Euro XIIIs

[fighting irish]

14 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

What are they getting in the way of? What exactly is this competition and what does it want to be?

That is the central question at the root of all this and is why there is so much cynicism/doubt/distrust from those on these pages, some NGBs and at the RLEF.

yes I understand that, and it is the business (or ought to be) of the RLEF to find out and as quickly as possible, Its clear that these clubs and the organisers want to do this, so if its at all possible, if the plan is credible, get on and help them or step aside.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Declare Pimlico a republic

You're showing your age now! Not sure how many other people get that reference

[fighting irish]

11 hours ago, yanto said:

The way I see it,though I may be wrong, is that maybe the RLEF wanted evidence that this Euro XIII have the means to provide what they are promising. 

Here is a guy proposing to organise, run and fund a competition, with promised expansion in 2021, on a scale that would change the face of European RL forever. 

After all if the Euro XIII people have sat down with the RLEF and discussed their plans and how it is being financed then surely the RLEF would have snapped their hands off. 

No one would turn away this type of investment from the game.

NO ONE. 

As a governing body  I'm sure you would agree, before they give permission for its members to become involved in such a game changing plan, they have to make sure that it is a legitimate proposal. 

Maybe Euro XIII couldn't or wouldn't provide evidence that the finance, TV deal and government funding that is being proposed was in place ( or would be in place) to allow the competition to proceed. 

If this was the case then off course the RLEF are not going to sanction it on promises alone. 

Now if Euro XIII did prove the funding is in place and after background checks everything was above board and RLEF still turned this guy away for political or personal reasons then every member of the RLEF board should resign in the morning. 

What reasons would they have NOT to bring Dean Buchan into the fold and encourage him if his proposals passed scrutiny?? 

 

I agree with everything you say, the only thing I would take issue with is the notion of asking permission.

I liked the response the Welsh RL made when asked about permission. They said that Rhondda Outlaws were free agents and I agree that they are.

My own club, wouldn't dream of asking permission of anyone if we wanted to organise a tour (including games) anywhere in the world.

We would have to ensure we could get insurance cover and pay the bills but that's our business.

The so called ''governing body'' is an administrative body whose reach (and authority) is limited (or should be) to the competitions it administers and they should stay out of everything else. 

I just want them to get behind this thing (if its credible) and help them do to do it!

By the way, as a general rule, and life guide ( I know its a cliché but nevertheless very true) in my experience, its a lot easier (when you're right) to beg forgiveness than ask permission.  

[langpark]

25 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

My own club, wouldn't dream of asking permission of anyone if we wanted to organise a tour (including games) anywhere in the world.

I admire your rebel spirit and understand the need for Rhondda 'Outlaws' to live up to its name. I used to share that view once, but when found myself in this position and question the 'powers that be' why permission from them was even needed, their answer was simple. 1) we need to ensure that your participation in matches abroad will not effect your ability to fulfill your match obligations on the home front. 2) you are in some ways flying the flag of the nation, so they need to check legitimacy etc. to ensure there is nothing untoward going on. 

I think both points are quite reasonable and valid.

I have never seen anything so "top secret" with minimal details on offer as this euro 13s thing. To use an extreme example (for those questioning what right we have to ask for details) this league could be funded by ISIS for all we know. (I said extreme example, to get the point across, but use it to paint me as a nutter if you will).

[yanto]

I posted this on June 4th.

Dean Buchans words regarding the RLEF proposed competition. 

"The European Super League will not work at the moment and you’d probably be aware of the reasons why. In lots of European countries, rugby league doesn’t feature on the map. Look at the attendance, look at the participation.

“If you suddenly jump up with 10, 20 clubs, you’re not suddenly going to be able to support a massive competition with huge infrastructure and costs that the working group is talking about.”

“Do they actually have signed contracts, do they have investment in place, do they have a broadcast deal? And if they do, why does no-one in Europe know anything about it?”

 

Read the bottom line. 

Buchan is asking why no one in Europe knows anything about it. 

Is that not what a lot of people are asking on here regarding Euro XIII? 

If he was so concerned that no one knew anything about the RLEF's contracts, investment, broadcast deals he sure ain't being any more open himself. 

In fact the whole statement is a carbon copy of what EURO XIII are doing!!!! 

He is giving comments about why the RLEF competition will fail then goes on to replicate what he said won't work . 

