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35 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I'm failing miserably here, with you Tom. First of all let me say that my comments were not directed to you.

Furthermore, the malevolence I speak of is not towards the game, although I've experienced a lot of that, in my life.

The malevolence I refer to is directed at Mr Buchan, Mr Perez, Mr Argyle et al, for daring to do something novel, something unexpected (for the good of the game as it happens) and backing their ideas with their own resources.

If they'd come cap in hand, and begged for permission they'd have received a better welcome, I'm confident of that.

The root of this malevolence, is envy, which sadly is the most common emotion on the planet. That's why I'm not surprised by it.

It goes almost undetected amongst the envious but its ugly, hateful and wrong.

Why is it wrong? because it vilifies people, not for their vices but for their virtues. They are despised not for their shortcomings but for their qualities,  in short, because they are good. And I abhor it wherever I see it. What kind of society are we creating when its permissible to punish the virtuous?

Regarding your last point. Asking questions is fine, but I think its reasonable to expect people to defer judgement until the information becomes available rather than jump to wholly unsubstantiated (negative) conclusions about the man, his brainchild and his efforts beforehand.

The majority of the pre-judgements can be classed as negative, many employing ridicule and its simply unjust, so I'm standing up for them, until the evidence is in.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, because I admire them and their ilk. I hope there's lots more to come. 

You are still at it Irish

 Malevolence and envy friend ?   The worst evil on the planet is greed. It devours everything , including RL competitions.......

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12 minutes ago, del capo said:

Sorry for the late reply  Irish but for some reason  I got hacked and John Drake has only just been able to get me back on.

Very strange for a forum like this ?

My comment is now perhaps superfluous as  many seem already to have  shot your diatribe  of 14 hours ago down

Shot down in flames. 

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8 minutes ago, Impartial Observer said:

Eric Perez seems to be just a frontman for people with money, I think you will find that if he does have any money he hasn't used it with Toronto where he was relieved of his duties and Ottawa. Argyle appears to have money not sure about Buchan.

You are not sure about a very great deal my friend. Which is my whole point. Tell me, do you feel any inhibitions about forming strong opinions when you have no information to go on? 

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8 minutes ago, del capo said:

You are still at it Irish

 Malevolence and envy friend ?   The worst evil on the planet is greed. It devours everything , including RL competitions.......

Come on Del', of course I'm still at it.

What do you expect?

Oh by the way, are you confessing some insensitivity to the envy in the world? Lol. 

Look, once more. Most on here think he's up to no good, a con man, a disaster waiting to happen. I'm just standing on the other side of the argument. It's analogous to the presumption of innocence in a criminal court. I'm not convinced he's brilliant but I'm willing to wait and see. To defer my judgement till I have something to judge.

That Del', is the ''reasonable man'' position, much lauded in British Courts of Law.

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12 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

You are not sure about a very great deal my friend. Which is my whole point. Tell me, do you feel any inhibitions about forming strong opinions when you have no information to go on? 

What are you a shrink?

But I do have information my friend, you stated that Eric Perez has used his resources to back his ideas. Can you show me the proof of that?

 

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I'm not a shrink IO I'm a rugby league fan and I believe in fair play. 

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26 minutes ago, Copa said:

This whole thing seems increasingly unprofessional from all parties...

Do you mean the Euro XIII comp, or the futile arguments in here? Lol.

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15 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I'm not a shrink IO I'm a rugby league fan and I believe in fair play. 

Eric Perez?

You don't believe in fair play, you want people with ideas to ride roughshod over conventions and rules. Is that a strong enough opinion for you?  

 

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30 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Come on Del', of course I'm still at it.

What do you expect?

Oh by the way, are you confessing some insensitivity to the envy in the world? Lol. 

Look, once more. Most on here think he's up to no good, a con man, a disaster waiting to happen. I'm just standing on the other side of the argument. It's analogous to the presumption of innocence in a criminal court. I'm not convinced he's brilliant but I'm willing to wait and see. To defer my judgement till I have something to judge.

That Del', is the ''reasonable man'' position, much lauded in British Courts of Law.

I'm a recently retired criminal lawyer Irish . Envy not in my game anymore .No need  either to lecture me on the English Justice system

Some of my better clients retired to Turkish invaded North Cyprus, Morocco and even southern Spain

Dealt with all sorts in my time and always started with being ' reasonable '

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29 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I'm not a shrink IO I'm a rugby league fan and I believe in fair play. 

Yes 16 clubs and to be honest all the posters on here who despite asking questions hopes it succeeds..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the good of the game. 

Edited by yanto

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47 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

is anyone actually seriously excited by this tournament?  it all seems completely laughable to me.

Ouch!! Scotchy reading that, will be like a kid finding out santa doesn't really exist! 

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2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'm failing miserably here, with you Tom. First of all let me say that my comments were not directed to you.

Furthermore, the malevolence I speak of is not towards the game, although I've experienced a lot of that, in my life.

The malevolence I refer to is directed at Mr Buchan, Mr Perez, Mr Argyle et al, for daring to do something novel, something unexpected (for the good of the game as it happens) and backing their ideas with their own resources.

If they'd come cap in hand, and begged for permission they'd have received a better welcome, I'm confident of that.

The root of this malevolence, is envy, which sadly is the most common emotion on the planet. That's why I'm not surprised by it.

It goes almost undetected amongst the envious but its ugly, hateful and wrong.

Why is it wrong? because it vilifies people, not for their vices but for their virtues. They are despised not for their shortcomings but for their qualities,  in short, because they are good. And I abhor it wherever I see it. What kind of society are we creating when its permissible to punish the virtuous?

