.

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3 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

The club, at the moment , is operating on a shoe string. It goes from one season to the next without any means of real income apart from that allocated by the RFL. The crowds can hardly be covering costs. The lack of a real home is by and far the main stumbling block to future riches. Solve that problem and we could be the start of a new golden era. But how? Back in the day, the club was a members club, all be it with wealthy members leading the board. The Hutchins stand was 'upgraded'  with public donations. If we needed a new player a bucket and blanket collection was made. But in these modern times that won't be enough. We have the golden gamble. But again that won't be enough. Having a real home with bar facilities should be the first step. But, it costs money. There isn't any.

And that's why some supporters whose clubs have rich benefactors should think themselves fortunate that they picked their club to invest in instead of ours.

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Is there (or has there been in the past) any sort of indication that the club wants to secure further funding, to move towards a new permanent home? I can’t believe (maybe naively) the club is happy to bounce between L1 and the Championship, and between White Bank and Bower Fold, depending on the league, with no meaningful income.

I don’t doubt there’s isn’t a long line of people wanting to invest in semi-pro rugby league, but surely there is a long term plan?

Having recently started following the club more seriously for the first for a good few years, hearing a fan that won the lottery and wasn’t able to invest any of it into the club just beggars belief. 

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41 minutes ago, OL14.yeds said:

Is there (or has there been in the past) any sort of indication that the club wants to secure further funding, to move towards a new permanent home? I can’t believe (maybe naively) the club is happy to bounce between L1 and the Championship, and between White Bank and Bower Fold, depending on the league, with no meaningful income.

I don’t doubt there’s isn’t a long line of people wanting to invest in semi-pro rugby league, but surely there is a long term plan?

Having recently started following the club more seriously for the first for a good few years, hearing a fan that won the lottery and wasn’t able to invest any of it into the club just beggars belief. 

Yes, that was true. It is a problem that while everyone will be forever grateful to those who invested money to restart a new club when the original one was "forced out of business", the one remaining member of those original investors appears unwilling to reliquish his pow.. err ... his enjoyment of being in a position of authority (which also might make you wonder just why the others left !!!)  Yet, if he did just suddenly pack up and go then there might not be any club at all.

So until the time ever comes when he gets fed up with being a legend in his own mind then I for one can't see things improving that much.

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Chris Hamilton has certainly had his fair share of critics. But put yourself in his shoes. He owns the club, he's put 23 years in and he's not going to give it up without some recompense.  In fact, were I in a position to invest, I wouldn't want him to give it up. He's got experience and contacts. The club has no assets, but then again neither has oldham athletic , yet Abdallah Lemsagam bought them. So there are people out there. It going to need millions though, not thousands.

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5 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Chris Hamilton has certainly had his fair share of critics. But put yourself in his shoes. He owns the club, he's put 23 years in and he's not going to give it up without some recompense.  In fact, were I in a position to invest, I wouldn't want him to give it up. He's got experience and contacts. The club has no assets, but then again neither has oldham athletic , yet Abdallah Lemsagam bought them. So there are people out there. It going to need millions though, not thousands.

Oh yes, as I said in an earlier post, I think we in Oldham do owe him and those who put money in to restart the club a lot of thanks and praise. However, time has moved on and while I also agree with you that I wouldn't necessarilly just boot him out of anything to do with the club's affairs, he does need to realise that in order for the club to progress he does need to possibly relinquish some of his stranglehold and let someone else be the figurehead.

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Another article which shows how Oldham (and indeed some others) were ignored by the RFL just to make themselves more appealing to non-RL enthusiasts by including teams (Paris, London) who had "non-Northern" names ....

https://uk.blastingnews.com/sport/2017/12/paris-st-germain-rl-the-creation-the-downfall-the-legacy-002212875.html

The final two pieces of the article "Decline and fall" and "Scandal" shows how the RFL were well aware before the end of the 1997 season that Paris might not continue for the following year (and even might not have completed the 1997 campaign), yet they still allowed them to play a reserve team for a midweek game at Bradford so their main squad was OK for the relegation decider at home against Oldham at the weekend ... and just two weeks later Paris folded !

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This thread began with a comment about the Oldham team in 1989 who, despite being in the second division (these days the Championship) had reached the Lancashire Cup final. During the thread there have since been other examples shown of how the Oldham team of that period achived several cup giant-killing acts ... 

