Yakstorm Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: By what do you mean commit? Have they agreed to pay money to the organisers? Is there a legally binding contract with liquidated damages? Are they signing players to contracts? Incurring large costs? Seems to me, that there is a good chance that the only thing at stake right now is reputational damage. Which whilst important we have seen little marketing for a sport nobody knows. I would bet that right now if all this falls away no more than a few hundred would know and even fewer would remember in a year Reputational damage, even at a small scale, is not ideal, especially when it could be minimised by the League simply waiting a bit longer to make announcements. Considering Euro XIII is announcing what teams will take part, it would be fair to assume that they have the first 16 spots finalised, meaning they could start determining costs or at least ranges of costs depending on sponsorships, etc. The fact they haven't given clubs any guidance yet is just asking for drop outs, which may prevent Euro XIII from even kicking off if a large group of the first 16 drop out and then other bids get scared off. This maybe something they don't care about, however it doesn't do the concept any good and is likely to extinguish any interest from sponsors or broadcasters (if there is any). PACIFIQUE TREIZE: Join the team by registering as a fan today at pacifique13.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: So its 2022. Do fev know their travel costs for 2023? When Ottawa could be promoted, Toronto relegated and they have two NA trips, Toulouse may get promoted out of the championship, may not. So fev could have 2 NA trips, 1 french trip. They could have none. They could have something in between. Does that make the championship illegitimate? Also isnt this exactly the bottom up expansion you have been calling for? You can't vote for someone to enter the RFL system and then never expect to travel to them. Clubs that do that would be a bit silly. Actually yes it is the kind of expansion I've called for. You have a good point there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: By what do you mean commit? Have they agreed to pay money to the organisers? Is there a legally binding contract with liquidated damages? Are they signing players to contracts? Incurring large costs? Seems to me, that there is a good chance that the only thing at stake right now is reputational damage. Which whilst important we have seen little marketing for a sport nobody knows. I would bet that right now if all this falls away no more than a few hundred would know and even fewer would remember in a year You tell me ? Apparently they are now naming clubs that have agreed to be part of this competition without disclosing the finer details to the clubs that have committed. I dont know your background or you involvement in club football but lets say you commit to a new competition then find out later you cant afford to see the season through then would you not say this damages the reputation of the competition and the game in general ?? OK thats your opinion and it seems you dont really care about any damage (if it fails) to the long term development of the game in Europe. A few hundred ?? More have put many hours and many many euros into taking the game forward on the continent but of course being stuck on the island..maybe even on the M62 this is of little concern to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Smudger06 said: It is known, it's a Cup comp over 4 rounds with 15 Games. Stretching over a 5 week period involving 16 Teams. link please ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, yanto said: link please ?? Go to Euro XIII Twitter account, scroll down, the dates of the rounds have been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 It's a preseason experience for the draft players. Must be hoping for Queensland cup players on free loan, i.e permission granted from Clubs if the draft is held in Brisbane, with maybe some Championship/ League 1 players as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Smudger06 said: Ok it looks like a knockout competition in 2021?? No groups..straight one game ..lose and your gone ??? So on December 1st 2020 they announce the draft,which according to their Twitter and Facebook accounts is aimed at Brisbane as the first city to attract these players ......up to five players for the lower ranked clubs . All the expense and travel to Europe for maybe ONE GAME !!!!! Confused ..really confused ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 The players are not gonna go unless the return air fare (x56 players) and accommodation for between 1 to 5 weeks is all paid for. Probably most would want a daily subsistence allowance on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Smudger06 said: The players are not gonna go unless the return air fare (x56 players) and accommodation for between 1 to 5 weeks is all paid for. Probably most would want a daily subsistence allowance on top. Wish I was an agent ..I reckon I could get 56 players (with commission on top) willing to do a five week holiday tourng Europe ,all expenses paid and one or two run outs on the field thrown in. Even CRL standard would rip it up in Valencia,Budapest or Dublin. Loads of contacts in CRL Group six Southern Highlands and Mcarthur, and South Coast Group seven. Have to get the black book out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojx Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Smudger06 said: Disappointed it's just a knock out cup. It would be better to get 6 teams that could play in a league structure than this. Are they recruiting players in Brisbane to come over for potentially just one game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrogateKnights Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 To be fair depending where they hold the final or if they do a double header semi final in an attractive area for example Portugal/Dublin or Valencia, I maybe tempted with a weekend trip it could be similar to going to watch Toulouse/Catalans away in the atmosphere sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 11 hours ago, yanto said: Ok it looks like a knockout competition in 2021?? No groups..straight