Jump to content

146 teams


Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, del capo said:

So it's still drivel Number 16 after all the above posts ?

I calculate 294 clubs at open age  prior to lockdown ( counting a club as simply the first team so no doubling up  at lower levels for reserves etc) . Probably  equally as many '  stand alone  ' youth and junior clubs.

Where are these 294 clubs? Smudger has produced a comprehensive list of the clubs in Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and the regions and the sum total is only 160/170 clubs in the Community game. 

Scanning the junior/youth leagues it appears that the overwhelming majority of team involved are attached to clubs on Smudger's list, with only a dozen or so that aren't. 

Near enough all clubs and competitions are listed on the RFL's website so numbers are not hard to verify. 

Being generous you could throw into the mix the pro clubs, and student, masters, wheelchair and women's clubs and you would be nearing 300 but these forms of the game are probably outside the scope of this thread. 

But no, I don't see your 294.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply
4 hours ago, Number 16 said:

Where are these 294 clubs? Smudger has produced a comprehensive list of the clubs in Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and the regions and the sum total is only 160/170 clubs in the Community game. 

Scanning the junior/youth leagues it appears that the overwhelming majority of team involved are attached to clubs on Smudger's list, with only a dozen or so that aren't. 

Near enough all clubs and competitions are listed on the RFL's website so numbers are not hard to verify. 

Being generous you could throw into the mix the pro clubs, and student, masters, wheelchair and women's clubs and you would be nearing 300 but these forms of the game are probably outside the scope of this thread. 

But no, I don't see your 294.

 NCL -49

Nwml - 42

yml - 47

Cumbria - 15

Pennine - 26

Universities and Colleges - 68

women - 10

Non Heartlands - 46

Do the maths

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/05/2020 at 08:03, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Same thing happening in cricket and union. The cricket team I used to play for had 3 mens Saturday teams and a Sunday league side. Now struggles to get 11 out for one side. My union team had 4 sides 20 years ago and now one

I suspect its to do with more alternatives for entertainment 

I play a lot less now due to family reasons and old bones

Ok. Agree my cricket club used to run four teams - we now put out one Saturday and one mid week (20/20) team.

bit of coffee smelling needed. The nwc season is just too long, playing a slog week in week out is so 1970s, games don’t have to be just in a 12 team league for clubs to thrive - and new teams appear

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Pie tries said:

Ok. Agree my cricket club used to run four teams - we now put out one Saturday and one mid week (20/20) team.

bit of coffee smelling needed. The nwc season is just too long, playing a slog week in week out is so 1970s, games don’t have to be just in a 12 team league for clubs to thrive - and new teams appear

I wish there was more midweek cricket. I'd prefer a 15 x 8 balls an over format 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/05/2020 at 08:06, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yep. The decline in participation is universal across sport.....

I've been banging on about this on here for years. The single biggest challenge facing RL as a sport is getting people to play. RU, Soccer & Cricket are all in the same boat , but starting from a much bigger base. Its universal across team sport and across Western countries - Australia, France, US & NZ all have the same issues.

Individual sports like running & cycling are seeing big growth - look at the numbers doing parkrun every week before we had lockdown. RL is a very tough sport to take part in. You need to be strong, seriously fit and in a position where you can afford to get a broken bone every now and then. There needs to be versions of the game (like touch or tag) which don't need so many players, which don't need such a big commitment and which are open to a wider range of ages, body shapes & fitness levels. People playing casual 5-aside indoor football with mates from work doesn't diminish full the 11-aside outdoor Sunday league - we need an RL equivalent to that. Korfball is bigger than rugby (union) here in Cambridge because both sexes can play together and it has a good social scene.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 31/05/2020 at 09:17, del capo said:

 NCL -49

Nwml - 42

yml - 47

Cumbria - 15

Pennine - 26

Universities and Colleges - 68

women - 10

Non Heartlands - 46

Do the maths

Yup, you're right, it's nearly 300 including student and women's clubs, though as I wrote in my last post I'd excluded these forms of the sport as up until your post they hadn't formed part of the debate. I, and I suspect others, were talking about the wider community clubs. So we're not too far off one another.

Excluding student and women that leaves us with 210/220 clubs at best with men's OA, and some of them barely deserve the title of a club. How many of them have junior sections and how many field teams right the way through from mini to U16? I live in Croydon and I reckon that I could find as many union clubs within 20 miles that do the latter than exists in RL. 

Our sport really does need to be grabbed by its oval-shaped balls!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Number 16 said:

Yup, you're right, it's nearly 300 including student and women's clubs, though as I wrote in my last post I'd excluded these forms of the sport as up until your post they hadn't formed part of the debate. I, and I suspect others, were talking about the wider community clubs. So we're not too far off one another.

Excluding student and women that leaves us with 210/220 clubs at best with men's OA, and some of them barely deserve the title of a club. How many of them have junior sections and how many field teams right the way through from mini to U16? I live in Croydon and I reckon that I could find as many union clubs within 20 miles that do the latter than exists in RL. 

