TRL Helpdesk - grad job or further study?

[Tommygilf]

Hi all. I'm looking for some advice on the title. Coming to the end of my MA now I feel like I could go into further study at PhD level (though not this September rather September 2021) or get a grad job.

Funding for further study is available and wide ranging and I'm confident I could secure enough, but narrowing down a research topic that is viable seems somewhat difficult - especially if I was to continue at my current university. (Basically I'd need to learn a language to do one of my potential theses). That problem is compounded by how starting at a different University would be a huge step that I don't feel necessarily confident enough to make.

I don't want to sound ungrateful but I really dislike the idea of a grad job in an accountancy firm or something like that. I just don't think its for me. I'd work in the police or civil service happily and have got teaching experience also. Grad schemes have largely closed now but hopefully will reopen in the Autumn

I get the sense that come September I have 9 months to do something. What, in these lockdown days, do you advise TRL forum dwellers? Thanks in advance 

[Damien]

I was going to say with the lockdown and uncertainty in the jobs market at the moment then a PhD may be a good option if you can get funding and if it is something you wish to do, then I realised you said 2021. Is there a reason you cant do it this year? 

One thing I always wished to do after Uni was go traveling and it has always annoyed me that I never did it - I have my now wife to thank for that. Obviously that isn't an option at the moment.

Its a tricky one all round in the current circumstances and I have been no help at all 

[Futtocks]

Tricky decision; if you could get a grad job doing something interesting, it might be good personal development and some experience to stick on your CV when you finish with education. The Civil Service has their own job site, so you could look there and see what's going.

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi 

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, Damien said:

I was going to say with the lockdown and uncertainty in the jobs market at the moment then a PhD may be a good option if you can get funding and if it is something you wish to do, then I realised you said 2021. Is there a reason you cant do it this year? 

One thing I always wished to do after Uni was go traveling and it has always annoyed me that I never did it - I have my now wife to thank for that. Obviously that isn't an option at the moment.

Its a tricky one all round in the current circumstances and I have been no help at all 

Cheers! Travelling has come up (as has doing a PhD abroad) but with the current scenario who knows how that is going to go on. 

I only finish the Masters in September and to be quite honest missed the boat on a lot of the scholarship applications for this year.

I was considering doing the PhD on Rugby League and weaving that into a way of studying social and political history in the UK and other places, ie France, Australia NZ and PNG. Finding a academic funding may be a bit difficult though!

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Tricky decision; if you could get a grad job doing something interesting, it might be good personal development and some experience to stick on your CV when you finish with education. The Civil Service has their own job site, so you could look there and see what's going.

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi 

I've had a look and really am just a bit stuck with it to be honest. A lot of the civil service jobs are way above entry level too.

[Red Willow]

The Civil Service has a fast track scheme, they move around different Govt Depts for experience

 

[Bleep1673]

Get a job, pay in to society.

[Bob8]

13 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Cheers! Travelling has come up (as has doing a PhD abroad) but with the current scenario who knows how that is going to go on. 

I only finish the Masters in September and to be quite honest missed the boat on a lot of the scholarship applications for this year.

I was considering doing the PhD on Rugby League and weaving that into a way of studying social and political history in the UK and other places, ie France, Australia NZ and PNG. Finding a academic funding may be a bit difficult though!

As a bloke with a PhD, I do not regret taking it, but my reasons were very practical. I had moved to two workplaces, that had shutdown shortly after, I had had to get a job out of my industry and the career was in a rut. Getting a decent job was not an option.

I would warn you that any subject you love will have that love sorely strained after a few years. When you will be doing it for ###### all money and no great job prospects, I would find it a major risk. But, you know yourself what your main life goals are.

So, what are they?

[JonM]

18 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't want to sound ungrateful but I really dislike the idea of a grad job in an accountancy firm or something like that. I just don't think its for me. I'd work in the police or civil service happily and have got teaching experience also. Grad schemes have largely closed now but hopefully will reopen in the Autumn

For a couple of years, I ran the grad scheme at a large tech company (~250 graduates per year). A lot of big tech companies are still hiring like crazy (my eldest son finishes uni this month and his graduate software job is paying a jaw-dropping salary) but I'm hearing from a lot of other big companies that hiring is basically cancelled. I think this year is going to be a very bad year to graduate and it's going to be significantly harder to get a job than in previous years. There's evidence that those who graduated in 2008 are still on average on lower salaries than people who graduated a couple of years later - because they got stuck in not-so-good jobs. Police have had a revamp of the their graduate training program and they suddenly have big numbers of vacancies that they're struggling to fill - they have to hire another 3000 by March - with nearly half of those in London.

The real question, though, is what do you actually want to do? Doing a PhD because you couldn't find a job doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness. Too soon to say whether travel is really going to be an option.

[Bob8]

So, Tommy, in broad terms with specific examples:

- What have you enjoyed in work, study and projects?

- What have you disliked in work, study and projects?

- What have you been good at in work, study and projects?

- What have you been bad at in work, study and projects?

And, finally, where would you like to be in life and who would you like to be?

[MattSantos]

3 hours ago, Bob8 said:

 

And, finally, where would you like to be in life and who would you like to be?

Steve May

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

Steve May

Good idea! I had him over recently, when travel to Copenhagen was a reasonable aspiration. Very nice man.

[wilsontown]

Doing a PhD is potentially massively rewarding, but it's also a significant risk. You need to find something that you are really really interested in pursuing. If you aren't all that interested in your thesis it will most likely be a disaster. You could end up with a complete numpty of a supervisor, and you'll be spending a few years earning buttons when you could be making a start on a decent graduate career. But as Bob has said, first you need to figure out what sort thing you might be interested in doing. The graduate job milk round is not all there is to the world of work, either.

