RFL and SL reunite

[Lowdesert]

Announced in the DM.  Elstone 400k.  Plush offices and cannot duplicate roles.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/article-8281071/Super-League-reunite-Rugby-Football-League-two-years-split.html

[Man of Kent]

I hope they keep Elstone on as SL exec director as an RFL employee. 

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Announced in the DM.  Elstone 400k.  Plush offices and cannot duplicate roles.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/article-8281071/Super-League-reunite-Rugby-Football-League-two-years-split.html

I'm not sure that article is anything more than a repackaging of most of the news we've been discussing here all week, but the direction of travel is clear. 

But whether inside or out of the RFL, 400k to run the most visible arm of a supposedly major sport is cheap, as is a 'plush' office in Manchester. So the role, mandate and the package shoukd be kept in one way or another, even if its a distinct section of the RFL. Slashing it all away just as we need to renotiate media rights is a massive false economy. 

[Man of Kent]

15 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'm not sure that article is anything more than a repackaging of most of the news we've been discussing here all week, but the direction of travel is clear. 

But whether inside or out of the RFL, 400k to run the most visible arm of a supposedly major sport is cheap, as is a 'plush' office in Manchester. So the role, mandate and the package should be kept in one way or another, even if its a distinct section of the RFL. Slashing it all away just as we need to renotiate media rights is a massive false economy. 

Absolutely. I believe some of the SL staff were former RFL employees anyway, and the RFL used to employ a SL general manager/director (Draper, Solly et al).

Might just be a case of paper shuffling.

 

[Mr Plow]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

I hope they keep Elstone on as SL exec director as an RFL employee. 

For all the stick he gets I think he’s done a good job rebranding and marketing SL. Reckon he’ll be SL GM? Or will he want total control of the sport? 

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Mr Plow said:

For all the stick he gets I think he’s done a good job rebranding and marketing SL. Reckon he’ll be SL GM? Or will he want total control of the sport? 

If Rimmer is wise then he’d leave Elstone to get on with looking after Super League matters. 

[Oxford]

So the story is we've tried something and now we're going backwards?

Well we've never done that before, have we?

 

[LeeF]

I can think of 16 million reasons why this will happen 

They will, of course, split again once the £16m has been “captured” 

[Toby Chopra]

16 minutes ago, Oxford said:

So the story is we've tried something and now we're going backwards?

Well we've never done that before, have we?

 

If I wanted to be generous to them, I would certainly concede that the current existential crisis for the sport means that every penny of spend should be on the table to be reviewed to see if its the best use of funds at this time. 

But sadly I don't see much evidence of a cost/benefit analysis of potential cuts beyond: "there's a big number, let's see if we can knock a couple of zeroes off it and see what happens." 

[Oxford]

8 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

If I wanted to be generous to them, I would certainly concede that the current existential crisis for the sport means that every penny of spend should be on the table to be reviewed to see if its the best use of funds at this time. 

But sadly I don't see much evidence of a cost/benefit analysis of potential cuts beyond: "there's a big number, let's see if we can knock a couple of zeroes off it and see what happens." 

TGG forever reactionary never proactive, toe in the water and then run away.

I couldn't agree more Toby.

There is a tsunami of a problem so the answer is yesterday. They are the perenial Hovis advert.

[Angelic Cynic]

2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'm not sure that article is anything more than a repackaging of most of the news we've been discussing here all week, but the direction of travel is clear. 

But whether inside or out of the RFL, 400k to run the most visible arm of a supposedly major sport is cheap, as is a 'plush' office in Manchester. So the role, mandate and the package shoukd be kept in one way or another, even if its a distinct section of the RFL. Slashing it all away just as we need to renotiate media rights is a massive false economy. 

  400k is cheap when his sole responsibility is to negotiate a better broadcasting deal than the one already established?

   In the meantime he has taken staff from the RFL,simply taken a few on-field ideas from the NRL,and lost the sport money by taking the

   'Magic' to Liverpool.

    Yet had he carried excess weight and named Everton the 'Blue Sox' he would have been slaughtered - just as Mr Wood has been.

   Looks like rugby league followers have all gone to 'positive - happy clappers'.Good Oh!  

