Euro XIIIs

[Tommygilf]

50 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Why are people having to hang around to get frustrated by dealing with RL? That is the very antithesis of development. If the ''powers that be'' are frustrating fledgling developers they should get out of the way. Help them, give them the advice they deserve, support these innovative moves and quick! Or at least leave them alone. How dare they threaten them with sanctions?  

What are they getting in the way of? What exactly is this competition and what does it want to be?

That is the central question at the root of all this and is why there is so much cynicism/doubt/distrust from those on these pages, some NGBs and at the RLEF.

[ATLANTISMAN]

40 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

What are they getting in the way of? What exactly is this competition and what does it want to be?

That is the central question at the root of all this and is why there is so much cynicism/doubt/distrust from those on these pages, some NGBs and at the RLEF.

Rugby League is like a drug and I for one can understand when someone gets carried away with ideas and enthusiasm:)

For now lets just see how it all pans out, but thats a heck of a cost and personally all I can say is I hope that he knows what he is doing and if it is genuine then GOOD LUCK.

Paul

 

[yanto]

4 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Why are people having to hang around to get frustrated by dealing with RL? That is the very antithesis of development. If the ''powers that be'' are frustrating fledgling developers they should get out of the way. Help them, give them the advice they deserve, support these innovative moves and quick! Or at least leave them alone. How dare they threaten them with sanctions?  

The way I see it,though I may be wrong, is that maybe the RLEF wanted evidence that this Euro XIII have the means to provide what they are promising. 

Here is a guy proposing to organise, run and fund a competition, with promised expansion in 2021, on a scale that would change the face of European RL forever. 

After all if the Euro XIII people have sat down with the RLEF and discussed their plans and how it is being financed then surely the RLEF would have snapped their hands off. 

No one would turn away this type of investment from the game.

NO ONE. 

As a governing body  I'm sure you would agree, before they give permission for its members to become involved in such a game changing plan, they have to make sure that it is a legitimate proposal. 

Maybe Euro XIII couldn't or wouldn't provide evidence that the finance, TV deal and government funding that is being proposed was in place ( or would be in place) to allow the competition to proceed. 

If this was the case then off course the RLEF are not going to sanction it on promises alone. 

Now if Euro XIII did prove the funding is in place and after background checks everything was above board and RLEF still turned this guy away for political or personal reasons then every member of the RLEF board should resign in the morning. 

What reasons would they have NOT to bring Dean Buchan into the fold and encourage him if his proposals passed scrutiny?? 

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Wikipedia has a map of the spread of locations. Looks very impressive. As a rugby League fab, I'll obviously be very sceptical, but man I hope it comes off!

 

Would be good to see an French club like Nantes in there. I'm throwing my support being Rotterdam!

[naldo88]

23 hours ago, langpark said:

I wouldn't say thick, but many do not have english as their first language, so they are disadvantaged right from the get go in some ways. Some are also a bit naive, not thick. 

Lol , this looks a little bit offensive mate . 

[thebrewxi]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Wikipedia has a map of the spread of locations. Looks very impressive. As a rugby League fab, I'll obviously be very sceptical, but man I hope it comes off!

 

Would be good to see an French club like Nantes in there. I'm throwing my support being Rotterdam!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_XIII

[yanto]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'm throwing my support being Rotterdam!

Just a ferry ride away. Easier to get to than Wigan on a Friday night for Hull fans

[Henson Park Old Firm]

I've been told that the Mad Squirrel club  has nominated George  Burges as their patron Saint, due to his squirrel grips.

[del capo]

7 hours ago, yanto said:

The way I see it,though I may be wrong, is that maybe the RLEF wanted evidence that this Euro XIII have the means to provide what they are promising. 

Here is a guy proposing to organise, run and fund a competition, with promised expansion in 2021, on a scale that would change the face of European RL forever. 

After all if the Euro XIII people have sat down with the RLEF and discussed their plans and how it is being financed then surely the RLEF would have snapped their hands off. 

No one would turn away this type of investment from the game.

NO ONE. 

As a governing body  I'm sure you would agree, before they give permission for its members to become involved in such a game changing plan, they have to make sure that it is a legitimate proposal. 

Maybe Euro XIII couldn't or wouldn't provide evidence that the finance, TV deal and government funding that is being proposed was in place ( or would be in place) to allow the competition to proceed. 

If this was the case then off course the RLEF are not going to sanction it on promises alone. 

Now if Euro XIII did prove the funding is in place and after background checks everything was above board and RLEF still turned this guy away for political or personal reasons then every member of the RLEF board should resign in the morning. 

What reasons would they have NOT to bring Dean Buchan into the fold and encourage him if his proposals passed scrutiny?? 

