Return to Winter Rugby League ?

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Talking about the Rugby Union season, Shaun Edwards had this to say on Rugby League

Quote

I wouldn’t move the northern hemisphere game to the summer. Rugby league did it and people like my dad find the winters so long. The fans are key to the game, and a winter game means interesting tactical adaptations.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8280997/Plotting-rugbys-future-Cut-salaries-cut-matches-solve-ongoing-north-south-divide.html

If there is any intention to have games attended by spectators this season, then the League season will extend into the winter months. Thee are points in favour of this:

• Firstly spectator facilities are not as basic now- certainly not at the majority of top flight clubs - as they were back in 1995
• Clubs would benefit at the gate from Christmas and New Year fixtures as well as Easter.
• International Rugby League would be in season and not played by the last men standing at the fag end of the season - Proper tours could return
• Rugby League would move from a crowded summer market competing with a lot of sports and global events to a less crowded winter one
• League is being played in the Northern Hemisphere from the last week in January to the end of November so why not swap this with July and August which are peak holiday times for families.

If you intend to re-think a sport as the pandemic gives Rugby League the opportunity to do, then its not just the case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titantic by playing fantasy Rugby League with favoured clubs in the top flight, or cutting duplicate administrative functions. It's about creating a strategic vision for the future and that will involve considering all aspects of the game and its positioning in the market, and to do that you cannot have "sacred cows" in the game whose status is untouchable and you need to think outside the box and challenge conventional wisdom.

But that's enough cliche's from me,  I put it to this board as we seem to be playing Rugby League ten months of the year anyway, what is wrong with re-alinging those ten months to have a winter based game rather than a summer one.

 

 

[Bostik Bailey]

28 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Talking about the Rugby Union season, Shaun Edwards had this to say on Rugby League

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8280997/Plotting-rugbys-future-Cut-salaries-cut-matches-solve-ongoing-north-south-divide.html

If there is any intention to have games attended by spectators this season, then the League season will extend into the winter months. Thee are points in favour of this:

• Firstly spectator facilities are not as basic now- certainly not at the majority of top flight clubs - as they were back in 1995
• Clubs would benefit at the gate from Christmas and New Year fixtures as well as Easter.
• International Rugby League would be in season and not played by the last men standing at the fag end of the season - Proper tours could return
• Rugby League would move from a crowded summer market competing with a lot of sports and global events to a less crowded winter one
• League is being played in the Northern Hemisphere from the last week in January to the end of November so why not swap this with July and August which are peak holiday times for families.

If you intend to re-think a sport as the pandemic gives Rugby League the opportunity to do, then its not just the case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titantic by playing fantasy Rugby League with favoured clubs in the top flight, or cutting duplicate administrative functions. It's about creating a strategic vision for the future and that will involve considering all aspects of the game and its positioning in the market, and to do that you cannot have "sacred cows" in the game whose status is untouchable and you need to think outside the box and challenge conventional wisdom.

But that's enough cliche's from me,  I put it to this board as we seem to be playing Rugby League ten months of the year anyway, what is wrong with re-alinging those ten months to have a winter based game rather than a summer one.

 

 

Not been to Wheldon Road or Bell Vue recently then or been an away speecy  at Headingly? These haven’t change significantly changed since then. 
 

oh sorry Bell Vue now has a roof and some potacabins in the sky

[Man of Kent]

Football though

[Rupert Prince]

9 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Football though

Its not just the competition. Several clubs play in shared stadiums.  Would that work in winter.  I suspect not.

But otherwise I would go back to "winter" with a January break.  But I believe my point above is a killer.

But I think we need fewer games, no matter what the season. And we need a settled organisation and are structure... And some coherent options to discuss.

[wiganermike]

The presence of a World Cup a couple of months into a hypothetical 2021/22 winter season would throw a large spanner in the works too.

[The 4 of Us]

Whatever RL’s problems are, they are not “summer rugby“, although in reality the game is played in exactly the same months as it ever was, other than swapping the worst 3 weather wise (save February into which we have drifted back) for the best 3. Granted that encroaches into school summer holidays but that’s only 6 weeks.  
 