Very confusing 

[langpark]

Check-mate right there (unless your name is Eddie or Scotchy). 

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, langpark said:

Check-mate right there (unless your name is Eddie or Scotchy). 

No need to get personal about it pal. 

[langpark]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

No need to get personal about it pal. 

Banter mate, I thought you wouldn't mind a bit of that.

 

[yanto]

5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Do they? Is it even possible for them to do so?

Do they have any expertise in contract law, financing etc?

So you don't know the background of the current RLEF chairman. 

Laal tip. 

I reckon he has more than enough expertise looking at some of the positions he has held. 

• Director of the British Association for Sport and Law (Former President & Chairman)
• Member of the FA Premier League Legal Advisory Group
• FA Premier League representative on the Association of European Union Premier Professional Leagues (EPFL)
• Member of Working Group for Financial Matters of the FIFA Task Force "For the Good of the Game"
• He has also represented clubs and players before FIFA, UEFA, the Football Association, the Premier League and the Football League disciplinary bodies. Also he has represented players and clubs at the Court of Arbitration for Sport and international and league compensation tribunals.
• He has worked with the South Africa and Nigerian Premier leagues in respect of broadcasting and regulatory matters as well as the Egyptian Sports Council and UAE footballing authorities. 

Quite impressive do you not think

[burnleywelsh]

Yeh but what does he know about Rugby League

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, langpark said:

I admire your rebel spirit and understand the need for Rhondda 'Outlaws' to live up to its name. I used to share that view once, but when found myself in this position and question the 'powers that be' why permission from them was even needed, their answer was simple. 1) we need to ensure that your participation in matches abroad will not effect your ability to fulfill your match obligations on the home front. 2) you are in some ways flying the flag of the nation, so they need to check legitimacy etc. to ensure there is nothing untoward going on. 

I think both points are quite reasonable and valid.

I have never seen anything so "top secret" with minimal details on offer as this euro 13s thing. To use an extreme example (for those questioning what right we have to ask for details) this league could be funded by ISIS for all we know. (I said extreme example, to get the point across, but use it to paint me as a nutter if you will).

Its not rebellious LP I'm just asserting my individual rights.

I remember a local RaRa official telling me, I wasn't allowed to play Rugby League, ha ha what a fool.

There are legions of the obedient though, that's a fact.

With regard to the reasons you were given by the ''powers that be'' - If you had asked to be excused from your obligations to the league then I can understand their interest, but a responsible club wouldn''t renege on their commitments.

The idea that you represent your country on a tour isn't a very convincing argument for giving away your sovereignty to these ''would-be'' tyrants.

I'm very RL orientated and in  the main, very conciliatory and cooperative, but don't tell me what I can and can't do. My life belongs to me.

If that's the game RLEF are playing, they will spawn break-away movements like the World Rugby League, all over the place, that's for sure.

On a personal level, If you look around for someone to give you permission to do the things you want, you ain't Avant Garde. 

[fighting irish]

19 minutes ago, yanto said:

So you don't know the background of the current RLEF chairman. 

Laal tip. 

I reckon he has more than enough expertise looking at some of the positions he has held. 

• Director of the British Association for Sport and Law (Former President & Chairman)
• Member of the FA Premier League Legal Advisory Group
• FA Premier League representative on the Association of European Union Premier Professional Leagues (EPFL)
• Member of Working Group for Financial Matters of the FIFA Task Force "For the Good of the Game"
• He has also represented clubs and players before FIFA, UEFA, the Football Association, the Premier League and the Football League disciplinary bodies. Also he has represented players and clubs at the Court of Arbitration for Sport and international and league compensation tribunals.
• He has worked with the South Africa and Nigerian Premier leagues in respect of broadcasting and regulatory matters as well as the Egyptian Sports Council and UAE footballing authorities. 

Quite impressive do you not think

Yes very impressive.

I just hope he uses it all to help these people achieve their goals.

We've had many well qualified administrators in the past, taking the money and doing nothing much. 

[langpark]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Yes very impressive.

I just hope he uses it all to help these people achieve their goals.

We've had many well qualified administrators in the past, taking the money and doing nothing much. 

But they do not seem to want RLEF collaboration.

Also you make RLEF sound like this ruthless authoritarian, whereas if you refer to their official statements, they say they are keen to work with anyone looking to develop RL in Europe and also said they have no intention of imposing sanctions on anyone and encouraged members to talk to both parties and continue to seek information. 