 

Totally agree.

Has Dean Buchan  pitched / been given the opportunity to pitch his plans  to RLEF or has he just gone off on his own ?. If the former then no doubt it has been forensically examined and I will await judgement on it from the guys  who have been in charge of Euro rugby for a few decades and presumably know their turf. If the latter would it not be yet another example of the disruption in the game that has caused havoc and in reality  ultimately kept our game back from spreading ?

Sound progressive governance , yes governance,  can be the only way forward...…...Stripping personalities and idealogues out of the equation  is an initial first.....

[Tommygilf]

7 hours ago, yanto said:

The way I see it,though I may be wrong, is that maybe the RLEF wanted evidence that this Euro XIII have the means to provide what they are promising. 

Here is a guy proposing to organise, run and fund a competition, with promised expansion in 2021, on a scale that would change the face of European RL forever. 

After all if the Euro XIII people have sat down with the RLEF and discussed their plans and how it is being financed then surely the RLEF would have snapped their hands off. 

No one would turn away this type of investment from the game.

NO ONE. 

As a governing body  I'm sure you would agree, before they give permission for its members to become involved in such a game changing plan, they have to make sure that it is a legitimate proposal. 

Maybe Euro XIII couldn't or wouldn't provide evidence that the finance, TV deal and government funding that is being proposed was in place ( or would be in place) to allow the competition to proceed. 

If this was the case then off course the RLEF are not going to sanction it on promises alone. 

Now if Euro XIII did prove the funding is in place and after background checks everything was above board and RLEF still turned this guy away for political or personal reasons then every member of the RLEF board should resign in the morning. 

What reasons would they have NOT to bring Dean Buchan into the fold and encourage him if his proposals passed scrutiny?? 

 

Precisely. It could all go #### up like Rich Energy at Haas F1 did without proper scrutiny

[fcl]

I find it hard to understand how such a competition could work.
Without speaking of money, clubs like the French clubs have worked hard for years to maintain a competition of a more than adequate level with the support of institutions, rugby schools etc. (Besides, the Spanish team only exists through the presence of French players)
How one could create a championship ex nihilo without any base.
last element, the current crisis shows that the time is more for industrial relocation (and sports too) than to continue in this endless globalization.

[yanto]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You say no-one would turn down this kind of investment. I'd point you to the massive resistance to Toronto

Maybe the resistance came from clubs and chairman for personal reasons? 

I think I have addressed that. 

 

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It could go #### up with proper scrutiny as well.

What sort of point is that?

Are you seriously arguing that scrutiny of aims, strategy and finance would not decrease the chance of things falling apart? 

[del capo]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Let's be honest here, the RLEF is a pretty small organisation, how many tv deals do you think they have experience of negotiating? 

If you gave them a Europe wide TV contract would they have the knowledge and expertise to understand it?

You cant make a cake without cracking some eggs. In any attempt there are going to be successes and failures. Especially when it comes to expanding the game. 

Whether it's the first attempt or 1000th attempt that brings success, the fact is you have to try, there is risk, always will be risk, there will be costs, always will be costs. But there are risks to not doing it and there are opportunity costs to each decision made. 

So it's yet another breakaway ? When will we ever learn ? 

[yanto]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Let's be honest here, the RLEF is a pretty small organisation, how many tv deals do you think they have experience of negotiating? 

If you gave them a Europe wide TV contract would they have the knowledge and expertise to understand it?

You cant make a cake without cracking some eggs. In any attempt there are going to be successes and failures. Especially when it comes to expanding the game. 

Whether it's the first attempt or 1000th attempt that brings success, the fact is you have to try, there is risk, always will be risk, there will be costs, always will be costs. But there are risks to not doing it and there are opportunity costs to each decision made. 

OK so why DO YOU THINK  the RLEF are not as yet supporting this. 

We are talking about an organisation, that works on a shoestring budget, yet to accept an offer that will change game in Europe forever. 

Makes no sense to me unless they have yet to see assurances the funding Euro XIII are proposing is in place. 

 

 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

There is an element of the game in this country that wants it at the level it is at. There is a strong element in the game that consists of solely protecting each own feifdom. I've no doubt that is the case everywhere (in pretty much every organisation never mind sport)

I've also no doubt that there are plenty of people working hard and making small incremental steps for the game. And we should be forever thankful to them for doing so. And I'm sure many of them looked at this and thought "not a chance". They may be right or wrong about that, but even if they are right, Even if this isnt right for them, and even if this thing comes crashing down. 

It doesnt mean it was wrong to try.

Try what? This is the point you and nobody else who decries anyone skeptical about this competition as luddites can answer.