[Toby Chopra]

13 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  400k is cheap when his sole responsibility is to negotiate a better broadcasting deal than the one already established?

   In the meantime he has taken staff from the RFL,simply taken a few on-field ideas from the NRL,and lost the sport money by taking the

   'Magic' to Liverpool.

    Yet had he carried excess weight and named Everton the 'Blue Sox' he would have been slaughtered - just as Mr Wood has been.

   Looks like rugby league followers have all gone to 'positive - happy clappers'.Good Oh!  

We can debate whether Elstone and his media and marketing team were any good at their jobs - although we'll probably never really know as the 3 year build up to signing the new TV deal has been wrecked by this pandemic. 

But their jobs and skills are real and other sports spend far more on it than we do. RL always seems to think it can operate in a different media and economic reality to any other sport - and then wonders why we don't secure the deals and profiles they do. 

[Whippet13]

12 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  400k is cheap when his sole responsibility is to negotiate a better broadcasting deal than the one already established?

   In the meantime he has taken staff from the RFL,simply taken a few on-field ideas from the NRL,and lost the sport money by taking the

   'Magic' to Liverpool.

    Yet had he carried excess weight and named Everton the 'Blue Sox' he would have been slaughtered - just as Mr Wood has been.

   Looks like rugby league followers have all gone to 'positive - happy clappers'.Good 

I didn't realise the Liverpool Magic lost the game money, how much did we lose?

[Harry Stottle]

So the "prodigal son" that is the SL returns, Lenghan, McManus and Co have had to concede that they were wrong have come back knocking on the door to say 'sorry dad' can we come home please. Leneghan alone should feel humbled he suggested no more money should be divvied to anyone below SL level, well that plan has surely now been scuppered thank god, I have no doubt whatsoever he would have pushed for it to go through and Elstone would not have refused his paymaster general.

Mr Rimmer has always maintained that P&R should remain and he only stated that a couple of weeks ago, so to all those who wanted to cut the League's off along with a return to a closed shop, up yours.

I bet Mr Hetherington has a grin from ear to ear, I would love to see the smirk on his face when he next comes face to face with McManus.

[Harry Stottle]

46 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

We can debate whether Elstone and his media and marketing team were any good at their jobs - although we'll probably never really know as the 3 year build up to signing the new TV deal has been wrecked by this pandemic. 

But their jobs and skills are real and other sports spend far more on it than we do. RL always seems to think it can operate in a different media and economic reality to any other sport - and then wonders why we don't secure the deals and profiles they do. 

Perhaps I may be undervaluing our product, but I have never thought that any other broadcaster will give us a better deal than Sky, and that is even taking into account if Sky elects for a decrease in the next contract, so is there anything that a 'negotiator' can use to his advantage, Sky being the contract holders should be given the first refusal, has Mr Elstone got the balls to walk away, and then may have to return to accept a lower offer because he cannot better the initial proposal?

A lot of people are saying we the public as individuals should pay for 'live streaming' but if that is not done as a 'season ticket' pass enabling a guaranteed income, on top of the unknown weekly 'walk-ups how can the game budget accordingly, I believe having the income known for an extended period as in a 5 year contract is the best fit for our game, I can't see anyone other than Sky providing that.

[Bostik Bailey]

29 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So the "prodigal son" that is the SL returns, Lenghan, McManus and Co have had to concede that they were wrong have come back knocking on the door to say 'sorry dad' can we come home please. Leneghan alone should feel humbled he suggested no more money should be divvied to anyone below SL level, well that plan has surely now been scuppered thank god, I have no doubt whatsoever he would have pushed for it to go through and Elstone would not have refused his paymaster general.

Mr Rimmer has always maintained that P&R should remain and he only stated that a couple of weeks ago, so to all those who wanted to cut the League's off along with a return to a closed shop, up yours.

I bet Mr Hetherington has a grin from ear to ear, I would love to see the smirk on his face when he next comes face to face with McManus.

Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.

[M j M]

5 minutes ago, Bostik Bailey said:

Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.

If more people ran their Rugby League clubs like Gary Hetherington and less people ran their Rugby League clubs like McManus and Lenagan the sport would be in a much better financial place.