This whole "let's stick it to the man" attitude needs to stop as their is no basis by which to think they are behaving like dictators. 

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, langpark said:

But they do not seem to want RLEF collaboration.

Also you make RLEF sound like this ruthless authoritarian, whereas if you refer to their official statements, they say they are keen to work with anyone looking to develop RL in Europe and also said they have no intention of imposing sanctions on anyone and encouraged members to talk to both parties and continue to seek information. 

This whole "let's stick it to the man" attitude needs to stop as their is no basis by which to think they are behaving like dictators. 

What development have they done in Europe though? Say in the last 5 years? That’s not a loaded question, I genuinely don’t know. 
 

I might be wrong but I get the impression that any development (such as in Serbia) has been led by individuals rather than the RLEF. 

[fighting irish]

1 minute ago, langpark said:

But they do not seem to want RLEF collaboration.

Also you make RLEF sound like this ruthless authoritarian, whereas if you refer to their official statements, they say they are keen to work with anyone looking to develop RL in Europe and also said they have no intention of imposing sanctions on anyone and encouraged members to talk to both parties and continue to seek information. 

This whole "let's stick it to the man" attitude needs to stop as their is no basis by which to think they are behaving like dictators. 

Hey, i'm sure we are on the same page here.

I don't know anything about them, but I do hope they are providing encouragement (at least).

As a sport we are short of innovators and I'm just saying we should salute the Euro XIII group.

I think the RLEF should be able to find a way to work with them for the benefit of all concerned.

I'm not saying they are dictators, I was just explaining my own attitude towards seeking permission.

Hopefully the RLEF and IRL will preside over unprecedented growth in the next few years.

No one would be happier than me.

[fighting irish]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What development have they done in Europe though? Say in the last 5 years? That’s not a loaded question, I genuinely don’t know. 
 

I might be wrong but I get the impression that any development (such as in Serbia) has been led by individuals rather than the RLEF. 

Most of the creation of new clubs, in new countries since day one, has been achieved by energetic, zealous individuals, with hardly any help. Its a miracle what some of them have achieved. All I'm saying is we should salute them and hope there's lots more to come. As an aside, I hope the RLEF are not creating obstacles for them but rather providing encouragement, advice and assistance. 

[Tommygilf]

51 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What development have they done in Europe though? Say in the last 5 years? That’s not a loaded question, I genuinely don’t know. 
 

I might be wrong but I get the impression that any development (such as in Serbia) has been led by individuals rather than the RLEF. 

New nations league style tournament to start this autumn, pre EuroXIII there was talk of a new club competition, I imagine they'll have got grants from the EU for funding the game.

[Eddie]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

New nations league style tournament to start this autumn, pre EuroXIII there was talk of a new club competition, I imagine they'll have got grants from the EU for funding the game.

You imagine, or do you know? Yeah the nations league tournament was progress but what about the club game - talk of usually amounts to nothing. I can’t think of anything that they’ve done for the game in the UK, do you know what they’ve done for club rugby anywhere else?

[JonM]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

What development have they done in Europe though? Say in the last 5 years? That’s not a loaded question, I genuinely don’t know. 
I might be wrong but I get the impression that any development (such as in Serbia) has been led by individuals rather than the RLEF. 

Seems to me they do a whole stack of stuff. Where do people think the EU funding and courses for referees and coaches for all these new countries playing RL in Europe come from? Not just providing referees and coaches, but setting up systems so that member countries can run their own training. Even this week, there's been referee training happening for Turkey RL.

The RLEF has something like 40 member countries now, including plenty in Africa and North America. Even just vetting administrators so that we don't get situations like in Greece or Italy where people disappear with the money must take some work.

[yanto]

21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You imagine, or do you know? Yeah the nations league tournament was progress but what about the club game - talk of usually amounts to nothing. I can’t think of anything that they’ve done for the game in the UK, do you know what they’ve done for club rugby anywhere else?

Activities Dutch clubs have participated in and  been  replicated all over Europe and this is just the tip of the iceberg Eddie.

Yep they are doing nothing but bringing in higher levels of governence,higher levels of coaching, higher level officials.

All LONG term to ensure the sustainability and growth of the game.

Not everything regarding development takes place on the park or involves game time.