[JohnM]

Further study until you can do no more. This may open up opportunities currently invisible.

Then join the more than 5 million  who work in the public sector. Most secure place to be, especially at present. No pension worries, no furlough, get paid when you are off sick, above average holiday entitlement, forum adulation, ..the list of benefits is endless.

Going against a lifetime of thinking the opposite, I will advise grand daughters #3 and #4 to go for a public sector job when the time comes. 

[Tommygilf]

On 14/05/2020 at 13:22, Bob8 said:

So, Tommy, in broad terms with specific examples:

- What have you enjoyed in work, study and projects?

I've enjoyed creative freedom and being relatively trusted to lead things independently. I try to make whatever work or study I do as stress free as possible by being prepared and willing to put in extra work in certain places so that they are less problematic later on.

On 14/05/2020 at 13:22, Bob8 said:

What have you disliked in work, study and projects?

The tedious and ostensibly unnecessary. Essentially my experience of poor management at work, mainly indirectly for me fortunately, and unnecessary activity in study really put me off some stuff. The subjectivity to which my particular area of study (History) is observed and marked is also a bugbear as it seems you're often working to the tutor which is different in almost every case. I've generally been able to navigate this but it is a common complaint amongst my peers.

On 14/05/2020 at 13:22, Bob8 said:

What have you been good at in work, study and projects?

It's a cliché but I've been good at what I like. I'm good at communicating across a range of age levels and subject matters. I'm hard working and have been told I'm a positive presence in the workplace. I work well under pressure and can work to deadlines to produce work of a high standard

On 14/05/2020 at 13:22, Bob8 said:

What have you been bad at in work, study and projects?

I think I lack confidence to ask questions sometimes which can mean I miss out on opportunities or access things later than I could have. Perhaps its an inherent lack of self-belief. I think I could further improve my organisation.

On 14/05/2020 at 13:22, Bob8 said:

And, finally, where would you like to be in life and who would you like to be?

I'd like to do something worthwhile, which I know sounds cliché. The PhD is at least in part motivated by a belief that I've had some pretty shoddy tutors and the thought that "I could do that better!" Perhaps that's arrogance but its how I feel! Teaching has come up of course and I've had experience working at my old school as well as a few others - I enjoy it but would not want to be stuck in the sort of schools my parents and I have worked before. 

Maybe I should go into politics...

[Tommygilf]

On 15/05/2020 at 08:11, JohnM said:

Further study until you can do no more. This may open up opportunities currently invisible.

Then join the more than 5 million  who work in the public sector. Most secure place to be, especially at present. No pension worries, no furlough, get paid when you are off sick, above average holiday entitlement, forum adulation, ..the list of benefits is endless.

Going against a lifetime of thinking the opposite, I will advise grand daughters #3 and #4 to go for a public sector job when the time comes. 

That's certainly been thought about. Both my parents are in the public sector (though neither started that way) and right now it seems like a godsend.

[Copa]

It depends on your situation in life.

As my studies were coming to an end a few things happened.

I had the opportunity head down the PhD path, my partner became pregnant and 3 different government departments offered me a position in their graduate programs.

I needed to pay for a family so I went to work and never studied formally again. I would really enjoy completing a PhD but it wasn’t to be.

If you enjoy study, don’t mind student income and you’re confident you’ll be employable at the end, stay at university.

[Wolford6]

Do a year's teacher training while you think about things. You can get good grants and teaching is a golden path if you're a scientist.

 Mind you, you'll have to up your whingeing quotient. Then you can spend the summer on French campsites following the Tour de France but never forgetting to moan about how much marking you have to do.

[MattSantos]

9 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

Do a year's teacher training while you think about things. You can get good grants and teaching is a golden path if you're a scientist

. Mind you, you,ll have to up your whingeing quotient. Then you can spend the summer on French campsites following the Tour de France but never forgetting to moan about how much marking you have to do.

This.

Or travel and teach overseas whilst you're thinking.

[Bob8]

On 16/05/2020 at 12:38, Tommygilf said:

I've enjoyed creative freedom and being relatively trusted to lead things independently. I try to make whatever work or study I do as stress free as possible by being prepared and willing to put in extra work in certain places so that they are less problematic later on.

The tedious and ostensibly unnecessary. Essentially my experience of poor management at work, mainly indirectly for me fortunately, and unnecessary activity in study really put me off some stuff. The subjectivity to which my particular area of study (History) is observed and marked is also a bugbear as it seems you're often working to the tutor which is different in almost every case. I've generally been able to navigate this but it is a common complaint amongst my peers.

It's a cliché but I've been good at what I like. I'm good at communicating across a range of age levels and subject matters. I'm hard working and have been told I'm a positive presence in the workplace. I work well under pressure and can work to deadlines to produce work of a high standard

I think I lack confidence to ask questions sometimes which can mean I miss out on opportunities or access things later than I could have. Perhaps its an inherent lack of self-belief. I think I could further improve my organisation.

I'd like to do something worthwhile, which I know sounds cliché. The PhD is at least in part motivated by a belief that I've had some pretty shoddy tutors and the thought that "I could do that better!" Perhaps that's arrogance but its how I feel! Teaching has come up of course and I've had experience working at my old school as well as a few others - I enjoy it but would not want to be stuck in the sort of schools my parents and I have worked before. 

Maybe I should go into politics...

That you were able to answer the questions thoughtfully means you are in as good a position as you can be to decide.

It is important to have a long term goal and know what you want from life. Then choose the path accordingly, rather than choosing the path first. If you are in a rush to get married and have a family, the PhD path is not the way, but if you want to go farther into research, it is about the only way.

Good luck.