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RFL and SL reunite


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15 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

No it wasnt. Are you lying or confused Harry?

Nobody, at any stage, has said amatuer games cant be entertaining.

On your first point read back, I am neither a lier or confused, its on page two of this thread, and Lowdesert commented on a statement of yours.

It was you who brought up the juvenile comment about the GF and Amatuer attendances and Tommygilf then mentioned finances.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm just not really interested in your opinion on individual players. 

But if you think there arent plenty of players who could comfortably get NRL contracts your kidding yourself. 

A great sidestep as usual.

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36 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

This thread has at least 2 people telling us that the imports that come in to SL only do so because they cant get a contract elsewhere.

Yeah but one of the two is a Wigan fan,are you only allowed to have a view on Superleague if you support a Superleague club ? 

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51 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

This thread has at least 2 people telling us that the imports that come in to SL only do so because they cant get a contract elsewhere.

Didn’t know that.  Must be the way I translated it ?

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Merger of the RFL/SL makes total sense IMHO everything now must be ALL for the good of the game.

Now SL needs to step up with a new  TV deal + Championship  and sponsors and the International game needs sorting out.

On another topic RLWC 2021 needs also to step up a few gears, all very well and good with all the community focus which is excellent but commercially ?

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The 15k thing is appalling. Apprentices earn more than that. And its not like they can do another part time job because of the commitment the club requires.

Criticise the clubs paying it ? , Who are they ? , Are these players also recieving education ? , Wasn't the exception brought in when Gary suggested playing mid week ?

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12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Criticise the clubs paying it ? , Who are they ? , Are these players also recieving education ? , Wasn't the exception brought in when Gary suggested playing mid week ?

The education point I can answer. No. They sacrifice that for training.

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Names ? 

Wigan Warriors

Castleford Tigers

Leeds Rhinos

Warrington Wolves

Huddersfield Giants

St Helens

Hull FC

Wakefield Trinity

Salford Red Devils

Hull Kingston Rovers

 

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9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The education point I can answer. No. They sacrifice that for training.

Odd claim.

Many of Wakefield's academy players study at Wakefield College, as do many first team players e.g. Kirmond, Croft, Kershaw.

The academy start training at 0730 then have lessons for the rest of the morning/early afternoon, before more training in the afternoon.

I know that Michael Carter is a massive advocate of players having an education.

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2 minutes ago, M j M said:

Wigan Warriors

Castleford Tigers

Leeds Rhinos

Warrington Wolves

Huddersfield Giants

St Helens

Hull FC

Wakefield Trinity

Salford Red Devils

Hull Kingston Rovers

 

Truly appalling , imo all academy players should be recieving some formal education 

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30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I didnt say you werent allowed a view. I just said it was interesting to see the desperation to criticise SL clubs

Don't some on here like to constantly criticise the Championship Clubs as well?

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16 minutes ago, dboy said:

Odd claim.

Many of Wakefield's academy players study at Wakefield College, as do many first team players e.g. Kirmond, Croft, Kershaw.

The academy start training at 0730 then have lessons for the rest of the morning/early afternoon, before more training in the afternoon.

I know that Michael Carter is a massive advocate of players having an education.

That hasn't been my experience and in all cases I've seen education has been compromised at least in some part. 

Some teams may be better than others but undoubtedly it has a negative educational impact and is not recompensed anywhere near enough.

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That hasn't been my experience and in all cases I've seen education has been compromised at least in some part. 

Some teams may be better than others but undoubtedly it has a negative educational impact and is not recompensed anywhere near enough.

So you are saying Leeds along with all the others aren't doing their jobs properly ?

Naughty , naughty 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

So you are saying Leeds along with all the others aren't doing their jobs properly ?

Naughty , naughty 

I'm saying being a first team full time squad member requires sacrifice for young players beyond what it should be. That said I don't think there is any official rules being broken - other sports are the same, just better principles that should be adopted and better financial rewards.

We've actually had this discussion before regarding the wages of players 23, 24 and 25 in a super league squad and how they are used to come under the salary cap, but it seems its only a worthy discussion point now? Hmmm.

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm saying being a first team full time squad member requires sacrifice for young players beyond what it should be. That said I don't think there is any official rules being broken - other sports are the same, just better principles that should be adopted and better financial rewards.

