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Man of Kent

Super League ‘to restart in August’

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Model 1 is actually the only serious option there. Hopefully sky would be happy with that - the idea of playing multiple games at the same venue would give sky lots of content without extra costs, so here's hoping that works for them. 

January finish is absurd, and even December for club footy is getting ridiculous. The best thing would be a finish by end of November, and give England a December hit out against someone. 

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11 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I see a lot of talk about big crowds over Christmas, have the UK authorities given any indication as to when crowds are going to be allowed to gather? The reason I ask is that here in BC (around 2800 cases in total, 80% recovered, around 160 deaths), we are being told definitely no crowds at sports till a vaccine is found, to put into context our daily number of new cases is around 10-20 and there are major concerns about things exploding, do you guys there think it is realistic to think there will be crowds at RL games before the 2021 season?

I don't think there has been anything confirmed from the UK government on that but there was a Northern Ireland five-step document which took us to December based on everything going the best way possible and the relevant line there is "Spectators can attend live events on restricted basis".


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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if premier league can start in june, why cant rugby league? November finish to tie up with contracts. 22 match season. then play-offs

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10 minutes ago, kev p said:

if premier league can start in june, why cant rugby league? November finish to tie up with contracts. 22 match season. then play-offs

I don’t think Rugby League can afford the levels of testing that the premier league are doing to ensure safety of players & staff for that earlier date - plus I believe a slightly longer “pre season” is required due to the physical demands of the sport

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8 minutes ago, kev p said:

if premier league can start in june, why cant rugby league? November finish to tie up with contracts. 22 match season. then play-offs

As has been pointed out elsewhere the Premier League needs to spend millions on testing kits, and keeping players, coaches,  security staff, caterers etc in a quarantine bubble for weeks on end to ensure the virus doesn't enter the " Premier League Restart Project ". RL can't afford this, and even in Model One has too many games left for that to be practical. Starting later in the summer gives hope that perhaps these prohibitive costs might be lessened. 

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9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Option 3 has got Leeds written all over it. Desperate for the cash. Let’s hope there isn’t a second spike in the winter...

Option 3 is 100% GH's option, theres a piece in the local Yorkshire paper from him and he's giddy at the prospect of option 3. Which teams agree with him is the important thing, id guess the same teams voting for a cap reduction will be with him. My feeling is option 3, or a slightly modified version of option 3, is what we'l get.

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1 minute ago, HawkMan said:

As has been pointed out elsewhere the Premier League needs to spend millions on testing kits, and keeping players, coaches,  security staff, caterers etc in a quarantine bubble for weeks on end to ensure the virus doesn't enter the " Premier League Restart Project ". RL can't afford this, and even in Model One has too many games left for that to be practical. Starting later in the summer gives hope that perhaps these prohibitive costs might be lessened. 

exactly, and I don't mean this to be negative but it's a statement of fact:

the Premier League are working towards what they're basically going to do (unless the government stops them) because they're going to throw money at it.

Super League and the RFL are working towards what they'd *like* to do, provided things continue to get better, and working at a speed which doesn't suck all the remaining cash out of the game to spend on bubbles. They're trying to hit the sweet spot between that and just losing all the cash anyway. To borrow John's words, if they do nothing for long enough the game will collapse. If they do something and get it wrong they'll crash the game into the ground themselves. What they're trying to do is a cost effective middle ground which will be very much dependent on circumstances well outside their own control.

Frankly I wouldn't swap with any of them.

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5 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Model 1 is actually the only serious option there. Hopefully sky would be happy with that - the idea of playing multiple games at the same venue would give sky lots of content without extra costs, so here's hoping that works for them. 

January finish is absurd, and even December for club footy is getting ridiculous. The best thing would be a finish by end of November, and give England a December hit out against someone. 

Seems the obvious to me and we have good experience already of grouping games together.  

I understand the need to save the game as a priority but we can still look forwards and plan for the WC.  It would be interesting to know what Wane would prefer.

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13 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Seems the obvious to me and we have good experience already of grouping games together.  

I understand the need to save the game as a priority but we can still look forwards and plan for the WC.  It would be interesting to know what Wane would prefer.

I'd love to see the internal thinking on the WC but I would imagine the current thinking could best be expressed as 

  • get SL going again and make as much money as possible this year and next, because that's where the money comes from
  • cross your fingers that the WC can happen
  • publicly claim you're playing in the WC to win it, privately admit you're hoping for losing finalists, and mentally just hope we don't get dumped out by Fiji in the quarters. Tell your psychiatrist in the privacy of the consultation room that you'll settle for making it out of the groups
  • either way, start seeing/positioning the WC internally (regardless of what you do externally) as a big event to show that the sport hasn't died, and the North is still open for business, rather than a showcase for RL per se, or in any way a "normal" tournament

 

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1 hour ago, rhinos78 said:

Option 3 is 100% GH's option, theres a piece in the local Yorkshire paper from him and he's giddy at the prospect of option 3. Which teams agree with him is the important thing, id guess the same teams voting for a cap reduction will be with him. My feeling is option 3, or a slightly modified version of option 3, is what we'l get.