Our sport really does need to be grabbed by its oval-shaped balls!

Fair comment mate.

This lockdown presents massive problems for all team sports. Just hope we can get out of it fairly intact at the other end.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 31/05/2020 at 09:17, del capo said:

 NCL -49

Nwml - 42

yml - 47

Cumbria - 15

Pennine - 26

Universities and Colleges - 68

women - 10

Non Heartlands - 46

Do the maths

Yes but they are teams mate. NCL for instance, must already have an open age team in Yorkshire Men's League or NW Men's League etc. 

Pennine League, is a winter League so this is extra for Clubs already included through Yorkshire / NW. 

Womens Teams, part of a Club already mentioned? 

Universities and Colleges? I guess you could add them to the total Clubs as separate entities. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

Yes but they are teams mate. NCL for instance, must already have an open age team in Yorkshire Men's League or NW Men's League etc. 

Pennine League, is a winter League so this is extra for Clubs already included through Yorkshire / NW. 

Womens Teams, part of a Club already mentioned? 

Universities and Colleges? I guess you could add them to the total Clubs as separate entities. 

No Smudge

I excluded second and third teams from the list. Pennine for instance run I think to five divisions ( and should get a real bounce if this lockdown is lifted in August / September )  as do the two major summer regional leagues.

Point taken as to the women  but I did not include the SL teams which are to this point still amateur. I'll try and get the true figure off the RFL -- Kelly knows them as part of her job is to sort out everyone's insurance !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, JonM said:

I've been banging on about this on here for years. The single biggest challenge facing RL as a sport is getting people to play. RU, Soccer & Cricket are all in the same boat , but starting from a much bigger base. Its universal across team sport and across Western countries - Australia, France, US & NZ all have the same issues.

Individual sports like running & cycling are seeing big growth - look at the numbers doing parkrun every week before we had lockdown. RL is a very tough sport to take part in. You need to be strong, seriously fit and in a position where you can afford to get a broken bone every now and then. There needs to be versions of the game (like touch or tag) which don't need so many players, which don't need such a big commitment and which are open to a wider range of ages, body shapes & fitness levels. People playing casual 5-aside indoor football with mates from work doesn't diminish full the 11-aside outdoor Sunday league - we need an RL equivalent to that. Korfball is bigger than rugby (union) here in Cambridge because both sexes can play together and it has a good social scene.

Agreed, plus you can run and cycle when you like instead of being committed to a certain time each week. Another factor is Dads are a lot more hands on now than in our parents’ generation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/06/2020 at 19:13, JonM said:

I've been banging on about this on here for years. The single biggest challenge facing RL as a sport is getting people to play. RU, Soccer & Cricket are all in the same boat , but starting from a much bigger base. Its universal across team sport and across Western countries - Australia, France, US & NZ all have the same issues.

Individual sports like running & cycling are seeing big growth - look at the numbers doing parkrun every week before we had lockdown. RL is a very tough sport to take part in. You need to be strong, seriously fit and in a position where you can afford to get a broken bone every now and then. There needs to be versions of the game (like touch or tag) which don't need so many players, which don't need such a big commitment and which are open to a wider range of ages, body shapes & fitness levels. People playing casual 5-aside indoor football with mates from work doesn't diminish full the 11-aside outdoor Sunday league - we need an RL equivalent to that. Korfball is bigger than rugby (union) here in Cambridge because both sexes can play together and it has a good social scene.

Agree.

Any format of the game is a success, RL hardest of all sports to play. Need multiple routes / formats to get people playing. 9s, touch, friendlies, 13s....everything is good !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/06/2020 at 18:52, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I wish there was more midweek cricket. I'd prefer a 15 x 8 balls an over format 

Cricket in big trouble. Long version of game struggling for numbers. Today’s children want shorter format games. All day for a draw no longer attractive. League my club in gone from nine divisions to 5 in less than a decade

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/05/2020 at 22:32, Number 16 said:

300 clubs? Really! What a load of drivel. 

What comps do these clubs play in? I doubt there's barely half that number. 

There is more than 150.. all the leagues are online so why not take a look instead of spouting nonsense. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, yipyee said:

There is more than 150.. all the leagues are online so why not take a look instead of spouting nonsense. 

 

You're behind with the news.

If you'd have taken a look at later posts you'd have seen that I conceded that there are about 210 'clubs' as posted by delcapo.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Number 16 said:

You're behind with the news.

If you'd have taken a look at later posts you'd have seen that I conceded that there are about 210 'clubs' as posted by delcapo.

 

No worries,

Clubs also run 2-3 teams so it's not all doom and gloom.

Not bad when sports teams in general are shrinking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 03/06/2020 at 10:03, Pie tries said:

Any format of the game is a success, RL hardest of all sports to play. Need multiple routes / formats to get people playing. 9s, touch, friendlies, 13s....everything is good !

I think that there's a need for an alternative OA version of the game for the lower levels. Maybe five metre defence and no acting half runs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

History never stops.