What is this comp?

Is it for the purpose of elite competition? Is it for spreading the professional game? Is it for spreading amateur game? Is it to bring together the best European club sides? Is it a breakaway comp? Is it to get a TV deal? Is it to be the pinnacle of the european national leagues? Is it just for clubs who fancy it? What are the criteria for clubs entering? Who are the "clubs" entering and what is their function in doing so? Drafts are supposed to improve teams, yet they're being held in Atlanta, Georgia? 

These are just some of the points of confusion surrounding this comp - some are also conflicting.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Firstly I'd question whether such expertise exists in the RLEF to so proper due diligence.

Secondly I'd argue that expansion has proven such a difficult concept that such due diligence, is likely to prove of limited use. The fact is that we have a relatively successful club in Toronto, which by any proper measure is an incredibly risky option, but Sheffield, who should be a sure thing, struggle.

If Toronto stay up this year, in 5 years they will have achieved as much as a heartland club like Leigh have in 25. 

Growth is always going to be more art than science. If the RLEF knew the formula they would be doing it themselves. 

All of what you said is fine but its almost totally irrelevant buzz words. May as well have just said speculate to accumulate and saved yourself some typing.

What is this growing? What is it growing from? Why are areas with strong progress not involved? Why have the RLEF and several national federations been blindsided by this? 

[langpark]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Firstly I'd question whether such expertise exists in the RLEF to so proper due diligence.

Right. Yet you have such blind faith in yanto's mysterious white knight, who has had no involvement in sports until now.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

The necessary information is out there. A cup comp this year. A league next. 

The rest isnt particularly important to people not involved in running it. 

A lot of this is just looking for problems. For example the draft being held in Atlanta doesnt mean only players from Atlanta will be picked. 

Thats a total cop out because you well know the answers are problematic.

A cup this year and a league next still tells us nothing about what this comp is, just its format. And even that isn't consistent. Why should a cup change to a league after a year? What evidence is there that 1 is better than the other?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Then you have completely misunderstood what was said. Which is surprising because it's pretty basic. 

It has literally nothing to do with 'speculate to accumulate'

Ahhh ok. So you didn't say "growth in RL is more art than science"?

I'm questioning whether this is the work of an artist or a 4 year old messing up paint by numbers?

[del capo]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There is no necessity to being a breakaway. 

Then be open , honest and communicate. Show the plan , the progression , the funding , the TV and sponsorship details 

The Vision.

If the powers that be reject all of that for the wrong reasons then sack them.

Otherwise it's yet another breakaway by privateers.

I've no idea who helps run RLEF. You say they are ###### and yes they are certainly underfunded. Is Phil Caplin still there? If he is then  I'll back his judgement any day.....

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, del capo said:

Then be open , honest and communicate. Show the plan , the progression , the funding , the TV and sponsorship details 

The Vision.

If the powers that be reject all of that for the wrong reasons then sack them.

Otherwise it's yet another breakaway by privateers.

I've no idea who helps run RLEF. You say they are ###### and yes they are certainly underfunded. Is Phil Caplin still there? If he is then  I'll back his judgement any day.....

Nobody knows the vision! Its back of a fag packet at best, aimless waste of money at worse.

[langpark]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

We dont even have this level of detail for SL.

SL has clear criteria for clubs. This euro 13 doesn't. In many cases, a facebook page and logo created just hours before announcing the team has been enough. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

It tells us exactly what the comp is. 

Why are you expecting a private business to come out, explain its business plan, reasoning, short and long term planning etc?

I deal with contracts many times bigger than the entirety of northern hemisphere RL. Super League and all. If I asked partner companies the level of detail expected in this thread to be made public they would look at me like I was crazy.

We dont even have this level of detail for SL.

I'm expecting a sports competition trying presumably to get me and others to buy into it to say what the point of the competition is.

Especially so when its subverting the regional and national governing bodies to do so and so far has a number of clubs that have been pulled out of the air (Anadolu, Dublin, Budapest) without having played a game. 

1 team from each nation surely needs explanation?

I'm sure you love your job.

[yanto]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Largely I see no benefit to them being involved. 

Why risk their reputation either way? Back it and it fails you gain nothing but risk look silly.

Fight it and it succeeds and again you look silly.

Fight it and it fails you look weak for not stopping it.

Fight, stop it, succeed and you dont gain anything and it might have worked.

I'm not sure why the RLEF need to be involved in anyway bar, maybe, accrediting refs etc. 

I'm not sure they are fighting it.

As the  governing body of the game on the continent surely they have the duty to scrutinise any proposals that will have a direct affect on their membership.