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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

The reason Paris played a weakened team was that they were away to Bradord who were at that moment top of the table (and finished there as Champions) and so it was a reasonable assumption that they would lose anyway whereas Oldham were at home to Wigan and therefore might have had a chance of winning (they actually only lost 26-32 which shows the effort they put in). The best option for Paris was to beat Oldham rather than even attempt to defeat Bradford.

As I have said in another post, I don't say it was just the fault of the RFL (although they did contribute to it) but that is was not ONLY Oldham's fault; the Council also had a part to play.

But Paris could have lost to Oldham?

Again that's Oldham's fault not the RFL's

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6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a suggestion, not all clubs may be able to do it, thats life. Make do with what you have.

If concourses are too small then why do they already have kiosks there already?

That is the crucial point you're missing here. Clubs already do this, they already know that what people have said about improving matchday experience is right. They're already providing a catering and experience to fans. The catering and experience just generally isn't that good.

iYO , in mine it's fine at the LSV 

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8 hours ago, iffleyox said:

Isn't the idea though that you wouldn't miss it? Because if it was done properly you're just moving all of that, for home and away supporters, to the ground rather than the pubs, and in the process the club hoovers up all the spend that was going into the pubs.

If you go to Moseley (I know it's the other code...), for example, then all the bars (corporate, clubhouse, specialist real ale, etc) are open from 1200 for a 1500 kick off, and close about midnight with live music from sixish onwards. You might get a whole other match in before the main event - (academy, amateurs, reserves, whatever), the opposition team and supporters coaches arrive about 1 so they're two hours early too. Obviously you've got the people who want to drink in the city centre pubs and turn up at the last minute (so there is a noticeable surge on the gate at 1445) but the ground is busy for hours before hand, and hours afterwards, because fundamentally people want to be there. Decent beer and food, which changes from week to week, and is priced sensibly makes the ground genuinely compete with the pubs. More sides should be looking to do that IMO.

Other than being in bars at the stadium (if I understand correctly) rather than a beer garden that sounds a lot like what happens at Lamport with the Wolfpack.

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1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

I am absolutely sold, on your argument.

I agree that our clubs are poor at increasing their turnover and supporter base, not only to the extent that they're missing their full potential but to the point where the future of the whole game is in jeopardy.

Now, I don't know anyone currently involved in the operation of a professional club and don't have the expertise you speak of, so I wondered, have you approached any one/club and offered to help/advise them in these areas?

I don't mean as an amateur/volunteer if you are disinclined to do that, but on a professional basis. 

I have worked with two SL clubs several years ago but only on very short-term digital briefs. Try talking to RL clubs about any marketing strategy beyond the end of the current season and most look at you like you've beamed down from Mars. 

The vast majority wouldn't pay my rates. 

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6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, I've been to Lyon for Rugby union and it was excellent (game aside). Excellent food and drink available - we had murguez hot dogs. 

Its all about improving that experience.

You were on a ' jolly ' in France , would the same work in Huddersfield on a freezing night in march ?

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8 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

Why's Cricket so packed in India....because every other kid plays it.

Why's basketball & baseball so packed in the United States....because every other kid plays it. 

Why's football so packed in England, Spain, Italy, Brazil....because every other kid plays it. 

If we want growth, if we want expansion we commit to grass roots. 

How do you propose that we inspire all those kids to want to play RL then?

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

You were on a ' jolly ' in France , would the same work in Huddersfield on a freezing night in march ?

Something similar might, and the 15000 other people there can't have all been on a jolly

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4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

iYO , in mine it's fine at the LSV 

Oh great so because you enjoy the LSV then no club needs to try bring in casual fans ever?

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

That is the question .... Why offer that place to a team in a lower division, especially when throughout the season the ruling had been that it was to be a one-up, one-down promotion/relegation issue ?  If Paris had not dropped out then, yes, Hull would have replaced Oldham while Huddersfield would also have remained in the second division. However, when Paris did fold then surely the "one down" was them to be replaced by Hull. Yet it was only when that happened that a ruling was made to promote two teams instead of one. That wouldn't have happened if Paris were still in existance as it would have meant 13 teams in the top flight.

I don't know the ins and outs of it, only that it happened late on in the season, maybe the RFL were aware of any issues Oldham had and therefore thought Huddersfield or Hull were both in a stronger position than Oldham?

I don't know I'm just being presumptuous.

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3 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Robin Park Arena, the facility Wigan bought to use for establishing a fan zone at games (amongst other things not on game days) is directly next to the DW at the south stand end. It isn't a reasonable distance away. It is intended for use before and after the game to provide a reason to gather beforehand and stay afterwards. I think it is reasonable to assume that during the 80 minutes the game itself is the action to be witnessed. The family oriented activities and music etc can be enjoyed either side of the 80 minutes.

I'm fully aware of how close it is I live 7 miles away and occasionally visit to watch the Latics with my son , but it is still seperate from the stadium , it's still not 20/20 is it ?

