Aussie Insularity Strikes Again

[The Future is League]

3 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Exactly and nobody knows if we’d see something similar should a load of players out their hands up for Scotland, Ireland or Wales but it’s worth a try, isn’t it?

Not many quality players will line up for the Celtic nations as money speaks.

On side note though i do believe that once you have played for a nation at senior level  you shouldn't be allowed to switch, but that's a debate for another day

[Allora]

Those dam Aussies holding back Tonga, Samoa, Fiji  and PNG.

[The Future is League]

1 minute ago, Allora said:

Those dam Aussies holding back Tonga, Samoa, Fiji  and PNG.

I think it could be the other way round in the not to distance future with the demographics in the NRL now.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Exactly and nobody knows if we’d see something similar should a load of players out their hands up for Scotland, Ireland or Wales but it’s worth a try, isn’t it?

So you’d want four English teams in a World Cup? 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

I think it could be the other way round in the not to distance future with the demographics in the NRL now.

The sense of Tongan and Samoan identity amongst those communities in NZ and Aus, seems strong and unlikely to diminish through future generations. It could even grow via pride in their national RL teams. Given how positive this is for the international game, we will surely be making a big mistake if we view this through the lens of our British Isles associations with plastic Paddys etc.

[Hela Wigmen]

8 minutes ago, Eddie said:

So you’d want four English teams in a World Cup? 

We’ve got four anyway. 

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

We’ve got four anyway. 

Yeah, and it’s rubbish. There should be a home grown quota in international rugby. 

[Hela Wigmen]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yeah, and it’s rubbish. There should be a home grown quota in international rugby. 

Oh god, no. That would be awful. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Just watching the Salford vs Hudds Magic game from 2012. They are pushing the exiles game during game... Wish we still had that 

Roses origin would be great but don't like the way southern players have to play for Lancs.... For sone reason I would steer towards Yorkshire if I had to support one

Sorry BB, I was quite warming to you and liked reading your comments but you have just lost all sense of dignity for me, choosing to support Yerksher? This lockdown is really effecting some folk in some peculiar ways

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Exactly and nobody knows if we’d see something similar should a load of players out their hands up for Scotland, Ireland or Wales but it’s worth a try, isn’t it?

No!

The World Cup is just an extension of the NRL with some English French and PNG players added to make up the numbers. 

[Harry Stottle]

55 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The sense of Tongan and Samoan identity amongst those communities in NZ and Aus, seems strong and unlikely to diminish through future generations. It could even grow via pride in their national RL teams. Given how positive this is for the international game, we will surely be making a big mistake if we view this through the lens of our British Isles associations with plastic Paddys etc.

But how long is the Grandparent ruling going to run effectively, most players for the Island teams qualify through that method.

[Hela Wigmen]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No!

The World Cup is just an extension of the NRL with some English French and PNG players added to make up the numbers. 

I’d rather watch Super League players suit up for Ireland, Wales or Scotland than watch a load of homegrown player get hundreds stuck on them. I enjoyed the USA side from 2013 that had a number of Australians in it, the 2017 version were a tough watch because of how out of their depth they were. 

As you said, players should play for one country and one country only but that’s another discussion. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Sorry BB, I was quite warming to you and liked reading your comments but you have just lost all sense of dignity for me, choosing to support Yerksher? This lockdown is really effecting some folk in some peculiar ways

Ha ha.... Think it's a mixture of liking Yorkshire puddings and fancying Tanya Arnold..... I am sure the North West has plenty gling for it too

 

[DoubleD]

18 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Ha ha.... Think it's a mixture of liking Yorkshire puddings and fancying Tanya Arnold..... I am sure the North West has plenty gling for it too

 

It really doesn’t

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

It really doesn’t

Wash yer mouth out.

[The Great Dane]

On 23/05/2020 at 23:03, Hela Wigmen said:

How is it a negative?

Unlike e.g. Fiji and PNG, where to build competitive teams it's required the NRL and clubs actually go to those countries and invest money and resources into the local RL community, Tonga and Samoa can build really strong teams made up exclusively of heritage players.

So instead of money and resources being indirectly funneled into the sport locally in Samoa and Tonga, which would lead to the sport being in a stronger position on the ground in Samoa and Tonga as the NRL becomes a legitimate career path for locals, teams are being built almost exclusively of heritage players whom are actually from Australia and NZ.

In the short term those heritage players has lead to strong Samoan and Tongan teams, but in the long term less and less of those heritage players are going to be eligible to play for Samoa and Tonga, which will lead to the quality of their teams dropping, and the lack of investment into the sport back home in Samoa and Tonga will mean that they won't have a steady supply of home grown talent to replace the heritage players they have lost. 

Let's put it this way, if there was more incentive to actually grow the sport in Samoa and Tonga, like there is in Fiji and PNG, then we might be seriously talking about a Samoan team in the NSW or Q Cup (probably not a Tongan one, but that is because of things outside of the NRL's control), and, if sustainable, the long term benefits of that presence on the ground in Samoa would be invaluable to the growth of the sport.