1) Following successful level 2 coaching and match officials courses in Barcares, near Perpignan - involving cluster group Netherlands, Belgium and Ireland RL – as part of the part-EU funded Training and Education project, there has been agreement to recognise and adopt joint technical qualifications between the RLEF and French Federation for the first time.

2) In the build-up to the RLEF Congress in Serbia - one of the project’s cluster leaders - the week-long professional development programme included coaches; Mike Aughey (Ireland), Aitor Davilas (Spain), Bob Doughton (Germany), Tiziano Franchini (Italy), David Lahr (Czech Republic), Slobodan Manak (Serbia) and Thijs van der Zouwen (Netherlands).

3)The Nederlandse Rugby League Bond has hosted a coach education exercise as part of the EU-backed Training and Education Portal project, which saw 18 participants from their own and neighbouring Belgium’s community clubs take part.
RLEF Coaching Manager Martin Crick oversaw the busy five-day event with the Federazione Italiana Rugby League’s principal educator Tiziano Franchini, a member of the RLEF coach development squad, leading on the delivery of the level 1 sessions.The TEP has received €466.000 from the EU’s Erasmus+ project. It is intended to build the capacity of the RLEF’s 21 European members through high quality training and mentoring.

4)The Nederlandse Rugby League Bond has hosted a match official education activity in Rotterdam as part of the EU-backed Training and Education Portal project.

5)As a result of the recently completed, 18-month, Leadership Devolution Project, 31 technical educators have been qualified and 224 new Level 1 coaches and match officials are now supporting the continuing growth of rugby league in Europe. The scheme, part-funded by the European Commission who granted €195.000 - the remainder coming from the Rugby League International Federation - included 17 partner countries.Five Full Members - England (RFL), France (FFRXIII), Ireland (RLI), Scotland (SRL) and Wales (WRL) – assumed roles as ‘senior leaders’ of five regional clusters. They oversaw the work of and mentored five RLEF ‘leader’ graduates from the complementary Governance Foundation Project (2012-13) - Netherlands (NRLB), Germany (RLD), Latvia (LRL), Czech Republic (CZRLA) and Italy (FIRL) – who in turn acted as mentors to a tranche of ‘learner’ nations - Poland (PRXIII), Belgium (BRLA), Malta (MRL), Denmark (DRLF), Hungary (HRLF), Sweden (SWRL) and Greece (HFRL).

“The project saw 33 activities run in Europe,” said RLEF General Manager Danny Kazandjian.

Held at Sparta Rugby Club in Capelle aan den Ijssel, on the outskirts of Rotterdam, 11 participants from France, Greece, Belgium and Holland took part in the four-day activity, led by the French Federation’s head of match officials, Thierry Alibert, culminating in a Level 1 MO course delivered by the hosts.

Alibert provided overall assessment, while RLEF Match Official Development Squad member George Stilianos from Greece led on training, including new Belgian Rugby League Association match official educator candidates Marco Morasci and Christophe Weyenberghe.

But if your not involved why should all this good work be disclosed.What interest is it to the fan.:-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yanto]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

What development have they done in Europe though? Say in the last 5 years? That’s not a loaded question, I genuinely don’t know. 
 

I might be wrong but I get the impression that any development (such as in Serbia) has been led by individuals rather than the RLEF. 

Eddie check it out .

Jovan Vujosevic is the RLEF Central and Eastern European Regional director.

Jovan has came through from playing club football for Drocol to representing Serbia at national level and is now on the board of the RLEF.

Yes the initial contacts are led by individuals but ask Turkey  who they went to for guidence and advice ..Correct Jovan .

See my other posts regarding other develoment mate.

[fighting irish]

5 minutes ago, yanto said:

Activities Dutch clubs have participated in and  been  replicated all over Europe and this is just the tip of the iceberg Eddie.

Yep they are doing nothing but bringing in higher levels of governence,higher levels of coaching, higher level officials.

All LONG term to ensure the sustainability and growth of the game.

Not everything regarding development takes place on the park or involves game time.

1) Following successful level 2 coaching and match officials courses in Barcares, near Perpignan - involving cluster group Netherlands, Belgium and Ireland RL – as part of the part-EU funded Training and Education project, there has been agreement to recognise and adopt joint technical qualifications between the RLEF and French Federation for the first time.