Regarding your last point. Asking questions is fine, but I think its reasonable to expect people to defer judgement until the information becomes available rather than jump to wholly unsubstantiated (negative) conclusions about the man, his brainchild and his efforts beforehand.

The majority of the pre-judgements can be classed as negative, many employing ridicule and its simply unjust, so I'm standing up for them, until the evidence is in.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, because I admire them and their ilk. I hope there's lots more to come. 

I think thats all fine and valid, but I really have my doubts that you or Buchan are fighting that envy here. The RLEF aren't exactly the flat cap and whippets brigade.

This hasn't generally been a forum discussion off scoff and sneer. Its been far more "hmm I'm not sure that makes sense" and that has been compounded by the interactions people have had with Buchan and EuroXIIIs themselves.

You may think that its reasonable for people to wait and defer judgement, what some people in and around the competition are saying they don't have enough information themselves. Its abductive reasoning in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that is leading people to skeptic positions. And these, like I said, aren't the fervent traditionalist types, but those with great ambitions for the game and its growth.

Benefit of the doubt is fine, but has to be earned in some way. Clearly Buchan has done enough for you and not enough for others.

I don't know what exactly you have signed up to, do you? 

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52 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

is anyone actually seriously excited by this tournament?  it all seems completely laughable to me.

A European Club Competition sounds great. However, when you actually break it down and look at it, the lack of clarity or detail, the fact it’s an amateur competition, the questions over funding and the fact it’s got a load of “new” teams taking part makes it look a bit of a joke. 

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50 minutes ago, del capo said:

I'm a recently retired criminal lawyer Irish . Envy not in my game anymore .No need  either to lecture me on the English Justice system

Some of my better clients retired to Turkish invaded North Cyprus, Morocco and even southern Spain

Dealt with all sorts in my time and always started with being ' reasonable '

I'm pleased to meet you.

My reference to the British courts wasn't meant to be a lecture on the system.

Just a plea to you, to reconsider your opinion of me. 

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43 minutes ago, yanto said:

Yes 16 clubs and to be honest all the posters on here who despite asking questions hopes it succeeds..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the good of the game. 

Well we have something in common then. 

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4 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I'm pleased to meet you.

My reference to the British courts wasn't meant to be a lecture on the system.

Just a plea to you, to reconsider your opinion of me. 

Don't take me wrong mate.

These threads are such great fun.

I don't opinionize on anyone on here.....

When I said some of my clients had retired to outposts where European arrest warrants  are not applicable or hard to use I should have said re-located...… but still in business   ….. and that's before I  even talk about packages  from  Latin America...………..

Keep the posts coming.  Love it all

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25 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think thats all fine and valid, but I really have my doubts that you or Buchan are fighting that envy here. The RLEF aren't exactly the flat cap and whippets brigade.

This hasn't generally been a forum discussion off scoff and sneer. Its been far more "hmm I'm not sure that makes sense" and that has been compounded by the interactions people have had with Buchan and EuroXIIIs themselves.

You may think that its reasonable for people to wait and defer judgement, what some people in and around the competition are saying they don't have enough information themselves. Its abductive reasoning in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that is leading people to skeptic positions. And these, like I said, aren't the fervent traditionalist types, but those with great ambitions for the game and its growth.

Benefit of the doubt is fine, but has to be earned in some way. Clearly Buchan has done enough for you and not enough for others.

I don't know what exactly you have signed up to, do you? 

Well Tommy, I don't want to go over old ground.

Would you be happy if I said your interpretation of some of the comments is different to my own? 

You move to confidence, then certainty, through abductive reasoning, only with the accumulation of more and more evidence.

The earlier comments were completely devoid of any evidence for or against, so nothing more than wild baseless speculation.

I think whether you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt is a matter for each of us and his conscience.

I haven't signed up for anything, I'm not part of any bid, to take part and you are right, I've no idea what they've signed up for.

 

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15 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Well we have something in common then. 

Quoted the wrong line.. But you get the jist. 33 in the backs heat and glare on the telephone is my excuse ?

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1 hour ago, Impartial Observer said:

Eric Perez?

You don't believe in fair play, you want people with ideas to ride roughshod over conventions and rules. Is that a strong enough opinion for you?  

 

I notice you've stopped calling me friend. I called you it, because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, like an impartial observer might. I'm now worried it might have offended you. You seem convinced of ''something'' about Perez, that I know nothing about, perhaps you can enlighten me? You seem also, to have abandoned your impartiality with regard to me. Just for the record, I'm dead against people riding roughshod over anyone in any walk of life but I am an advocate for peoples freedom to organise a rugby match, (or a tournament for that matter) without kissing someone else's a....e  before they can do it. 

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52 minutes ago, Impartial Observer said:

Do you mean Dean Buchan doesn't really exist? 

Do you mean you wish he didn't exist? 

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27 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I notice you've stopped calling me friend. I called you it, because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, like an impartial observer might. I'm now worried it might have offended you. You seem convinced of ''something'' about Perez, that I know nothing about, perhaps you can enlighten me? You seem also, to have abandoned your impartiality with regard to me. Just for the record, I'm dead against people riding roughshod over anyone in any walk of life but I am an advocate for peoples freedom to organise a rugby match, (or a tournament for that matter) without kissing someone else's a....e  before they can do it. 

You mentioned my friend that Eric Perez had used his ideas and resources, I asked for proof of this as you clearly know what he has put into the clubs?

When I was involved with a team we used to inform the League Secretary if we had arranged a friendly so they could sanction it and appoint a referee. It also meant more importantly that the game was covered for insurance purposes. Not really kissing anyone's backside is it? Maybe it is done differently in Wales.

As participant figures go towards funding the rfl gets from sport england I assume in some way the number of games each club play go towards this so by informing the league the game can get counted.  

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