Jump to content

How do you revitalise the Challenge Cup?


Recommended Posts


  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 minute ago, Gooleboy said:

If they are all under one banner and he keeps his job he wouldn't just be working for SL, so a nice project for him.

Nah I think he works essentially in the same way now just with the RFL above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simple, 12 SL clubs join when the rest are down to last 4 to make 4 groups of 4.

Round robin groups, with at least 1 SL standard game per group per round to televise. 

Members both home and away get £5 tickets for adults, £2.50 concessions to group stage games. 

Top 2 of each group qualify for quarters. Play on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Mister Ting said:

 

Since 2018 the attendance at CC Finals does not include the Club Wembley seats.

However, whilst the attendance at the 2017 Final, Wigan v Hull, is given as 68,528 Brent Council after a FOI request gave a figure of 54,324 and in 2019 Warrington and Saints attracted just 62717.  

So how the hell do we get a full house if those four teams fall 30-40,000 short of filling the stadium?

People on here say ‘The RFL should promote the Final better’ but what is the financial cost to The RFL to attract these people and have them pay the actual cost of a ticket and not give tickets away for a tenner.

I do not buy into the argument that taking the game away from Wembley will devalue our sport.  We live in an age where perception matters.  A half or three quarter filled Wembley gives an awful impression but a vibrant capacity stadium elsewhere can transform perception of floating viewers and attract newcomers from those areas to the game.

..... stops typing until the gnashing of teeth of some posters on here stops .....

Have a guess of the average attendance for the NFL Super Bowl over the last 6 years ..... it is 68,715.

So why is it so wrong to adopt the same model and take the games to stadiums that have capacities between 55k (Etihad Stadium) to 74k (Principality Stadium).  The 3 years we were at the Principality Stadium were virtually sell outs.

If the RFL put the Final out to tender then a capacity crowd of 55,000 where supporters pay a price commensurate with a showpiece event will bring in roughly the same amount of a 75,000 crowd at Wembley where 20,000 tickets are virtually given away.

The days of 90,000 crowds at Wembley are about as fanciful of me winning the Grand National ..... as a horse!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I do not buy into the argument that taking the game away from Wembley will devalue our sport.  We live in an age where perception matters.  A half or three quarter filled Wembley gives an awful impression but a vibrant capacity stadium elsewhere can transform perception of floating viewers and attract newcomers from those areas to the game.

I completely agree.

By doing as you suggest and moving the final around, it gives you more flexibility to choose an appropriate venue for that particular year.

For example, if it's not a home Ashes year, you might sometimes want to take the CC Final to London (Spurs, Emirates, West Ham, maybe even Wembley) - since there wouldn't be a big international match in London that year.

Whereas in a year where you've got the Aussies/Kiwis coming over and you want to use Wembley or another big London stadium for a test match (and you want the northern heartlands support to come to London to provide the foundation for a big crowd), you can play the CC final that year in e.g. Cardiff, Newcastle, Liverpool - so that people aren't having to pay out for repeated trips to the same place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I completely agree.

By doing as you suggest and moving the final around, it gives you more flexibility to choose an appropriate venue for that particular year.

For example, if it's not a home Ashes year, you might sometimes want to take the CC Final to London (Spurs, Emirates, West Ham, maybe even Wembley) - since there wouldn't be a big international match in London that year.

Whereas in a year where you've got the Aussies/Kiwis coming over and you want to use Wembley or another big London stadium for a test match (and you want the northern heartlands support to come to London to provide the foundation for a big crowd), you can play the CC final that year in e.g. Cardiff, Newcastle, Liverpool - so that people aren't having to pay out for repeated trips to the same place.

I like this idea a lot. The Wembley mystique is gone now, isn't coming back, and it isn't even the best stadium in London anymore, so let's not be wedded to it. If anything the problems with filling Wembley do more harm to the Challenge Cup's image than any image boost from playing there. A trip to an industrial estate in northwest London just doesn't cut it the modern era and it doesn't attract southern fans in the way internationals do. Play it on a rotation in places that people might actually want to go like Cardiff, Newcastle, Edinburgh and, as you say, once every few years even London. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

1990-99 - 9 different finalists.