On their way to that 1989 Lancashire Cup final they had beaten three division one sides; Barrow(46-2 away), St.Helens (36-6 away) before ending Wigan's four year domination of the event with a 19-18 semi-final home win, while they had also beaten Wigan 10-8 at home in the first round of the 1987 Challenge Cup.

Oldham have also caused other cup upsets ... getting to the 1964 Challenge Cup semi-finals (when again in division two) and having beaten three first division clubs on the way, only to lose after a three-match semi-final against Hull KR. Yet some form of revenge took place in 2016 when, once again being in the lower division, Oldham travelled away to play HKR, the previous season's Challenge Cup runners-up, and came away with a 36-22 win.

However, probably the biggest upset of them all came later in that same season as they reached the Lancashire Cup final. Oldham had already beaten first division Salford 18-7 away in round two of the 1990 Challenge Cup and were again drawn away in round three, this time to the current World Champions Widnes ...Tait, Davies, Offiah, Sorenson, McKenzie, Koloto, Moriarty, etc.

However, not only did Oldham win, they restricted Widnes to just two goals while winning 16-4 and progressing into a semi-final clash against Warington - yet that's another story. Just sit back and enjoy ... and at the end just look at the enthusism and support an Oldham side would generate if success once more came their way,

https://orl-heritagetrust.org.uk/game/widnes-v-oldham-3801/

Both teams ended their 1989-90 season with success at Old Trafford .... Widnes winning the First Division Premiership trophy while Oldham came back from a 29-8 deficit midway through the second half to defeat Hull KR 30-29 in the Second Division final.

Oldham certainly seem to up their game whenever the odds are stacked against them ... if only they could do so more consistently.

 

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On 02/05/2020 at 11:47, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

It really is so sad. The sale of the stadium was really the last straw.  Couldn't afford to upgrade it. We were supposed to move to boundary park with the football on the promise of a new stadium.  It  never materialised. The old club went bust and the rest is, as they say, history. ?

They should have done what Cas and Wakey did. Just not bother upgrading the ground and spend all their money on players and portacabins. The Watersheddings in 1990 wasn’t  that much different from one or two West Yorkshire ground  today. If only the town was a few miles further east they would have still been in the top flight.

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8 hours ago, Bostik Bailey said:

They should have done what Cas and Wakey did. Just not bother upgrading the ground and spend all their money on players and portacabins. The Watersheddings in 1990 wasn’t  that much different from one or two West Yorkshire ground  today. If only the town was a few miles further east they would have still been in the top flight.

53% of Oldham borough is actually in Yorkshire. Didn't help though. Another interesting fact, during the 2nd world war Oldham played in the Yorkshire cup. 

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8 hours ago, Bostik Bailey said:

They should have done what Cas and Wakey did. Just not bother upgrading the ground and spend all their money on players and portacabins. The Watersheddings in 1990 wasn’t  that much different from one or two West Yorkshire ground  today. If only the town was a few miles further east they would have still been in the top flight.

Yes they could easily have done that but Oldham Council offered to buy the ground and then provide a new one. With the ground having been sold to the Council and then Oldham being relegated from the Super League (with the help of the RFL who considered their name not as marketable as Paris or even Huddersfield) the Council then renaged on that deal and that ultimately saw the club fold. The current club only began because of some locals putting their own money into the venture but had to start with no ground, no players and very little finances.

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18 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

53% of Oldham borough is actually in Yorkshire. Didn't help though. Another interesting fact, during the 2nd world war Oldham played in the Yorkshire cup. 

Im also reminded of a time when oldham were playing Widnes, at boundary park, the oldham fans were chanting "we hate Scousers, we hate scousers". Widnes fans replied with "you dirty Yorkshire b@stards". Heh heh, rugby league banter, you can't beat it.

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21 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

53% of Oldham borough is actually in Yorkshire. Didn't help though. Another interesting fact, during the 2nd world war Oldham played in the Yorkshire cup. 

It`s always alarming when you look at a map of the North and realise just how far west the county line reaches, and thus how big Yorkshire is. Thankfully hardly anyone lives in most of it, but even so this is unfinished business. That border needs shifting significantly eastward. Where do I sign up?

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51 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

It`s always alarming when you look at a map of the North and realise just how far west the county line reaches, and thus how big Yorkshire is. Thankfully hardly anyone lives in most of it, but even so this is unfinished business. That border needs shifting significantly eastward. Where do I sign up?