Not sure Shaun Edward’s comments add to the situation. His reference to “interesting” tactical considerations is presumably ability to play in suitably dire weather. It’s another of those “subtle nuisances“ we keep hearing about, that we mere RL fans are unable to understand. Like many other things with the other game, there’s more than a hint of emperors new clothes about them. 

[gingerjon]

50 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

• Rugby League would move from a crowded summer market competing with a lot of sports and global events to a less crowded winter one

It's competition with soccer that's the killer. We can mitigate everything else.

I prefer summer rugby but I'm not going to make it a culture war argument. If we play in the winter then we play in the winter. But to pretend the winter has less competition is ... I'll be kind ... fanciful.

[Trojan]

12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's competition with soccer that's the killer. We can mitigate everything else.

I prefer summer rugby but I'm not going to make it a culture war argument. If we play in the winter then we play in the winter. But to pretend the winter has less competition is ... I'll be kind ... fanciful.

But Union have grown their crowds playing in winter, in competition with soccer.  The spectator facilities have improved, teams would no longer be playing on little better than a ploughed field, and ok  there'd be soccer. But there'd be no Olympics, soccer Euros or World Cups,no cricket 20/20's or whatever this new format is on TV.   Most people wouldn't be on holiday, or attending barbecues either.  TBH I never understood the move to summer in the first place.  It was presented like the rest of the SL deal as a fait accompli by you know who. Certainly no one asked me!    I reckon this break is the ideal opportunity to acknowledge a mistake and put it right.  I wasn't really possible before, now it is.

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, shawcross said:

But Union have grown their crowds playing in winter, in competition with soccer.

Grown their crowds but are set to lose massive amounts of money and, it's being reported, at least one top tier club is facing collapse if there's any further delay to live games. So it's not all positive and that's for a sport that has a massive advantage over us in terms of their financial and establishment connections.

On a practical level, playing in winter would be bad for clubs who groundshare with a football club because it's part of the FA rules that soccer always has primacy of tenure.

Like I say, I'm far more ambivalent about it than some but I wouldn't present winter as a guaranteed success. (And, given that we've been a summer sport for 24 years, there's a whole generation of fans who've never know different.)

[Oxford]

SL rejoins RFL, Winter Rugby comes Back on the say so of someone in yoonion and so all we need is the resurrection of Eddie Waring and Bill Fallowfield and we'll have a nap hand.

Cue Largo from The New World Symphony and "It were just after the war and me Mam and me we nt down t't cave and rolled back the bloody big stone over't entrance and ..........."

 

[Toby Chopra]

8 minutes ago, shawcross said:

But Union have grown their crowds playing in winter, in competition with soccer.  The spectator facilities have improved, teams would no longer be playing on little better than a ploughed field, and ok  there'd be soccer. But there'd be no Olympics, soccer Euros or World Cups,no cricket 20/20's or whatever this new format is on TV.   Most people wouldn't be on holiday, or attending barbecues either.  TBH I never understood the move to summer in the first place.  It was presented like the rest of the SL deal as a fait accompli by you know who. Certainly no one asked me!    I reckon this break is the ideal opportunity to acknowledge a mistake and put it right.  I wasn't really possible before, now it is.

I don't know whether summer rugby was a mistake or not - I'm not sure you can compare the conditions of a quarter of a century ago to now to really draw a conclusion. But I agree that the supposed competition in each part of the year shouldn't be the main driver of the decision, especially as we clash with football six months of the year as it is. If the rest of the product is worth watching, I bet SL viewing figures would be higher in Dec-Jan vs July-Aug. 

I'd be open minded to the conversation, provided it was a professional assessment of the facts in 2020, not just a pining for days past. Bigger question for me is even if the pro game switched back to winter, would/should the community game follow suit? 

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

not just a pining for days past.

 

[Trojan]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Grown their crowds but are set to lose massive amounts of money and, it's being reported, at least one top tier club is facing collapse if there's any further delay to live games. So it's not all positive and that's for a sport that has a massive advantage over us in terms of their financial and establishment connections.

On a practical level, playing in winter would be bad for clubs who groundshare with a football club because it's part of the FA rules that soccer always has primacy of tenure.

Like I say, I'm far more ambivalent about it than some but I wouldn't present winter as a guaranteed success. (And, given that we've been a summer sport for 24 years, there's a whole generation of fans who've never know different.)