[lucky 7]

5 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Announced in the DM.  Elstone 400k.  Plush offices and cannot duplicate roles.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/article-8281071/Super-League-reunite-Rugby-Football-League-two-years-split.html

Well how can Elstone justify that sort of money?

[lucky 7]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

As a sport we have never paid big amounts for our leaders or for necessary skills. The  wonder why we have such bad marketing, PR, image, sponsorship etc.

People who do that well cost money. 

Has Elstone even got back the money to the game he's being paid?

[Harry Stottle]

19 minutes ago, Bostik Bailey said:

Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.

Mr Hetherington has got the biggest shiniest stadium to maintain, BUT he saw the game as a bigger package than the self motivated respects of some SL chairmen, and yes McManus was at the forefront along with Leneghan to ditch some quarters of the game for his/their own wellbeing.

Think about it Bostick, there was never any criticism from these two re Wheldon Rd or Belle Vue - for what it's worth Leneghan can't moan, being in a rented home - and I suppose the only way will ever know what they would have done is if Licencing comes back and standards to acheive inclusion into SL re Stadia are required.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yep. And sadly it seems slash and cut are the order of the day.

We have seen from Michael Carters comments the ideas are just to do less and less and less.

If I were a player of any talent I'd be getting my agent talking to the NRL and union today. We have already been told the story. Lower wages this year and next, lower tv deal (if one at all) next year and so on.

I think we are as close as ever to seeing the end of professional RL in this country. 

You had better find another sport to follow Scotchy if you are so disillusioned with this one.

Just saying.

[Toby Chopra]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Perhaps I may be undervaluing our product, but I have never thought that any other broadcaster will give us a better deal than Sky, and that is even taking into account if Sky elects for a decrease in the next contract, so is there anything that a 'negotiator' can use to his advantage, Sky being the contract holders should be given the first refusal, has Mr Elstone got the balls to walk away, and then may have to return to accept a lower offer because he cannot better the initial proposal?

A lot of people are saying we the public as individuals should pay for 'live streaming' but if that is not done as a 'season ticket' pass enabling a guaranteed income, on top of the unknown weekly 'walk-ups how can the game budget accordingly, I believe having the income known for an extended period as in a 5 year contract is the best fit for our game, I can't see anyone other than Sky providing that.

I don't disagree Harry with the assessment of our relationship with Sky - I think we do OK from them. 

Where I think people misunderstand Elstone's role is seeing him just as a negotiator. Signing the new deal was just the last act of a 3 year process to build up SL's brand value through modernised media presentation, scheduling and storytelling. Basically make SL more popular so when Sky comes to assess it's value to them it comes up with at least as good a figure as last time.

I think we were making progress on that front and that would have ultimately benefitted all arms of the game thanks to the revenue sharing agreement signed last year. Talk of SL taking all the revenue is unfounded. 

Everything's up in the air now of course due to the crisis, and a bout of schadenfreude is inevitable, but ultimately misplaced. When all this shakes out the biggest clubs will still be the biggest and most influential, and the financial health of the sport as a whole will still depend on the broadcasting value of the top tier. The fundamentals don't change. 

[Whippet13]

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yep. And sadly it seems slash and cut are the order of the day.

We have seen from Michael Carters comments the ideas are just to do less and less and less.

If I were a player of any talent I'd be getting my agent talking to the NRL and union today. We have already been told the story. Lower wages this year and next, lower tv deal (if one at all) next year and so on.

I think we are as close as ever to seeing the end of professional RL in this country. 

The English RFU is forceasting Covid19 will cost them £45-£50 million in 2020-21, that's plus whatever millions the other nations lose. The NRL is facing potential TV cuts of around $80 million from Nine and Fox. I dont think either will be beating down the doors of RL agents anytime soon.

There is no way professional RL is going to disappear in England. When things are back to normal there will be a demand for it and somebody will meet it, just like with every other professional sport in the world. It may change, but it's going nowhere.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm sure plenty will.

Then you and the other #Truefans can watch the game die

Yes but us #Truefans as you term us - thankyou for that accolade - will be doing our bit to keep the game going, not like those who would turn their backs. 

[M j M]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

And both will still earn comfortably more than SL players.

So you're changing your message away from "RL players will now run to these other sports"?

DNFTT people.