When the county boundaries were reorganised in 1974 some area of what was Yorkshire came under the new county of Greater Manchester and under the control of the Oldham Metropoitan Borough ("Yorkshire Day" is still celebrated in many districts of what are now parts of Oldham while the club badge of Saddleworth Rangers ARLFC includes both a red and a white rose). 

sr.jpg.91120feb40eba06d1282b69d08fdf9ee.jpg

Indeed, if supporters from Yorkshire ever went to Watersheddings, having come off at junction 22 of the M62, they will have passed signs showing the old boundaries at the top of the hill about 2 miles before going down to the ground.

lan.jpg.07bc4da84b55d97047a8d490918fd953.jpgden.jpg.42eb28cda3dfcfe5cc7d099a0d96968a.jpg

On another road in Oldham where the old boundary used to be, there was a small brook at the divide with a pub on each side and each having different opening and closing times according to the county by-laws. Therefore when one closed at 10.30pm there would be a line of people crossing over the bridge to go to the other pub which closed 30 minutes later. 

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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19 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

When the county boundaries were reorganised in 1974 some area of what was Yorkshire came under the new county of Greater Manchester and under the control of the Oldham Metropoitan Borough ("Yorkshire Day" is still celebrated in many districts of what are now parts of Oldham while the club badge of Saddleworth Rangers ARLFC includes both a red and a white rose). 

sr.jpg.91120feb40eba06d1282b69d08fdf9ee.jpg

Indeed, if supporters from Yorkshire ever went to Watersheddings, having come off at junction 22 of the M62, they will have passed signs showing the old boundaries at the top of the hill about 2 miles before going down to the ground.

lan.jpg.07bc4da84b55d97047a8d490918fd953.jpgden.jpg.42eb28cda3dfcfe5cc7d099a0d96968a.jpg

On another road in Oldham where the old boundary used to be, there was a small brook at the divide with a pub on each side and each having different opening and closing times according to the county by-laws. Therefore when one closed at 10.30pm there would be a line of people crossing over the bridge to go to the other pub which closed 30 minutes later. 

The fact about the ecumenical Saddleworth badge (which I didn`t know), is quite heart-warming in its way. However, celebrating "Yorkshire Day" is a step too far, unless it`s done satirically, Monty-Python style.

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1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The fact about the ecumenical Saddleworth badge (which I didn`t know), is quite heart-warming in its way. However, celebrating "Yorkshire Day" is a step too far, unless it`s done satirically, Monty-Python style.

Well, there are still many people who live in Saddleweorth and were born there when it was part of Yorkshire, so understandable from that point of view.  It's like myself going to "the proper" Old Trafford and supporting Lancashire cricket even though it is now in Greater Manchester and not Lancashire., 

Take a photo of this comment if you wish because it's not often that I support Yorkies ! ?

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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Indeed, Large parts of Saddleworth area was in the West Riding of Yorkshire, indeed, I'm sure many residents still class themselves as from Yorkshire rather than Lancashire or Greater Manchester?

Edited by meast

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9 hours ago, meast said:

Indeed, Large parts of Saddleworth area was in the West Riding of Yorkshire, indeed, I'm sure many residents still class themselves as from Yorkshire rather than Lancashire or Greater Manchester?

Exactly correct, they do ... and you can't blame them.  It's only like most in Oldham still call ourselves Lancastrians and not Greater Mancunians.  Yes, we know what you over the hill call us !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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OK, a bit before 1989 ... this is a link to an artcile in "The Rugby Paper" (a Rugby Union weekly) published on 3 June 2020.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/36884/jackson-column-givvons-spun-them-a-golden-yarn-in-oldham/

It is about Alec Givvons who came from Wales and signed for Oldham in 1933 and remained with the club, even after his playing days ended, in various capacities until he died in 2002. (69 years of service).

Alec, whose son (also Alec) played for Blackpool Borough and later became a Grade 1 referee, was not only chosen as the person to open the Oldham club's Hall of Fame (in which, of course, he is included) but when the Watesheddings ground eventually made way for a housing estate, one of the new thoroughfares which criss-cross where the old ground stood was named in his honour (Givvons Fold).

It is perhaps even more relevant at these times to state that in 1936 Alec became the second ever black player to play for the Welsh Rugby League International team ... and having been been one of the many players throughout the years to have been exiled by the RFU, he would also deem it a honour (if not a bot of an ironic one) that having spent so many decades involved with Rugby League, an artcile about himself is now in one of the 15-a-side's chief publications.

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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