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

The set up of the stadium allows it, as does Toulouse , as does Albi , not suitable for the KC or the DW 

The Kcom stadium is set within a park, absolutely plenty of scope to have other things going on, same with the DW, there are big open spaces outside the stadium for "fan zones" etc and outside bars etc

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8 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I have worked with two SL clubs several years ago but only on very short-term digital briefs. Try talking to RL clubs about any marketing strategy beyond the end of the current season and most look at you like you've beamed down from Mars. 

The vast majority wouldn't pay my rates. 

My experience, for what its worth, is in sales.

Have you considered employing ''risk reversal'' as a way of persuading suspicious, sceptical and pennywise club owners to get you to do your stuff?

If you are certain you can make meaningful changes (generate growth and monetise it) would you be prepared to do it on a percentage basis? Take your fee, from the profits but in the event that you are unsuccessful let them out of it.

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2 hours ago, meast said:

There's plenty of scope to do something similar at LSV, use a section of the car park or the area between the stands, or in front of the empty/unused East stand, to erect a marquee etc, they do it at Salford and it works pretty well IMO, same at Warrington, same at most grounds if they wanted to do it.

Seriously , you don't understand the issues we have with the LSV management , they are all from Yorkshire apparently 

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2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

My experience, for what its worth, is in sales.

Have you considered employing ''risk reversal'' as a way of persuading suspicious, sceptical and pennywise club owners to get you to do your stuff?

If you are certain you can make meaningful changes (generate growth and monetise it) would you be prepared to do it on a percentage basis? Take your fee, from the profits but in the event that you are unsuccessful let them out of it.

Been there and done that mate! 

I don't do that much contracting these days now that kids have meant that work-life balance is more important - I've thankfully got enough work to keep me busy and I also spend a lot of time (or did before COVID) out of the UK. 

I've worked on performance-related contracts in the past but they're not right in every scenario (either for the supplier or the client). They have a tendency to encourage a focus on short-term rather than long-term metrics. Certainly in the case of most RL clubs, you're talking not just about making short-term changes for a 'quick buck', but a wider cultural shift that might take time to bear fruit. It's very difficult to get RL people to focus on the long as well as the short, in my experience.  

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2 hours ago, meast said:

Don't forget, a lot of clubs don't provide programmes these days, that's something else for the "keep it as it was in the 70's" brigade to bemoan!

You're right though, Batley are a fine example of what you're talking about, they have a decent little ground now and have a hardcore average fan base of around 300-400, but usually attract a lot more than that because it's not just about Batley v Whoever for 80 minutes on a Sunday with a pie, pint programme and 20 bensons anymore.

They have an old HGV trailer at the back of the stand where they put bands on and have beer stalls and barbecues etc, this attracts a lot of fans of other clubs ,especially SL clubs who usually play Friday's they can enjoy an afternoon out watch a game of rugby, listen to a band, have a drink and food and have a nice relaxing entertaining Sunday afternoon out.

They don't seem to have any money problems and seem to be a well run club by comparison to most, it should be the model lots of other clubs, including SL clubs should look to.

 

Yes , Batley do a great job , much down to Kevin, their chairman ,top books , but the ground lends itself to it , and despite all this they are still and most likely always will be a mid table Championship club , about 20th in the scheme of things 

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2 hours ago, meast said:

Then encourage people to use public transport or walk to the games then there is no need for large car parks?

Put on events that may mean people want to leave the car at home so they can have a drink etc and you don't need car parks.

Railway lines and stations were once there for trains and passengers etc!

Some of us work the day after a game , we can't spend all day getting ###### 

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2 hours ago, meast said:

Then encourage people to use public transport or walk to the games then there is no need for large car parks?

Put on events that may mean people want to leave the car at home so they can have a drink etc and you don't need car parks.

Railway lines and stations were once there for trains and passengers etc!

You had to get it in didn't you ? , You wouldn't let it lie ?

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2 hours ago, meast said:

This year when we (Huddersfield) played in Perpignan, 4 of us got the train up to Salses-Le-Chateau to watch the local team Salses XIII, I contacted them via facebook prior to us going to check that the game was on etc and ended up chatting to the president of the club, he invited us to a bar for pre match drinks and basically said we would be his guest of honour

On arrival at Salses, there was a local festival ongoing in the village square with an outside bar, the president welcomed us all, offered us free drinks and food and introduced us to the local mayor and other club officials, then they all sat down and had a meal, after an hour or so we made our way to the ground, they wouldn't accept any payment for entry, after the game most people hung around the ground, drinking, chatting etc and we were invited back to the bar for drinks and food, we were made very welcome by all the players and coaches and had drinks brought to us, we didn't spend a penny.

Most of the players, officials, fans and seemingly half the village were packed into the bar and the square, i presume long after we'd got the train back to Perpignan, that day wasn't just about the 80 minutes on the pitch, it was an event for the whole village to enjoy, and of course 4 visitors from Huddersfield ( and Mirfield!)

It's the same at Catalans, it's not just the game, it's the entertainment surrounding that throughout the day that more clubs should be looking to bring about.

Move to the south of France then ??