one game ..lose and your gone ??? So on December 1st 2020 they announce the draft,which according to their Twitter and Facebook accounts is aimed at Brisbane as the first city to attract these players ......up to five players for the lower ranked clubs . All the expense and travel to Europe for maybe ONE GAME !!!!! Confused ..really confused ... This thread has been quite entertaining. I can see how the competition could work as a knockout but as a semi pro competition in 2022 ? Doubtful without due diligence from both clubs and the organisers that has not been evidenced anywhere I can see at this stage. Smudger is right about the basic costs, They will be enormous. NCL premier champions used to play a challenge game against the semi pro winners of French Elite 2 each year . The cost for that match on a popular low cost air route just short of £20 k to put on. The French, with really decent paying crowds could not sustain their end of the fixture financially. Imagine progress to the final ( 4 matches ) having to travel and book hotels potentially anywhere in Europe at turnaround notice - top prices a certainty. The winning club with 5 draftees can expect to find minimum £120 -£150 k in overheads alone....... Lots of sugar daddies needed as any return on investment if ever will be years away. No current semi-pro or highly performing Community club could afford involvement. The draft players apart ( should they be able to get european holiday visas ) the standard would be fairly basic . No RU players can be relied upon as they will be in the middle of their season. There are plenty of English and Welsh players who could make the grade with ease should Eurox111 develop into a League but like the Anzacs work permits would be few and far between post Brexit. Players will need to be homegrown sooner rather than later and for that to happen as everyone I'm sure will agree viable and thriving national leagues are needed.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 hours ago, scotchy1 said: I have to ask, if you think that, why is it surprising that someone else does? Because I won't be funding it.I won't be paying 56,000 pound MINIMUM for 56 guys to go on holiday. As an agent I will be making money.. quite a bit of money.. from the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 hours ago, yanto said: Because I won't be funding it.I won't be paying 56,000 pound MINIMUM for 56 guys to go on holiday. As an agent I will be making money.. quite a bit of money.. from the project. When Thornhill Trojans played Le Barcares just outside Perpignan they flew out on friday and returned sunday , with the game played saturday evening. Do EuroX111 expect amateurs across the continent to do that every other week? What would happen to their jobs and Family lives ? The realistic alternative ( which they recognise ) to go part time would I anticipate involve minimum wages of circa £15k each player , ( top end League 1 - lower end national RU ) with a lot more for any player who has to re-locate to another country. Say £200-£300k per annum to cover the running costs for each of 16 clubs in a League structure plus central costs . If the organisers have financial and guaranteed backing of for say £ 3 - 5 million for each of the next 5 years then I would say stand aside and let them go for it. Otherwise , isn't that where that rather awkward term ' due diligence ' comes into play ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: It's 4 games in 6 weeks for next year. And not all of them will play the 4 games. I'm honestly not sure why the received wisdom on here is that this is some herculean undertaking compared to things like the Balkan Super League or having irish/Russian/Serbian sides in the challenge cup Russia and Serbia declined to enter the Challenge Cup this year due to demands on their players and finance. Can't speak for the Balkan Super League but didn't the Greek team have to travel by plane to Sofia and then on a ten hour bus trip to Serbia as the cheapest route to play with no subs and ending with just twelve men ? The Longhorns had their usual Challenge Cup tour trip and thoroughly enjoyed themselves. Any Aussie draft player will need 8 weeks subsistence and expenses and accomodation - I agree 3.5 k would cover the air fares but it will need more than that.. And they won't come for just a couple of weeks. And if you think that this competition and especially the League in 2022 does't need major undertakings and structural planning then I'm afraid that 's not my experience and I just have to disagree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 hours ago, scotchy1 said: It's 4 games in 6 weeks for next year. And not all of them will play the 4 games. I'm honestly not sure why the received wisdom on here is that this is some herculean undertaking compared to things like the Balkan Super League or having irish/Russian/Serbian sides in the challenge cup Some people are just negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: It will more than cover the air fare and in 2021 there is only a few weeks to play next year. The league in 2022 is two years away. I agree a cup competition is do-able but the 56 draft players from sunny Queensland will need to have return flights booked for them in advance which will of course be after the final.. They will /should all come and go back at the same time which is at the end of the tourney or otherwise the individual return trip costs would be astronomical. No doubt the clubs concerned could put them to good use in coaching/training capacity if knocked out after Round 1 but my bet is the average 20 year Aussie will simply go walk about in Europe till his flight back is due.........NCL has had plenty of them !!! As ' Oddball ' would say Daddy I don't do negative vibes. But I try to be pragmatic and practical and I'm not sure if the organisers even yet know or understand the level at which they wish to pitch. Any one can put out a one on one game even across a continent at amateur level but the players will end up paying. Logistics are vital. In the northern hemisphere the guys I would turn to to put it together would be Stuart Prior , Mick Turner or Jimmy Aspinall. They have dozens of organised overseas tournaments under their belts. ( they probably won't