[The Great Dane]

14 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’d rather watch Super League players suit up for Ireland, Wales or Scotland than watch a load of homegrown player get hundreds stuck on them. I enjoyed the USA side from 2013 that had a number of Australians in it, the 2017 version were a tough watch because of how out of their depth they were. 

As you said, players should play for one country and one country only but that’s another discussion. 

What is the point of having internationals at all if it isn't to help grow the sport in those countries?

If you made professional RL a legitimate career path in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland, i.e. there was a direct path from playing the sport in those countries to the SL, then not only would the sport grow in those countries, but their national teams would develop into strong teams made up of locals.

It's an indictment of RL, but particularly on the RFL frankly, that there're more Irish professional Aussie Rules players in the AFL than professional RL players.  

[Hela Wigmen]

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

What is the point of having internationals at all if it isn't to help grow the sport in those countries?

If you made professional RL a legitimate career path in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland, i.e. there was a direct path from playing the sport in those countries to the SL, then not only would the sport grow in those countries, but their national teams would develop into strong teams made up of locals.

It's an indictment of RL, but particularly on the RFL frankly, that there're more Irish professional Aussie Rules players in the AFL than professional RL players.  

People want successful teams to support. How else do you get that in the short to medium term?

[unapologetic pedant]

19 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Sorry BB, I was quite warming to you and liked reading your comments but you have just lost all sense of dignity for me, choosing to support Yerksher? This lockdown is really effecting some folk in some peculiar ways

 

16 hours ago, DoubleD said:

It really doesn’t

 

13 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Wash yer mouth out.

The levity in these cross-Pennine exchanges illustrates why County of Origin has never taken off. Where`s the vicious enmity? In cricket, as a Lancastrian, I can`t stop myself instinctively supporting Yorkshire against anyone other than Lancashire. We`ve all gone soft.

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

People want successful teams to support. How else do you get that in the short to medium term?

You don't, you forgo that unsustainable short term success for long term sustainability.

You didn't answer the question, what's the point of internationals if it isn't to grow the sport? 

[Hela Wigmen]

8 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

You don't, you forgo that unsustainable short term success for long term sustainability.

You didn't answer the question, what's the point of internationals if it isn't to grow the sport? 

And how do you grow a side that plays at a police club in Glasgow without it being a successful side? 

I’ve not said the point of Internationals isn’t to grow the sport. That’s a daft premise and you’ve put words into my mouth. I think you can grow International Rugby League this way. 

[DoubleD]

18 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

 

The levity in these cross-Pennine exchanges illustrates why County of Origin has never taken off. Where`s the vicious enmity? In cricket, as a Lancastrian, I can`t stop myself instinctively supporting Yorkshire against anyone other than Lancashire. We`ve all gone soft.

It’s called envy. Most Lancastrians are envious of God’s country over here. Entirely understandable, we don’t begrudge you. 

[DoubleD]

5 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Unlike e.g. Fiji and PNG, where to build competitive teams it's required the NRL and clubs actually go to those countries and invest money and resources into the local RL community, Tonga and Samoa can build really strong teams made up exclusively of heritage players.

So instead of money and resources being indirectly funneled into the sport locally in Samoa and Tonga, which would lead to the sport being in a stronger position on the ground in Samoa and Tonga as the NRL becomes a legitimate career path for locals, teams are being built almost exclusively of heritage players whom are actually from Australia and NZ.

In the short term those heritage players has lead to strong Samoan and Tongan teams, but in the long term less and less of those heritage players are going to be eligible to play for Samoa and Tonga, which will lead to the quality of their teams dropping, and the lack of investment into the sport back home in Samoa and Tonga will mean that they won't have a steady supply of home grown talent to replace the heritage players they have lost. 

Let's put it this way, if there was more incentive to actually grow the sport in Samoa and Tonga, like there is in Fiji and PNG, then we might be seriously talking about a Samoan team in the NSW or Q Cup (probably not a Tongan one, but that is because of things outside of the NRL's control), and, if sustainable, the long term benefits of that presence on the ground in Samoa would be invaluable to the growth of the sport.

There’s plenty of domestic rugby league now being played in Tonga off the back of the success of the national team

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

It’s called envy. Most Lancastrians are envious of God’s country over here. Entirely understandable, we don’t begrudge you. 

No, no and thrice no, how does the saying go, Yerksher born and bred, strong of arm and thick in the ................, granted the countryside (wi or bawt hat'on) isn't bad though away from the maddening crowds.

Even the national emblem of our whole country is the Red Rose of Lancashire, not the White one of Yerksher. 

Get out of that one DD

[DoubleD]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, no and thrice no, how does the saying go, Yerksher born and bred, strong of arm and thick in the ................, granted the countryside (wi or bawt hat'on) isn't bad though away from the maddening crowds.

Even the national emblem of our whole country is the Red Rose of Lancashire, not the White one of Yerksher. 

Get out of that one DD

There’s nothing to get out of Harry, you’ve precisely emphasised my point on the deep rooted envy that exists over t’other side. Sometimes that envy runs so deep it becomes personal. 

Alas, it is mostly good natured these days and the rivalry is not what it was. We are quite happy to let the great unwashed from the other side of the Pennines venture over to see the riches of the land in God’s own country