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2 hours ago, meast said:

We had a superb day,in reality the rugby didn't really matter,  I can't remember who Salses' opponents were or the score, it was a pretty one sided uneventful game, but the welcome and hospitality we received was fantastic and we will always look to go back there if we have the chance, it could be there could be hundreds of thousands of people like this within the RL heartlands who are just waiting to be attracted?

Try something different, like Toronto, Catalans, Salses etc and not just throw it away in favour of some ridiculous plan to plant a franchise team in Brasilia!

Would you do it every week ?

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3 hours ago, meast said:

Is it me or are some of these expansionists for real or are they planted by the forum owners etc

I can't believe humans can be so crazy and stupid to believe some of the things some of these expansionists think need to happen

Let expansion happen naturally, the game has tried too many times to force feed the sport to people who don't want it, if it's going to happen then let it happen, stop trying to force it, and stop these ridiculous ideas about how and where the game might be played.

Do you think Bandy, GAA, Aussie rules etc are the same or do they accept their game is an exciting game played by a minority of people in small geographical areas? I can't imagine people in Gothenburg coming up with stupid ideas about planting a bandy team in Las Vegas or a debate in a provincial Irish town about taking Hurling to Tegucigalpa and thinking it would work!

Only in RL it seems!

Newsflash: Gaelic football, hurling and Aussie rules are not games played by a minority in their geographical areas, they are the majority sports in those areas so they have a strong base in those places.  An NHL team was planted in Las Vegas three years ago and it's been a big success.  Indeed, 53 years ago the NHL planted teams in several cities which had never had NHL teams before and most of them are still going strong in those same cities and ice hockey most certainly was a minority sport in the US back then.

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

At the moment you're right - that is how the value of a supporter is measured, but it's completely flawed because in many respects, it measures the value of a supporter / customer on the assumption that they are all, in the main, the same. It assumes that there is an "average fan"  - that there is an "average fan" that the game can cater to and that anyone falls below that average isn't worth our time. It ignores the fact that there is no "average fan" - just a very wide group of people that might share certain commonalities but are in fact all individuals with individual wants. 

If your background is as a CFO, an accountant or any kind of 'numbers' person, you'll think that one person buying ten things is the same as ten people buying one thing. You believe that because the spreadsheets say that they are pretty much the same - that logic says that 1x10 is the same as 10x1. 

If your background is in behavioural sciences or behavioural economics, you'll know that 10x1 does not equal 1x10. The relationship you have with one person who buys ten this is completely different to the ten people who each buy one thing. The context is different, what those people want is different and the opportunity is different. 

This is the problem with the ownership of many RL clubs. For as good an accountant that someone like Michael Carter is or as good a legal mind that Neil Hudgell might be, they know nothing about consumer behaviour and behavioural economics; they're numbers people - you wouldn't expect them to. Conversely, the one person in RL who probably does understand that is someone like Simon Moran, and it's reflected in Warrington's social media marketing. 

As a result, all our clubs seem to focus disproportionately on is that small cohort of people who each buy ten things, and hardly any time focusing on the much bigger clusters of ten people who could each be encouraged to buy one thing - because to them 10x1 is the same as 1x10, and its logical, cheaper and easier (particuarly in sport) to focus on the people who buy in bulk. But it's one of the reasons why cup and play-off attendances are as poor as they are - clubs really don't know how to sell to the people who buy less frequently because a disproportionate amount of effort is going to the people who are, to be frank, already sold to. 

But it's an inflexible approach that makes it really difficult, particuarly in an environment where consumer choice and social mobility is much greater, to capture new supporters as that cohort of bulk buyers starts to dwindle. The appraisal of how valuable a fan is is, in my view, completely flawed. 

Not got a clue what you are on about , can you repeat your points in English please ?

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32 minutes ago, meast said:

The Kcom stadium is set within a park, absolutely plenty of scope to have other things going on, same with the DW, there are big open spaces outside the stadium for "fan zones" etc and outside bars etc

But the clubs don't own or run the stadiums 

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29 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

My experience, for what its worth, is in sales.

Have you considered employing ''risk reversal'' as a way of persuading suspicious, sceptical and pennywise club owners to get you to do your stuff?

If you are certain you can make meaningful changes (generate growth and monetise it) would you be prepared to do it on a percentage basis? Take your fee, from the profits but in the event that you are unsuccessful let them out of it.

No because they don't work that way , they are only interested in spending/ risking other people's money , not their own 

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9 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Kept out of the Cricket discussion, but had to had my two-penerth when you say Cricket is boring, each to their own Gubby could you please preceed your comments with "in my opinion" when you state that sport is boring, to mecit is the second finest game on the planet - in all it's forms.

It really is a great sport..... A T20 evening is great fun with mates or with the family. I'd say it's a different experience to rugby but both are fantastic. 

I think with rugby teams need to have an academy or under 18 game before the main fixture... It works well at Broncos and the first game acts as a chance to get to the bar a few times / socialise / get excited 

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1 minute ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It really is a great sport..... A T20 evening is great fun with mates or with the family. I'd say it's a different experience to rugby but both are fantastic. 

I think with rugby teams need to have an academy or under 18 game before the main fixture... It works well at Broncos and the first game acts as a chance to get to the bar a few times / socialise / get excited 

Get ###### 

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