We've actually had this discussion before regarding the wages of players 23, 24 and 25 in a super league squad and how they are used to come under the salary cap, but it seems its only a worthy discussion point now? Hmmm.

Yes I think we might have , and yes they do sacrifice beyond what they should , but it comes down to like everything in RL , money 

I do believe that all academy players should receive some formal education , even to the point of refusing to sign those that don't want to do it , unlikely I know , but that is how I see it 

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Yep, especially considering that though Sky own the rights to the championship and dont bother screening them, we can pretty conclusively know where the value lay

Maybe the television 'personalities',like the journalists,prefer to go to stadia that give them the best 'hospitality' - with the bestest chips.

If Championship,and League 1 clubs,had all the money Super League clubs had over the years,they could probably supply exactly the same.

 It was Elstone who met with television people in France...and the Catalans lost their television coverage.

 Why hasn't the salary for Elstone been paid by the Super League club owners who wanted him?  

  If the RFL was so bad,why were the staff taken by Elstone?

  With all that money,full time coaches and full time players,for all those years,those Super League clubs,and their owners,really didn't like playing Championship clubs,did they? 

  

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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6 hours ago, M j M said:

**consults the figures**

In the past decade St Helens have made cumulative losses of £13.5m

In the past decade Wigan have made cumulative losses of £3.4m

In the past decade Leeds have made cumulative profits of £6.1m

That's a pretty ignorant and simplistic view. Saints were in severe danger of going bust prior to his ownership. Aside from covering losses himself, McManus has also overseen the financial transformation of the club, moving from Knowsley Road (which at one point was estimated to be costing the club £1m a year just to keep safe) to a brand new wholly owned stadium, attracted further external investment to avoid reliance on one individual, significantly increased revenue (by 60% in the period to which you refer) to a position of self sustainability with zero debt whilst also being one of the most successful clubs on the field.

To do so in a sport which hasn't really experienced growth as a whole in that same period, in a region of very limited affluence is pretty impressive.

For all his flaws and mistakes over the years, the idea that you want less people like that involved in the sport is ridiculous. Willy wanging ownership comparisons based solely on historical profit values is a petty and futile exercise.

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3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

No they didnt like playing them, people didnt watch.

Considering how terrible all the SL clubs are it's a mystery why they havent just been taken over by the ubermenschen of the league below

 Yea,with all this obsession with money,maybe the time has come for the example of association football clubs to be followed and have rich foreign owners.

  If only the sport,after all these years had,expanded to Russia,the USA and Saudi Arabia,in a big way,to become of interest to really wealthy individuals.

  With all the television coverage of Super League clubs the lack of progress is mystifying,ain't it?

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The 15k thing is appalling. Apprentices earn more than that. And its not like they can do another part time job because of the commitment the club requires.

This isnt true, theres a 'getting to know' feature on Leeds website where they ask the players where they work or study, nearly every Leeds Academy player interviewed has either got a job, is still in some form of education or both

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37 minutes ago, Moove said:

That's a pretty ignorant and simplistic view. Saints were in severe danger of going bust prior to his ownership. Aside from covering losses himself, McManus has also overseen the financial transformation of the club, moving from Knowsley Road (which at one point was estimated to be costing the club £1m a year just to keep safe) to a brand new wholly owned stadium, attracted further external investment to avoid reliance on one individual, significantly increased revenue (by 60% in the period to which you refer) to a position of self sustainability with zero debt whilst also being one of the most successful clubs on the field.

To do so in a sport which hasn't really experienced growth as a whole in that same period, in a region of very limited affluence is pretty impressive.

For all his flaws and mistakes over the years, the idea that you want less people like that involved in the sport is ridiculous. Willy wanging ownership comparisons based solely on historical profit values is a petty and futile exercise.

Sorry to have hit a nerve. But it wasn't me who was willy wanging - it was a poster who claimed the McManus model was one to follow and decrying the work of the only club boss who has turned his business into a consistently, long-term profitable one. We want RL clubs to be run in a way that doesn't require external investors to prop them up - I'm not in any way suggesting they aren't welcome in the sport but St Helens and Wigan decried the RFL for the way they ran the sport so it is only fair to check out if either of them are currently sustainable businesses - and we know they are not.

And "zero debt"... please... all they've done is convert £20m of debt to equity because they know it would never be repaid. It's hardly a badge of success.

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