Championship and League 1 clubs accept null and void reality

[davet]

I would presume that if the season is cancelled, which it looks more and more will be the case in my eyes, it will be down to each club to offer refunds for ST's and then up to each individual whether they want to take the refund or not.

I am not concerned about taking the money back or asking for something for next season. I will pay whatever the price is for next season when that time comes.

Granted, i maybe in a different situation to others but the above is just my thought/opinion.

[wiganermike]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thats a strawman and in any case would expect those people to do it quietly. Its the people who are essentially economically fine for the moment having a whine on Facebook who need to question what they are doing.

It isn't a strawman. Not everyone will be in the same position financially and while some will be able to shrug it off and write off that money others won't. I agree whining on social media about it isn't a good thing but that doesn't mean that some people won't need to try to reclaim the money they have spent. Those that do shouldn't be condemned for it.

[gingerjon]

Just now, davet said:

I would presume that if the season is cancelled, which it looks more and more will be the case in my eyes, it will be down to each club to offer refunds for ST's and then up to each individual whether they want to take the refund or not.

I am not concerned about taking the money back or asking for something for next season. I will pay whatever the price is for next season when that time comes.

Granted, i maybe in a different situation to others but the above is just my thought/opinion.

If it follows the pattern that some arts venues have offered it will be something like: you can have a full refund or you can choose to convert all or part of your ticket/membership into a donation. (For rugby, without the Gift Aid implications of that conversion.)

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

That's a bit harsh!

Nah Toby its really annoyed me. Perhaps because I'm a Leeds United fan whose grown up with the majority of my life being spent in the second and third division, but I value the solidarity and support fans give to clubs in hard times. You stick together through ups and downs and that is what makes you quite literally a "supporter". 

Stabbing the club in the back for 200 or so quid when clubs will almost certainly feel the need to act in good will somewhere later on just needs someone to have a word and remind people of the big picture. It just feels wrong to me. 

[Harry Stottle]

Just looking at this Headline again for this thread by TRL, that is not really the case though is it?

Championship and League 1 clubs accept null and void reality.

 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, wiganermike said:

It isn't a strawman. Not everyone will be in the same position financially and while some will be able to shrug it off and write off that money others won't. I agree whining on social media about it isn't a good thing but that doesn't mean that some people won't need to try to reclaim the money they have spent. Those that do shouldn't be condemned for it.

1 person paying for 5 season tickets then being laid off is a bit of a strawman to me I'm afraid. If financials were so precarious then the vast number of flexipay schemes would be affected in which case its more like pausing sky sports.

As i put in another post perhaps my experience is tainted by growing up supporting a team in desperate need of support and a culture that acting against that team was betrayal.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Clubs won't be able to afford the insurance.

Nor the testing that would be required. 

[Toby Chopra]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Nah Toby its really annoyed me. Perhaps because I'm a Leeds United fan whose grown up with the majority of my life being spent in the second and third division, but I value the solidarity and support fans give to clubs in hard times. You stick together through ups and downs and that is what makes you quite literally a "supporter". 

Stabbing the club in the back for 200 or so quid when clubs will almost certainly feel the need to act in good will somewhere later on just needs someone to have a word and remind people of the big picture. It just feels wrong to me. 

I get that clubs need to ask for forebearance, and should absolutely make it clear to fans what the implications are if they all ask for refunds. And that will probably be enough for most fans to consider it if they can.

But to say to someone that they are a backstabbing Judas if they don't do what the club asks is a sure fire way to alienate them for good, and seems an incredible sense of entitlement by the club. This has surprised me, Tommy, you're not normally one of those who goes down the road of fan "purity tests"!  

[wiganermike]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

1 person paying for 5 season tickets then being laid off is a bit of a strawman to me I'm afraid. If financials were so precarious then the vast number of flexipay schemes would be affected in which case its more like pausing sky sports.

As i put in another post perhaps my experience is tainted by growing up supporting a team in desperate need of support and a culture that acting against that team was betrayal.

Ignore the arbitrary numbers then if you like but many people will lose or have already lost their jobs. The basic point remains the same. Not everyone will be in the same boat financially and if someone needs to try to get their money back then they shouldn't be criticised for doing so.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And if you lose your job? Are struggling to pay the mortgage, etc?

The reason I mentioned the business model is because hand outs wont sustain a club for long and can become a bit of a false economy. Fans who pay for nothing this year will be reticent to do so again next year.

Those than can afford it however, great. Give what you can

I appreciate that I know people who paid 500 quid or so for Bradford Bulls at the time and know how that has affected their feelings towards the club.

I also know people who were paying premier league season tickets to a football club in the third division for the first time in its history during (up to now) the worst financial downturn in living memory. It just feels wrong to abandon a club in a time of hardship.

[Hela Wigmen]

People can do what they want. If they want to stop supporting a club, they can. If they want to start supporting another club, they can. It’s really not a big deal. 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Ignore the arbitrary numbers then if you like but many people will lose or have already lost their jobs. The basic point remains the same. Not everyone will be in the same boat financially and if someone needs to try to get their money back then they shouldn't be criticised for doing so.

By the same measure though Mike the people complaining on social media aren't saying "I've lost my job" either. I think there's a difference and other supporters can have a valid view that somewhat cynically seeking to get money back from the club now is an act against them as supporters.