2000-09 - 9 different finalists.  

2010-19 - 8 different finalists. 

 

There are other ways you can look at that, though:

  • 8 or 9 different finalists in each 10 year period, but 20 spots available.
  • It's not cumulative.  I make it 13 finalists over 30 years (i.e. 13 of 60 spots available) BUT, of those, five have only appeared once: Hull KR, Huddersfield, Sheffield, London and Widnes.  So 8 teams have filled 55 of the 60 available final spots.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like the venue to move about.  London's horrendously expensive if you want to stay over for the match and I like the variety.  Reducing the round robin SL fixtures would boost the appeal a lot I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Simple, 12 SL clubs join when the rest are down to last 4 to make 4 groups of 4.

Round robin groups, with at least 1 SL standard game per group per round to televise. 

Members both home and away get £5 tickets for adults, £2.50 concessions to group stage games. 

Top 2 of each group qualify for quarters. Play on.

Regular rounds need to be included in season tickets to draw crowds. I would include Super League and Championship clubs in 4 groups of 5 (2 home and 2 away games) winners of each group straight into the semi final.

Or 12 Super league clubs join 4 championship clubs to make the last 16 which is played as magic weekend. The early rounds could be played pre season so fixtures are known well ahead of the event.

You could even have a mini magic weekend for the quarter final and then the double header for the semi final. 3 events cities could bid to host in a tender format (4 if the final moves around)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Since 2018 the attendance at CC Finals does not include the Club Wembley seats.

However, whilst the attendance at the 2017 Final, Wigan v Hull, is given as 68,528 Brent Council after a FOI request gave a figure of 54,324 and in 2019 Warrington and Saints attracted just 62717.  

So how the hell do we get a full house if those four teams fall 30-40,000 short of filling the stadium?

People on here say ‘The RFL should promote the Final better’ but what is the financial cost to The RFL to attract these people and have them pay the actual cost of a ticket and not give tickets away for a tenner.

I do not buy into the argument that taking the game away from Wembley will devalue our sport.  We live in an age where perception matters.  A half or three quarter filled Wembley gives an awful impression but a vibrant capacity stadium elsewhere can transform perception of floating viewers and attract newcomers from those areas to the game.

..... stops typing until the gnashing of teeth of some posters on here stops .....

Have a guess of the average attendance for the NFL Super Bowl over the last 6 years ..... it is 68,715.

So why is it so wrong to adopt the same model and take the games to stadiums that have capacities between 55k (Etihad Stadium) to 74k (Principality Stadium).  The 3 years we were at the Principality Stadium were virtually sell outs.

If the RFL put the Final out to tender then a capacity crowd of 55,000 where supporters pay a price commensurate with a showpiece event will bring in roughly the same amount of a 75,000 crowd at Wembley where 20,000 tickets are virtually given away.

The days of 90,000 crowds at Wembley are about as fanciful of me winning the Grand National ..... as a horse!

 

 

No often we agree , pretty much as I posted yesterday 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Regular rounds need to be included in season tickets to draw crowds. I would include Super League and Championship clubs in 4 groups of 5 (2 home and 2 away games) winners of each group straight into the semi final.

Or 12 Super league clubs join 4 championship clubs to make the last 16 which is played as magic weekend. The early rounds could be played pre season so fixtures are known well ahead of the event.

You could even have a mini magic weekend for the quarter final and then the double header for the semi final. 3 events cities could bid to host in a tender format (4 if the final moves around)

Any group games removes any chance of a lower tier club making the last 8 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Any group games removes any chance of a lower tier club making the last 8 

No it doesn’t. If they are good enough, they can do it and they will deserve it. 

Perhaps the metric of success would be that a lower grade club makes the group stages at all. Anything extra is a bonus. Much like about 33% of the nations that qualify for FIFA World Cups would see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

If you were a neutral supporter where would you spend roughly £100 for an event. 