2) In the build-up to the RLEF Congress in Serbia - one of the project’s cluster leaders - the week-long professional development programme included coaches; Mike Aughey (Ireland), Aitor Davilas (Spain), Bob Doughton (Germany), Tiziano Franchini (Italy), David Lahr (Czech Republic), Slobodan Manak (Serbia) and Thijs van der Zouwen (Netherlands).

3)The Nederlandse Rugby League Bond has hosted a coach education exercise as part of the EU-backed Training and Education Portal project, which saw 18 participants from their own and neighbouring Belgium’s community clubs take part.
RLEF Coaching Manager Martin Crick oversaw the busy five-day event with the Federazione Italiana Rugby League’s principal educator Tiziano Franchini, a member of the RLEF coach development squad, leading on the delivery of the level 1 sessions.The TEP has received €466.000 from the EU’s Erasmus+ project. It is intended to build the capacity of the RLEF’s 21 European members through high quality training and mentoring.

4)The Nederlandse Rugby League Bond has hosted a match official education activity in Rotterdam as part of the EU-backed Training and Education Portal project.

5)As a result of the recently completed, 18-month, Leadership Devolution Project, 31 technical educators have been qualified and 224 new Level 1 coaches and match officials are now supporting the continuing growth of rugby league in Europe. The scheme, part-funded by the European Commission who granted €195.000 - the remainder coming from the Rugby League International Federation - included 17 partner countries.Five Full Members - England (RFL), France (FFRXIII), Ireland (RLI), Scotland (SRL) and Wales (WRL) – assumed roles as ‘senior leaders’ of five regional clusters. They oversaw the work of and mentored five RLEF ‘leader’ graduates from the complementary Governance Foundation Project (2012-13) - Netherlands (NRLB), Germany (RLD), Latvia (LRL), Czech Republic (CZRLA) and Italy (FIRL) – who in turn acted as mentors to a tranche of ‘learner’ nations - Poland (PRXIII), Belgium (BRLA), Malta (MRL), Denmark (DRLF), Hungary (HRLF), Sweden (SWRL) and Greece (HFRL).

“The project saw 33 activities run in Europe,” said RLEF General Manager Danny Kazandjian.

Held at Sparta Rugby Club in Capelle aan den Ijssel, on the outskirts of Rotterdam, 11 participants from France, Greece, Belgium and Holland took part in the four-day activity, led by the French Federation’s head of match officials, Thierry Alibert, culminating in a Level 1 MO course delivered by the hosts.

Alibert provided overall assessment, while RLEF Match Official Development Squad member George Stilianos from Greece led on training, including new Belgian Rugby League Association match official educator candidates Marco Morasci and Christophe Weyenberghe.

But if your not involved why should all this good work be disclosed.What interest is it to the fan.:-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please keep us (me) informed of any more work of this nature. It is a heartwarming story and there are lots of reasons to be proud of what they are achieving. I think many ordinary fans would be glad to hear of this kind of work being done. It makes me feel a lot more optimistic about the future of our game. 

[yanto]

6 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Please keep us (me) informed of any more work of this nature. It is a heartwarming story and there are lots of reasons to be proud of what they are achieving. I think many ordinary fans would be glad to hear of this kind of work being done. It makes me feel a lot more optimistic about the future of our game. 

All available to read on the Official RLEF website.

In fact if you click on each nation in the drop down box you can go into the archives nearly back to day one .

https://www.rlef.eu.com/

Some podcasts now also tracing back to how some nations set of . Kevin Rudd,Simon Cooper Germany and  Milan Mytrnek Czech  have been on the podcasts so far.

Tyrone McCarthy is this weeks guest 

https://www.rlef.eu.com/articles/1828/talking-european-rugby-league-podcats-episode-four

Will let you know when Im gobbing off on one

[ATLANTISMAN]

There is NO DOUBT at all that there is some fab development work going on in Europe and elsewhere at present, hats off to all thats what I say.

I think that any RL initiative should be supported however it has to be transparent and the financials put in place, if thats the case then full steam ahead.

Expand or die:)

 

Paul

[langpark]

Well said Yanto and might I add there are currently just TWO full-time RLEF employees and Europe and zero part-time as far as I am aware. Not a bad job they are doing.

And as Yanto says, a lot of it is long-term development work, so it is always impossible to satisfy the 'quick-fix', 'instant-results', fantasist pitchfork mobs on here. That is the exact type of person euro 13 seems to appeal to. Plenty of dots on a map, no substance and seeming no consideration given to reaping long-term results.