Huddersfield, Wigan, Hull all share with League clubs, and are already affected for a substantial part of their seasons.  I know soccer is played at Widnes, but isn't that Liverpool and Everton second teams.  They play soccer at Saints, but I believe Saints own the ground,  not sure of the situation re Leigh and York. But I'm sure ways could be found.

[Tommygilf]

No way.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, shawcross said:

Huddersfield, Wigan, Hull all share with League clubs, and are already affected for a substantial part of their seasons.  I know soccer is played at Widnes, but isn't that Liverpool and Everton second teams.  They play soccer at Saints, but I believe Saints own the ground,  not sure of the situation re Leigh and York. But I'm sure ways could be found.

So those clubs would now be affected for all their seasons, rather than part of it.

I think it's Man United Women at Leigh so doubtful that there would be an issue. York's new ground would, I assume, be under exactly the same arrangement as any other share.

Like I say, it's clearly not straightforward and pretending it is doesn't help anyone.

[Trojan]

16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

So those clubs would now be affected for all their seasons, rather than part of it.

I think it's Man United Women at Leigh so doubtful that there would be an issue. York's new ground would, I assume, be under exactly the same arrangement as any other share.

Like I say, it's clearly not straightforward and pretending it is doesn't help anyone.

London Irish share the Madjeski with Reading, Bristol share Ashton Gate with City.  They manage, I'm sure our clubs would.

[Toby Chopra]

11 minutes ago, shawcross said:

London Irish share the Madjeski with Reading, Bristol share Ashton Gate with City.  They manage, I'm sure our clubs would.

Yep, it's a non-issue for me with modern pitch management.  And fixture clashes would be managed just as they are now. It's only really the odd clash on Friday night that's the problem and given Sky are the rights holder for both SL and EFL I can see a way through. 

Difficult to know what Sky would make of it. Given BT now have almost all union and European football, they might like a bit more Thursday/Saturday content throughout the winter to fight them with. But going head-to-head all season long on Fridays with their own EFL games seems like mining the same seam. 

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Yep, it's a non-issue for me with modern pitch management.  And fixture clashes would be managed just as they are now. It's only really the odd clash on Friday night that's the problem and given Sky are the rights holder for both SL and EFL I can see a way through. 

Difficult to know what Sky would make of it. Given BT now have almost all union and European football, they might like a bit more Thursday/Saturday content throughout the winter to fight them with. But going head-to-head all season long on Fridays with their own EFL games seems like mining the same seam. 

As expected, the quickest of googles and there are examples of London Irish not being able to play important fixtures at home because the football club tell them they can’t.

[Toby Chopra]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

As expected, the quickest of googles and there are examples of London Irish not being able to play important fixtures at home because the football club tell them they can’t.

Sure, but that happens already for us in the 6 months of the year we do clash. Is another 2 months of it really a deal breaker? I suspect ee'd find a way round like we do now. 

[headtackle]

With climate change and mild winters we should start the season on Boxing Day 

take advantage of the huge Boxing Day and New Years gates   Have a mid season break

[gingerjon]

25 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Sure, but that happens already for us in the 6 months of the year we do clash. Is another 2 months of it really a deal breaker? I suspect ee'd find a way round like we do now. 

No, it’s not a deal breaker but it’s also not something made easier by the switch - and the implication is that winter may be easier for the game overall . I don’t see it myself.

[DoubleD]

I can’t believe people are even paying this any consideration...........I suppose it is akin to off season nonsense

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, shawcross said:

London Irish share the Madjeski with Reading, Bristol share Ashton Gate with City.  They manage, I'm sure our clubs would.

Irish are leaving there to go to community stadium with Brentford and Bristol are owned by the same guy as City.

[M j M]

Can I just check that I'm understanding this correctly? Because this entire story appears to be founded on resolving the problem of Shaun Edwards' dad getting a bit bored in winter and that the solution to this problem is changing the whole axis of the sport's domestic and international calendars.

Can't he just take up billiards or something?

[Marty Funkhouser]

It is certainly worth a discussion and does have some big positives as Rooster has listed. There are also some good arguments against.

However if the game wants to continue fully professional then SKY (or any alternative rights holder) would ultimately decide this rather than Rugby League.