 

200 years ago there was little or nothing in the way of organised team sport. Things changed. Economy changed, work and education models changed. Things are changing now.

 

We all know the reasons: Rise of individualism, increasing insurance costs, rise of gig economy, Sunday trading, decline of family unit so "dad" not there, etc etc etc. The list could be expanded to 40 or 50 issues.

 

In RL we also have the general difficulties in the former textile and mining industrial towns that are the heartbeat of the game. EG. Take a town like Batley or Dewsbury or any heartland town to be honest. How many boys aged 10 to 12 are living in a family unit with their dad now compared to 50 years ago in towns like that? A fraction.

 

There are no easy answers. In fact there may be no answers if the aim is to retain the numbers of 40 years ago. We have to accept the reality that things are not what they were.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/05/2020 at 11:12, Smudger06 said:

A mere 41 RFL Community Board Clubs (42 including Edinburgh Eagles from Scotland Rugby League) exist outside of the Core RL Areas, there's another double digit number of Core Area (Heartland if you will) Clubs I'll do a run down of.

West of England League = 6
1. Somerset Vikings
2. Reading Raiders
3. Oxford Cavaliers
4. Cheltenham Phoenix
5. Bath RL
6. Swindon St George

London League = 7
1. Brixton Bulls
2. Elmbridge Eagles
3. London Chargers
4. London Skolars
5. Medway Dragons
6. Newham Dockers
7. West Warriors

South West League = 5
1. Devon Sharks
2. Tarka Storm
3. Dorset County Giants
4. Teignbridge Trojans
5. Saltash Essayons

East Rugby League = 7
1. Brentwood Eels
2. St Ives Roosters
3. North Herts Crusaders
4. St Albans Centurions
5. Southend Sharks
6. Hemel Stags
7. Bedford Tigers

Midlands League = 8
1. Birmingham Bulldogs
2. Telford Raiders
3. Leamington Totals
4. North East Worcestershire Ravens
5. Sherwood Wolf Hunt
6. Derby City
7. Boston Buccaneers
8. Nottingham Outlaws

North East League = 9
1. Edinburgh Eagles
2. Jarrow Vikings
3. West View Warriors
4. Cramlington Rockets
5. Wallsend Eagles
6. Durham Demons
7. Durham Tigers
8. Catterick Crusaders
9. Peterlee Pumas

Does this include the Southern conference?

Also, isn't there a Welsh league?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/05/2020 at 13:11, Smudger06 said:

Yorkshire - 59
Cumberland - 12
North West- 54
North East - 9
Midlands - 8
East - 7
South West - 5
London - 7
West - 6

That's 167 Clubs.

Clubs, not teams. Many of those in the heartlands have 2 Open Age Teams, one in the Regional League, the other in the NCL. Nottingham Outlaws team is in the Midlands and they also run a team in the Yorkshire League. Some of the non heartlands clubs run two teams. One in their Regional League the other in the Southern Conference League.

Isn't there also teams in the Hull and District which could be counted?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27/06/2020 at 10:21, JM2010 said:

Does this include the Southern conference?

Also, isn't there a Welsh league?

My research didn't include Welsh clubs as they are under their own umbrella now, not the RFL. Yes there are teams in the Hull League but their parent Club / 1st team is included in the Yorkshire Men's League figures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The very fact that we find it difficult to come to an agreed total of how many clubs are playing in the men's pyramid is itself indicative of what it wrong with the amateur game.

 

Websites are poor, information is out of date. No one has updated the wiki entry on the National Conference which does not list clubs in the correct league, There seems to be little or no coordination.

 

The model on how to run amateur sport is the GAA in Ireland. i am not being in any way patriotic when I say it is state of the art model.  Over 2,000 clubs in 32 counties in 4 provinces acting as regions, with 5 tiers of club competition below a 32 county tier 1. Competitions seamlessly linked from county to province to countrywide, promotion and relegation clear and easy to understand.

 

Have a look at any county website and compare it to a regional league website.....The GAA is amateur but is professional in how it runs its business. The RFL is professional but amateur in how it runs its business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, noobiefana said:

The very fact that we find it difficult to come to an agreed total of how many clubs are playing in the men's pyramid is itself indicative of what it wrong with the amateur game.

 

Websites are poor, information is out of date. No one has updated the wiki entry on the National Conference which does not list clubs in the correct league, There seems to be little or no coordination.

 

The model on how to run amateur sport is the GAA in Ireland. i am not being in any way patriotic when I say it is state of the art model.  Over 2,000 clubs in 32 counties in 4 provinces acting as regions, with 5 tiers of club competition below a 32 county tier 1. Competitions seamlessly linked from county to province to countrywide, promotion and relegation clear and easy to understand.

 

Have a look at any county website and compare it to a regional league website.....The GAA is amateur but is professional in how it runs its business. The RFL is professional but amateur in how it runs its business.

Some people are counting Clubs, others are counting teams. That's mainly how the confusion is arising. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.