Told you!

My gut feeling is we need to get this season over and done with ASAP while meeting contractual obligations. Playing until January, it seems to me, increases the risk that the season doesn’t get completed.

We’ve got the £16m loan, we don’t need to get greedy.

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39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

What a huge disappointment that would be

I agree, but I genuinely can't see an alternative. If the issue is saving the sport, then we can't wait until the world cup (even though the world cup itself has got to be part of it obviously). 

I'd settle for SL bringing in as much money as possible and a world cup that is successful without being what we all hoped it was going to be when it was first planned. Ie, if it's competent, relatively enjoyable as an international festival, and England aren't an embarrassment then box ticked and move on. 

It's a missed opportunity that we're going to miss for the right reasons for once, I think that's just the way it is. The World Cup is really important, but IMO it's not the priority we thought it was in December. The time between now and then is on the other hand more important, but less so as a preparation for the world cup, and more so as a baling of the water that's rushing in through the holes in the hull in a way it wasn't in December.

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1 hour ago, iffleyox said:

I'd love to see the internal thinking on the WC but I would imagine the current thinking could best be expressed as 

  • get SL going again and make as much money as possible this year and next, because that's where the money comes from
  • cross your fingers that the WC can happen
  • publicly claim you're playing in the WC to win it, privately admit you're hoping for losing finalists, and mentally just hope we don't get dumped out by Fiji in the quarters. Tell your psychiatrist in the privacy of the consultation room that you'll settle for making it out of the groups
  • either way, start seeing/positioning the WC internally (regardless of what you do externally) as a big event to show that the sport hasn't died, and the North is still open for business, rather than a showcase for RL per se, or in any way a "normal" tournament

 

I think we have to have a more positive approach than that.  Whatever promises we make, have to be kept and a focus on having the best possible WC we can hold, whatever the circumstances.

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17 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Everything we do as a sport in this country should be highly geared towards England working towards, becoming and retaining number one status on the planet. 

I would agree but for that to happen we need to have a SL level competition playing full time to achieve that. So you have to factor in how to ensure clubs survive.

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Best way for me is to finish the season end November with the Final at Spurs on the date booked for the E v A 3rd test (Providing crowds are allowed back by then)

Hopefully then we can start next season (Slightly reduced March start would be perfect)

It is so important that the WC is a success although commercially I don't see any hope of major sponsors at present and to be honest it seems far too late for any major sponsor to put their hands in their pockets right now (Large budgets are set way ahead) the whole thing commercially seems to me to be all about government funding community etc, they are very lucky that the current government needs to step up to the plate on the (Northern powerhouse etc) as without government  support commercially it looks very poor.

Bean counters and technocrats comes to mind I am sorry to say.

 

Paul

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55 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Told you!

My gut feeling is we need to get this season over and done with ASAP while meeting contractual obligations. Playing until January, it seems to me, increases the risk that the season doesn’t get completed.

We’ve got the £16m loan, we don’t need to get greedy.

The £i6M is not there to get SL going again.

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7 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I think we have to have a more positive approach than that.  Whatever promises we make, have to be kept and a focus on having the best possible WC we can hold, whatever the circumstances.

Thing is though, I don't think what you've said here contradicts what my "chairman on the psychiatrist's couch" post says. Obviously they're going to have to (and must) sound upbeat publicly, but I'd lay odds that while they are going to want to hold "the best possible WC we can hold", what that looks like isn't going to be what we all hoped it would look like in the beginning. Nor, I suspect, could it.

Basically I agree with you.

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4 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

Thing is though, I don't think what you've said here contradicts what my "chairman on the psychiatrist's couch" post says. Obviously they're going to have to (and must) sound upbeat publicly, but I'd lay odds that while they are going to want to hold "the best possible WC we can hold", what that looks like isn't going to be what we all hoped it would look like in the beginning. Nor, I suspect, could it.

Basically I agree with you.

Fair enough mate.  I think the situation is more of an opportunity than an obstacle.  We can’t do much about the Covid, only be governed by what the Government permit, but it might just be an opportunity to create more event based weekends.  RL can’t be criticised for not trying things out either.

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

What is the sport?

Is it each individual club? We have lost many clubs over the history of the game. The game wasnt dead because we lost crusaders, or oxford, or Gloucester.

Is it the pro league? If it isnt the world cup the most important thing as the showcase.for the pro game. If we lost a few clubs or consolidate is the game dead?

Areas of the game are seeing water rushing in that's true. But the how and why arent all entirely covid related. And they arent going to be solved here.

The game is in a precarious position but patching up the holes wont save it. 