thank me for this endorsement ). To be sure Valencia and Verona may be much better placed to organise what they want but passing around the smelling salts would be my first move..... ps The flights from Brisbane to Paris return google today at approx £800 for end Jan 2021. to end March. Play with the onward connections after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I am watching the page, every day, waiting for Hela Wigmen's fake team to be announced next! On a serious note, no this not a 'nothing to lose' situation at all. If there are good people out there, that have been toiling away for years, being sold false hope and it ends up burning them. Well that could be the last straw for them and their involvement, and of course, they may up resenting rugby league as a consequence, rather than the individuals responsible. Also, it makes the job of whoever comes along in the future with a similar idea, twice as hard to succeed, no matter how legit and robust their plans may be! Update: I see the have just announced Vrchlabi from Czech Republic as the 4th team. So I guess that puts the 'capital cities' theory to bed. I have to say, this is the first legitimately established club out of the four. They do some great work, have a few years of history behind them as well as an U15s team. And they actually play regular rugby league, unlike a lot of other candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, langpark said: I am watching the page, every day, waiting for Hela Wigmen's fake team to be announced next! On a serious note, no this not a 'nothing to lose' situation at all. If there are good people out there, that have been toiling away for years, being sold false hope and it ends up burning them. Well that could be the last straw for them and their involvement, and of course, they may up resenting rugby league as a consequence, rather than the individuals responsible. Also, it makes the job of whoever comes along in the future with a similar idea, twice as hard to succeed, no matter how legit and robust their plans may be! Update: I see the have just announced Vrchlabi from Czech Republic as the 4th team. So I guess that puts the 'capital cities' theory to bed. I have to say, this is the first legitimately established club out of the four. They do some great work, have a few years of history behind them as well as an U15s team. And they actually play regular rugby league, unlike a lot of other candidates. 21 minutes ago, langpark said: I am watching the page, every day, waiting for Hela Wigmen's fake team to be announced next! On a serious note, no this not a 'nothing to lose' situation at all. If there are good people out there, that have been toiling away for years, being sold false hope and it ends up burning them. Well that could be the last straw for them and their involvement, and of course, they may up resenting rugby league as a consequence, rather than the individuals responsible. Also, it makes the job of whoever comes along in the future with a similar idea, twice as hard to succeed, no matter how legit and robust their plans may be! Update: I see the have just announced Vrchlabi from Czech Republic as the 4th team. So I guess that puts the 'capital cities' theory to bed. I have to say, this is the first legitimately established club out of the four. They do some great work, have a few years of history behind them as well as an U15s team. And they actually play regular rugby league, unlike a lot of other candidates. Stuart Prior has massive contacts within the Czech Republic ( he once told me he had to get out quick years ago because of a little ' local ' difficulty involving a property deal ) and also with Serbia . He has been the ' go to ' organiser of Regional ' Lionhearts ' ( the sanctioned RFL ones ) tours in Eastern Europe for a while. If Euro X111 competition is simply a jolly boys outing then fine but if it pretends to be something more serious then it needs to be ruthlessly planned and the immediate hype needs to be chopped........ as you say if not then the destructive aspect to TTG within Europe could be enormous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 49 minutes ago, del capo said: Stuart Prior has massive contacts within the Czech Republic ( he once told me he had to get out quick years ago because of a little ' local ' difficulty involving a property deal ) and also with Serbia . He has been the ' go to ' organiser of Regional ' Lionhearts ' ( the sanctioned RFL ones ) tours in Eastern Europe for a while. If Euro X111 competition is simply a jolly boys outing then fine but if it pretends to be something more serious then it needs to be ruthlessly planned and the immediate hype needs to be chopped........ as you say if not then the destructive aspect to TTG within Europe could be enormous. Likes his tours does Stuart. Had his pleasure twice in the Netherlands. But of course what's goes on on tour stays on tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Mad Squirrels RL are the fourth team announced. They are from The Czech republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 On 05/06/2020 at 14:03, del capo said: NCL premier champions used to play a challenge game against the semi pro winners of French Elite 2 each year. I never knew this, but I am curious! As I have always wondered how NCL compares to Elite 2. Which team would usually win these matches, do you remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojx Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, The Daddy said: Mad Squirrels RL Great name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 11 hours ago, langpark said: I never knew this, but I am curious! As I have always wondered how NCL compares to Elite 2. Which team would usually win these matches, do you remember? They were always tough affairs but the NCL sides usually came out on top. The French outfits were normally bigger and had plenty of flair but lacked the structure and defensive organisation of the top NCL clubs. The games have not taken place in recent years nor have the NCL Eagles games against the French Federales select. At a rough guess I would say that NCL Premiers and Elite 2 are of similar standing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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