1 - Challenge Cup Final

2 - Magic Weekend

I'd pick no.2, i'd get so much more value for money. It feels like a bigger event, than the challenge cup. 

Since the introduction of magic weekend has that been inline with the drop in crowd of the challenge cup? 

Rugby League supporters I would imagine couldn't afford to do both?

Maybe but if I was taking my 2 boys (13 and 15 and both neutrals) the Challenge Cup Final would be the better alternative.  Magic is too much League for most and their complaining would be annoying.  Big event, one off game for a shiny prize would be perfect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

No often we agree , pretty much as I posted yesterday 

I was actually agreeing with your post but when I was half way through my Opus Magnum I realised I was responding to a quote from someone else.

As I didn’t want to start all over again I just deleted Mister Tings comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the introduction of the elitist SL it cant be done same with association football with the EPL their FA cup competition has become less important.  I'm not knocking SL or EPL concept ,but that's the way it is 

 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

Have the final in May 3OClock kick off on grandstand and make sure that the teams journey from their hotel to Wembley is televised life.

Grandstand ? I thought that ended many years ago . know what you mean though , in those days it meant towns like Featherstone , leigh etc had their spot in the sun . All gone now 

 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scrap Magic Weekend

Stick to a May final 

  Bring the Superleague teams in earlier & play tied on consecutive weeks up until the semi finals 

Ban anyone who suggests playing 9s as a solution from attending any fixture 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, scotchy1 said:

It creates better match ups.in the bigger games.

I agree the cup is slowly dying, I'm just not sure what problem changing seeding would solve?

It just creates endless Super League matchups we’ve already seen and those reruns which are hardly pulling in crowds.

I used to enjoy the rarity value of a good local derby in the cup, now they’re ten a penny to the point where even Wigan are struggling to pull in big crowds.

The whole point of a cup is surely the interaction of teams of differing standards - if it’s not then end it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

It just creates endless Super League matchups we’ve already seen and those reruns which are hardly pulling in crowds.

I used to enjoy the rarity value of a good local derby in the cup, now they’re ten a penny to the point where even Wigan are struggling to pull in big crowds.

The whole point of a cup is surely the interaction of teams of differing standards - if it’s not then end it now.

I agree with you about the problem of too many all SL ties once the SL teams come in under the current format. In the draw for round 6 this year we (Wigan) were drawn to play Warrington for the fourth year in a row. In any given year under the current format when the top 8 from the prior season come in even if the other 4 SL teams had gone out in round 5 then each of those 8 teams has a 7 in 15 chance of drawing a fellow SL club. If all SL teams are still in the draw it is an 11 in 15 chance. Probability says more often than not SL draws SL at the last 16 stage.

Returning to a more traditional format and bringing in the 12 SL clubs for the last 32 would give a greater chance for a non SL team to draw a big name. It also provides one more opportunity for one or more of the usual suspects to get knocked off the cup trail and so increases, however slightly, the opportunity for a club that doesn't get to Wembley as often to do it. You still will get a lot of all SL ties as the competition goes on (probably including the odd Wigan v Warrington tie too) but there will be a greater opportunity for variety (and money spinners for the smaller clubs) in amongst those ties, at least early on in the competition. I know some people will moan about mismatches but ties against lower division teams give an opportunity to rest weary bodies and blood a few youngsters and can swell the coffers for the smaller club. I would also suggest that cross division ties should be hosted by the lower division team as they would probably have a better chance of a big crowd with the rare visit of a big club than a bigger club hosting a tie that most fans will view as a certain win and not bother to go to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

£5,000,000 Prize Money, straight knock out, winner takes all. 90% split between Players, amounts depending on how many Cup Games each player featured in. Prize Distributions published. 10% Split equally between fans registered with the winning Club on ouRLeague. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To re-energise the Challenge Cup the game needs to get the whole RL community to buy in not just armchair supporters who think it’s the sole property of Superleague.

Is it possible,who knows but dispensing with seeding and giving amateur,L1and   and to a lesser extent championship teams a chance of ties against Superleague teams might be a start and is surely worth a try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.