superten Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Am I showing my age but was the late 80s early 90s the golden era of rugby league ? Big crowds in top league as well as good crowds at top of end of division two . More free to view tv games with regal trophy and challenge cup . Scrum down on itv weekly highlights . Big world club challenge nights . Club v tourist games . More trophies on offer . More household known players . The boxing day and Easter big derbies . Have we thrown all this away to cheap with the jump to summer rugby and sky . Was rugby league to frightened of rugby union when that sport turned pro . Did we and do we still lack self believe in our game ? Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Most clubs were on the verge of going bust with low crowds - only Leeds and Wigan were ‘big time’. We were lucky to be rescued by the Super League war in Australia which resulted in a big tv deal for us here. The salary cap was brought in to prevent the death of pretty much every club except the two previously mentioned, although maybe now it’s served it’s purpose we can revisit the way it works. Have a look at Widnes post 1992 for an example of the state we were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldCityLoyal Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Preferred RL back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1990 is when I first clearly recall watching a match on TV - GB vs Australia at Wembley. I have a vague recollection of seeing bits of the 1986 Ashes series, and snippets of Challenge Cup Finals from the late 80's, but nothing concrete. I think I was lucky in that the 1990 series was a belter, so my introduction to the sport was very memorable. Plus the 1st test was at Wembley, which added to how iconic it was. I tend to find that most of my favourite sporting memories are from when I was a kid, so I'm not surprised that it's the same with RL. The 1990 1st and 2nd tests, plus the World Cup Final in 1992, are among my favourite matches from any sport. Then you can add in the 1994 1st test with Jonathan Davies' try, and the World Cup in 1995. I can't comment on how the sport in general was back then, but I certainly have fond memories of those games. I guess it helped that things back then were still on the BBC. Even nowadays I still generally prefer the Beeb's sports coverage. Maybe it's partly because they don't need to go for annoying ad breaks, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Not quite on topic, but I didn't want to start another thread on it... Who was the better player out of Mal Meninga and Wally Lewis? I don't think I ever saw Wally Lewis play, because he was injured for the 1990 series and (I think) retired not long after. Meninga was the most iconic Kangaroo (from my perspective) during the 90-94 period - what with his size and being captain/kicker etc. But I've just been looking at the State of Origin man of the match stats, and Wally Lewis has 8 to Meninga's 1. Is that any guide to who was the better player, since I'm assuming that Meninga would have played in many of those games too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said: Not quite on topic, but I didn't want to start another thread on it... Who was the better player out of Mal Meninga and Wally Lewis? I don't think I ever saw Wally Lewis play, because he was injured for the 1990 series and (I think) retired not long after. Meninga was the most iconic Kangaroo (from my perspective) during the 90-94 period - what with his size and being captain/kicker etc. But I've just been looking at the State of Origin man of the match stats, and Wally Lewis has 8 to Meninga's 1. Is that any guide to who was the better player, since I'm assuming that Meninga would have played in many of those games too? They were very different players. Lewis was the master tactician and captain with great all round skills while still having a significant physical presence while Meninga was more of an impact player by nature of his centre (majority) career and his huge ball carrying ability. They are both in the list of 13 immortals judged to be the best Australian players of all time and so I would have them very much even in terms of standing in the game. Personally I would just pick Lewis if I were forced to choose, but only just. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Immortals_(rugby_league) "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldCityLoyal Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 58 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said: Not quite on topic, but I didn't want to start another thread on it... Who was the better player out of Mal Meninga and Wally Lewis? I don't think I ever saw Wally Lewis play, because he was injured for the 1990 series and (I think) retired not long after. Meninga was the most iconic Kangaroo (from my perspective) during the 90-94 period - what with his size and being captain/kicker etc. But I've just been looking at the State of Origin man of the match stats, and Wally Lewis has 8 to Meninga's 1. Is that any guide to who was the better player, since I'm assuming that Meninga would have played in many of those games too? As a Wakefield fan I’m going to be biased but it’s got to be King Wally Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, Dunbar said: They were very different players. Lewis was the master tactician and captain with great all round skills while still having a significant physical presence while Meninga was more of an impact player by nature of his centre (majority) career and his huge ball carrying ability. They are both in the list of 13 immortals judged to be the best Australian players of all time and so I would have them very much even in terms standing in the game. Personally I would just pick Lewis if I were forced to choose, but only just. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Immortals_(rugby_league) Indeed , it’s a bit of comparing apples and oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigan Riversider Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Meninga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superten Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 We had the best two club sides in the world at that time . I don't think people realised at the time how good Wigan and Widnes were . They were box office . Packed with super stars of the game . I don't think now with salary cap we can say that about any team today . I don't any team has one super star player who you would pay to see unlike then . Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigan Riversider Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 14 hours ago, SL17 said: Nah.. Lewis had the RL brain. Meninga had the power with an unprecedented kicking technique. Both fine players. Wanted to watch Ellery v Wally both play at 6 in 1986. Didn't happen as Ellery was injured. On Kangaroo tours Meninga toured x4 as well as 1 World Cup tour. Walking Wally did 2 and lost his test place as vice captain to Brett Kenny in 1982. Ironically with Wally as Captain in 1986, coach Furner selected Meninga for 1 test only as replacement second row for Noel Crusher Cleale. Both Wally and Meninga had winning records as touring captains. Meninga had more longevity and for me was the better player. As I posted on other threads, Ellery was incensed when Wigan offered Wally £2000 per game for 8 matches in 1986 announced immediately after the 3rd test at Central Park. Wally never came. Wally discovered that taking the law into his own hands against Nick Du Toit was a grave error of judgement too against Wigan in 1986. Meninga had a magnificent season for St Helens 1984-1985. Meninga was the better player and statistically a better kangaroo captain IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 22 hours ago, 17 stone giant said: Not quite on topic, but I didn't want to start another thread on it... Who was the better player out of Mal Meninga and Wally Lewis? I don't think I ever saw Wally Lewis play, because he was injured for the 1990 series and (I think) retired not long after. Meninga was the most iconic Kangaroo (from my perspective) during the 90-94 period - what with his size and being captain/kicker etc. But I've just been looking at the State of Origin man of the match stats, and Wally Lewis has 8 to Meninga's 1. Is that any guide to who was the better player, since I'm assuming that Meninga would have played in many of those games too? When RL journalists choose man of the match, they generally go for either the player who scored the most tries or the player who touched the ball most often. Mal surely had the greater impact on the field at club and Test level. Wally`s legendary status for Queenslanders is as much to do with his remaining in Brisbane, being loathed in Sydney, and his pivotal role in establishing respect for the Maroons in SOO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 30/05/2020 at 10:47, superten said: Am I showing my age but was the late 80s early 90s the golden era of rugby league ? Big crowds in top league as well as good crowds at top of end of division two . More free to view tv games with regal trophy and challenge cup . Scrum down on itv weekly highlights . Big world club challenge nights . Club v tourist games . More trophies on offer . More household known players . The boxing day and Easter big derbies . Have we thrown all this away to cheap with the jump to summer rugby and sky . Was rugby league to frightened of rugby union when that sport turned pro . Did we and do we still lack self believe in our game ? There was a sense of this era being a good one at the time, but perhaps this was more the contrast with the perceived decline in the 70s. If you look at crowds it`s a mixed picture, but some clubs who have since moved to new stadia (Wire, Hull, Saints) get much better regular attendances than back then. The change from 5m to 10m offside rule came just after this period. Whether or not this was necessary, it`s a sign that administrators were not happy with the state of the game. There was a lot more RL on free-to-air TV, but sometimes with the type of coverage more likely to put people off than otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 I absolutely adored Rugby League in the 1980's. Playing for the school or college on a Wednesday afternoon. Going to Central Park on a Friday evening for the A team games. Playing North West Counties junior league on a weekend. Central Park again for the Sunday... or a trip to Knowsley Road or Wilderspool for an away game. And of course being first in the queue as the VHS shop for the Micron Video's to get the Winfield Cup fix. Then the big games such as Cup finals and Kangaroo tours. Looking back it was all perfect but of course it wasn't. It is human nature as we get older to only remember the best of the years gone by. There were plenty of things wrong with the game back then, as there is now, I'm just happy to take the fond memories and not to try and bring back a past that we can't replicate. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigan Riversider Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I absolutely adored Rugby League in the 1980's. Playing for the school or college on a Wednesday afternoon. Going to Central Park on a Friday evening for the A team games. Playing North West Counties junior league on a weekend. Central Park again for the Sunday... or a trip to Knowsley Road or Wilderspool for an away game. And of course being first in the queue as the VHS shop for the Micron Video's to get the Winfield Cup fix. Then the big games such as Cup finals and Kangaroo tours. Looking back it was all perfect but of course it wasn't. It is human nature as we get older to only remember the best of the years gone by. There were plenty of things wrong with the game back then, as there is now, I'm just happy to take the fond memories and not to try and bring back a past that we can't replicate. Well said that man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 30/05/2020 at 15:00, WakefieldCityLoyal said: Preferred RL back then. But if it continued on the path it was on there would probably be no pro/semi pro RL now. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Wigan v Manly World Club Challenge, best game I have ever seen live, and it didn’t need a try! That was a fun period, I used to drive over from Newcastle to watch Carlisle at Gillford Park, the game just seem to have so many more characters then, Carlisle had a whole team of them! Also remember going to see the Kangaroos play Cumbria at Derwent Park, think it was Greg Alexander kicking bombs up so high it felt they were going to space. I know many teams were just about bust then, but it seemed a happier time, test matches were important and RL appeared to have a much higher profile then, GB tests were even discussed at my workplace in Sunderland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 30/05/2020 at 13:44, Cheshire Setter said: Most clubs were on the verge of going bust with low crowds - only Leeds and Wigan were ‘big time’. We were lucky to be rescued by the Super League war in Australia which resulted in a big tv deal for us here. The salary cap was brought in to prevent the death of pretty much every club except the two previously mentioned, although maybe now it’s served it’s purpose we can revisit the way it works. Have a look at Widnes post 1992 for an example of the state we were in. You shouldn't believe everything that Maurice said, remember he had already sold his soul to Rupert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superten Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 29 minutes ago, M j M said: How much RL were the BBC showing before the move to Super League. It was hardly every week. it was virtually every two weeks from October to the challenge cup final in May Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superten Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 In the 1980s we had more different league winners/champions than we have had in the time of super league . Even with salary cap same teams still winning it . 1979-80 , 1980-81 Bradford 1981-82 Leigh 1982-83 Hull fc 1983-84 . 1984-85 Hull kr 1985-86 Halifax 1986-87 Wigan 1987-88 , 1988-89 Widnes Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, superten said: it was virtually every two weeks from October to the challenge cup final in May In all regions or just in Yorkshire/North West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superten Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 37 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said: In all regions or just in Yorkshire/North West? all regions on grandstand Saturday afternoon . Great Britain matches v tourist , 5 rounds of regal trophy , Great Britain v France , 5 rounds of challenge cup . Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, superten said: all regions on grandstand Saturday afternoon . Great Britain matches v tourist , 5 rounds of regal trophy , Great Britain v France , 5 rounds of challenge cup . Don`t forget that, as I mentioned earlier, most of these, right up to the turn of the nineties, only broadcast the second half. Still, the number of games was great and they did go out nationwide. The type of coverage though was abysmal. And you didn`t have to be suffering from advanced RL paranoia to notice all the slights. They once broke from an RL game to cover live the toss-up for the Boat Race. Seriously. I`m afraid I danced on the grave of Grandstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowys Backside Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 31/05/2020 at 20:25, Dunbar said: I absolutely adored Rugby League in the 1980's. Playing for the school or college on a Wednesday afternoon. Going to Central Park on a Friday evening for the A team games. Playing North West Counties junior league on a weekend. Central Park again for the Sunday... or a trip to Knowsley Road or Wilderspool for an away game. And of course being first in the queue as the VHS shop for the Micron Video's to get the Winfield Cup fix. Then the big games such as Cup finals and Kangaroo tours. Looking back it was all perfect but of course it wasn't. It is human nature as we get older to only remember the best of the years gone by. There were plenty of things wrong with the game back then, as there is now, I'm just happy to take the fond memories and not to try and bring back a past that we can't replicate. As a young Leyther, this pretty much summed up my younger years. Loved the Leigh and Wigan rivalry, even though we could never compete post 1984 with them. I remember over 6k turn out just to watch an a team game ! Watched the Manly game catching the 593 as a 12 year old with an old Wigan pensioner saying ''gerrineerrlad" thus having the best seat in the house in a 37000 crowd. Leigh getting blitzed by King Ellery and Co in front of 13000 packed into Hilton Park and Leigh surviving thar season by amazingly doing the double over Warrington on the last game of that season. Losing the Challenge Cup semi to Saints at Wigan in the same season (we should have won) proved how unpredictable RL was in the 80s. Brutal ! Playing against some really fat kid called Andy Farrell at Orrell st James then getting my Aussie fix with the weekly micron videos. People go on about attendances but they were simply more shared out. It would be really interesting to see the increase in overall numbers (if any). Let's hope the game comes back bigger and stronger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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