I understand not everyone's in the same boat financially. I personally didn't renew my YCCC membership this year as they more than trebled the price on 2 years ago and removed 1st class OD games. It wasn't worth the investment to me. 

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I get that clubs need to ask for forebearance, and should absolutely make it clear to fans what the implications are if they all ask for refunds. And that will probably be enough for most fans to consider it if they can.

But to say to someone that they are a backstabbing Judas if they don't do what the club asks is a sure fire way to alienate them for good, and seems an incredible sense of entitlement by the club. This has surprised me, Tommy, you're not normally one of those who goes down the road of fan "purity tests"!  

Haha it's not a purity test for me Toby, it just really annoys me sadly. Like I said I think its been shaped by following previously successful clubs during very hard times.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

People can do what they want. If they want to stop supporting a club, they can. If they want to start supporting another club, they can. It’s really not a big deal. 

Really? supporting a club is much more than just turning up and paying the entrance fee, I have never understood how anyone could be a fervent fan and then switch allegiance to another, personally I have been to grounds to watch games that "my team"  be that Leigh Centurions or GB/England or not playing in and therefore I am merely a spectator of the proceedings in front of me, I don't feel the passion, involvement, belonging, being part of etc, etc.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Really? supporting a club is much more than just turning up and paying the entrance fee, I have never understood how anyone could be a fervent fan and then switch allegiance to another, personally I have been to grounds to watch games that "my team"  be that Leigh Centurions or GB/England or not playing in and therefore I am merely a spectator of the proceedings in front of me, I don't feel the passion, involvement, belonging, being part of etc, etc.

Yeah, people can do what they want. People have their own reasons for doing things and it’s not a big deal about what others are doing or what others think of you. 

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's not really about abandoning for me.

Its about clubs adaptation.

I said elsewhere, I think clubs should offer refunds, but also offer an alternative if you dont take the refund. Something pretty cheap but a bit more 'money cant buy'. 

Names on a thank you wall, a parade on the pitch, a personalized thank you from the players, a chance to be in a training session, an elite tier membership etc. Anything you can imagine really. 

 

I think that's fine and clubs should be looking at what they can do regarding this absolutely.

I just really don't like the idea of so called "supporters" turning around and saying "I haven't got what I paid for I want my money back" like they were buying a hoover from argos.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

Yeah, people can do what they want. People have their own reasons for doing things and it’s not a big deal about what others are doing or what others think of you. 

If you want to get philosophical being part of a group and being aware and attentive to what others think of you has driven human activity since day dot.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Yeah, people can do what they want. People have their own reasons for doing things and it’s not a big deal about what others are doing or what others think of you. 

Yep fair comment Hela, just as a matter of interest how long have you been a Saints fan?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Needs must. 

And personally I'm not sure why a guy like caddick who is worth hundreds of millions of pounds needs my money. It wouldn't make a noticeable dent in his personal fortune. 

By that logic we should all attend for free. Its our financial investment that gives us a stake in the club.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Needs must. 

And personally I'm not sure why a guy like caddick who is worth hundreds of millions of pounds needs my money. It wouldn't make a noticeable dent in his personal fortune. 

So what would it cost Caddick to refund all the season ticket sales?

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep fair comment Hela, just as a matter of interest how long have you been a Saints fan?

Since birth. 

I would definitely say that the changing/adjusting of support is more prevalent in football than rugby league, though. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Since birth. 

I would definitely say that the changing/adjusting of support is more prevalent in football than rugby league, though. 

How long is that then.

Again people on here use Football as a comparison, why?

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

How long is that then.

Again people on here use Football as a comparison, why?

Nearly 30 years. 

Because that’s the experiences I have with this. I’ve seen less people talk of changing teams or walking away from a club in Rugby League than I have in Football. In Football, it’s almost a badge of honour when someone changes from a top club to a lower league one or a non-league club. 

[Angelic Cynic]

22 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

People can do what they want. If they want to stop supporting a club, they can. If they want to start supporting another club, they can. It’s really not a big deal. 

Losing supporters from the sport is really a big deal,though.

As it stands the majority of rugby league followers can be termed 'mature'.It is probably best we avoid emulating our friend Man Of Kent,jovially,and jokingly,I think,pretending to be ageist - but the current pandemic is not being too kind to those of mature years.

With a financial depression/recession/tightening of belts/austerity yet to come - the clubs have to appeal,as ever.to a younger,and a more affluent supporter for the future.

Not every sports fan only follows one sports club - and that club a rugby league club.

Not every rugby league follower who gave money to their club many months ago - still has disposable income for other important areas of their life,since that time.

Responsible club owners and administrators will always put supporters interests near the very top of their priorities - not every club supporter is that lucky to have those owners/administrators.

[iffleyox]

27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep fair comment Hela, just as a matter of interest how long have you been a Saints fan?

See, I got round this "glory supporting" problem as a public school southerner who'd only ever played RU by getting into RL at the age of 33 and picking, for no reason, Trinity.

 

Actually, I tell a lie, it wasn't no reason. It was wanting to go to a SuperLeague game to see what the fuss was about, sticking a pin in the fixture list for the weekend I could do, and ending up at Trin v Salford.