There is a good chance that being too short sighted and not being able to 'take the hit,' will leave the game in a worse position

The game seems desperate to get to where it was pre covid, forgetting that didnt really work anyway. 

We can cut our cloth accordingly if we want, but a lower salary cap, poorer players, playing for 16months none stop is going to create an inferior product. Come next year we are in a massively weaker position when it comes to tv rights, if they are cut significantly it's all for naught.

Any savings/rescued revenue we get this year pale in comparison to the importance of the next tv deal.

We can cut cut cut and stretch what we have thinner and thinner but fewer and fewer people are going to pay less and less for that.

We are mortgaging our future betting on a business model that hasnt worked for us for 60 years.

While I agree with that (broadly), I think I'm being realistic that it's not going to happen.

You're literally (for many of the right reasons) advocating a massive sea change away from something that "hasn't worked for us for 60 years" and is going to need to be implemented by the people who have sat at the top of that, working within that system - whether at the top of the sport or the top of the individual clubs.

Your last line is what is going to happen. It just is. You're asking for something that I can only think of being done successfully on a number of occasions in the world, never mind in sport. The introduction of franchising in US sport is about the only one I can think of - and some of them have done it from the start anyway. Otherwise the only example that comes immediately to mind are the post war reconstruction of Germany.

Your basically asking for a wholesale reorientation/reimagining of English rugby league, but to be done by the current purse string holders of English rugby league who have operated within that system their whole lives, and broadly set it up to suit them and their wallets.

As I say, broadly I think you're right, but I'd be prepared to bet a substantial amount that cutting, stretching, papering over the cracks, etc are what we're going to get.

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7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Fine, loan it all to the championship clubs and they can all go bust next year when SL doesnt start and Sky dont pay. 

I can't remember the specifics, but I do remember that this is public money subject to the public audit process. So it can be spent on what the government has said it can be spent on, and it's not up to the RFL. If that does include SL then all well and good, but if not then regardless of what the money might be "best spent on" then it's not available for it.

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Told you!

My gut feeling is we need to get this season over and done with ASAP while meeting contractual obligations. Playing until January, it seems to me, increases the risk that the season doesn’t get completed.

We’ve got the £16m loan, we don’t need to get greedy.

Well done...But dont think its a big suprise to anyone that Leeds are pushing for option 3, unfortunately i dont think they'l be the only ones...Put 3 options in front of a group of business men, especially at a time like this, theyr most likely going to pick the option that earns them the most cash in the shortest term, thats option 3.

Hope im wrong, but id be shocked if the eventual outcome dosnt look close to option 3, with maybe a couple of modifications

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The final two proposals, I think, would continue after player contracts have ended. What happens there? Has there been any explanation as to how this would effect clubs and players? 

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32 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

Well done...But dont think its a big suprise to anyone that Leeds are pushing for option 3, unfortunately i dont think they'l be the only ones...Put 3 options in front of a group of business men, especially at a time like this, theyr most likely going to pick the option that earns them the most cash in the shortest term, thats option 3.

Yes, Michael Carter for one. Gives the impression he’d step over his grandmother for a shiny penny.

I’d be wary of trying to make a buck out of this situation. If it blows up in our faces there won’t be another emergency loan.

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17 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The final two proposals, I think, would continue after player contracts have ended. What happens there? Has there been any explanation as to how this would effect clubs and players? 

You would expect that players like Luke Thompson and Niall Evalds who have already agreed moves at the end of their contracts would have to honour those (and to have them be honoured by both their present and next clubs) and switch clubs mid season if necessary (though the potential inability of players they are intended to replace to move clubs at the same time may impact those moves in terms of cap space). It is what happens to the rest who as yet have not agreed either contract extensions or moves that would need clarifying. No doubt such things are being discussed but we as fans don't really need to know the ins and outs as yet. If option 2 or 3 are adopted then we may have to accept that other OOC players will move mid season, as there isn't a fair way to say to all other players that haven't had their next contract decided, that they have to stay where they are due to it being mid season.

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33 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

You would expect that players like Luke Thompson and Niall Evalds who have already agreed moves at the end of their contracts would have to honour those (and to have them be honoured by both their present and next clubs) and switch clubs mid season if necessary (though the potential inability of players they are intended to replace to move clubs at the same time may impact those moves in terms of cap space). It is what happens to the rest who as yet have not agreed either contract extensions or moves that would need clarifying. No doubt such things are being discussed but we as fans don't really need to know the ins and outs as yet. If option 2 or 3 are adopted then we may have to accept that other OOC players will move mid season, as there isn't a fair way to say to all other players that haven't had their next contract decided, that they have to stay where they are due to it being mid season.

The cap is finished for this year and maybe next imo with deferrals, furlough etc. 

Perhaps we could make November 30th our mid season "transfer deadline day". There's no way, unless the finishing point for contracts is "the end of the season" rather than the November date, that players could be forced to stay at clubs, especially in the case of Thompson to the NRL for example.

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