Oldbear Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 18 hours ago, paulwalker71 said: Bradford have been clear that they want the season to end, and that having to play behind closed doors could cripple the club (again) https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/18472787.bradford-bulls-fear-financial-impact-closed-doors-games/ So don't put the Bulls on any lists of 'willing participants' in some sort of mini-league Just throwing names around. I have previously said I don’t see anything happening below SL until 2021. I only suggested Bradford because they don’t ground share with football (yes I know they do with Dewsbury but as they are totally part time I don’t expect Dewsbury to be interested), and because they have full time players. Realistically there’s only London & Leigh for the Covid Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrogateKnights Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Sainthamish said: Personally, I think the clubs should be more pro active in finding a way to get the season back up and running, within government guidelines, instead of sticking with the furlough limbo that they're in. I was a bit disappointed to hear that the working groups were only set up a couple of weeks ago. I reckon the working groups should have been set up, to investigate routes to restarting the season, weeks before they did. Although the players are on furlough it is likely that some will be facing financial hardship since no match or win bonus are being paid. This could account for the main rugby income of a significant number of players though out the championship and most players in league 1. We're at risk of losing players as they seek to make up this loss through work outside of rugby. It may not be so easy for these players to return to flexible hours or to drop their hours to fit rugby back in. Also, if the season does get cancelled then I guess the clubs will be liable to repay the sponsors and season ticket holders back unless they have contractual clauses protecting them. We paid our 2020 season ticket in June/July 2019 in one payment and the sponsors are local companies too. Everyone I have spoken too fan wise aren't bothered about getting their season ticket money back as would rather donate it to the club and have a club to return too. A couple of suggestions mentioned is either having a family day bbq with the players after lockdown or with us having a new stadium arranging for 2020 season ticket holders to have a tour of the new stadium which both ideas went down well. Sponsors have had plenty of exposure of social media during lockdown and the players particularly at York being part time potentially can do more hours with their day job to cover loss of hours, although I havent seen any contracts we aren't talking soccer player bonuses here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrogateKnights Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 22 hours ago, Sainthamish said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrogateKnights Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 22 hours ago, Sainthamish said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Oldbear said: Just throwing names around. I have previously said I don’t see anything happening below SL until 2021. I only suggested Bradford because they don’t ground share with football (yes I know they do with Dewsbury but as they are totally part time I don’t expect Dewsbury to be interested), and because they have full time players. Realistically there’s only London & Leigh for the Covid Cup. Leigh groundshare with Manchester United Ladies and the MU-U21's occasionally play at the LSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sainthamish Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 2 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said: We paid our 2020 season ticket in June/July 2019 in one payment and the sponsors are local companies too. Everyone I have spoken too fan wise aren't bothered about getting their season ticket money back as would rather donate it to the club and have a club to return too. A couple of suggestions mentioned is either having a family day bbq with the players after lockdown or with us having a new stadium arranging for 2020 season ticket holders to have a tour of the new stadium which both ideas went down well. Sponsors have had plenty of exposure of social media during lockdown and the players particularly at York being part time potentially can do more hours with their day job to cover loss of hours, although I havent seen any contracts we aren't talking soccer player bonuses here. Some fans and sponsors will be happy waiver their season ticket money and sponsorship but, I suspect not all will. I guess it's an unknown that we'll find out if the season does get pulled. Maintaining that financial support next season will be more important than ever so clubs may feel compelled to return the money to maintain the good will into next season. I guess all that is hypothetical at the moment. On the player bonuses. Some players are on little to nothing contract money and rely on match bonuses, especially in League 1. For some clubs, especially those more likely to win games, I reckon this bonus money could be up to £1000 per month. Those players relying on that money are getting nothing at the moment. I think the impact of Covid across the whole game (pro, amateur and kids) could leave a bruise that may never heal. I don't mean on a financial front, I mean on participation in the sport from fans to players. I worry that everyone isn't going to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 01/06/2020 at 09:51, Sainthamish said: Although the players are on furlough it is likely that some will be facing financial hardship since no match or win bonus are being paid. That's not true - for some at least. They get 80% of the higher of (a) their average pay in the 2019/20 tax year, up to the date furloughing was announced and (b) the pay in the corresponding month last year. Win bonuses will be reflected in that. Everyone's not treated the same, obviously. Players who moved clubs will have no 2019 record to fall back on. And there's this £2500 a month cap. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Oldbear said: Just throwing names around. I have previously said I don’t see anything happening below SL until 2021. I only suggested Bradford because they don’t ground share with football (yes I know they do with Dewsbury but as they are totally part time I don’t expect Dewsbury to be interested), and because they have full time players. Realistically there’s only London & Leigh for the Covid Cup. How many Bradford players do you think are full time? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Championship clubs are a really mixed bag with different structures. One element that does apply to a significant number though is their reliance upon volunteers, many of whom will be classified as vulnerable. Just "starting up again" as some suggest is not quite so simple for them. Next, consider the spectators, if and when attendance is permitted. The Championship earned the soubriquet of the "old mans'" league some years ago in mockery of the age distribution of their crowds. If and when the gates are thrown open once more just how many of these vulnerable fans will have the confidence to attend. There are many serious problems facing clubs at this level and they won't be solved by any knee-jerk decisions. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plug Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I was thinking what happens when a club furloughs its players is this just full time players or part time players too so if a part time player has a full time job outside of rugby and is furloughed from his job will he be furloughed from the rugby club too so can a person be furloughed twice for club and employer ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tms Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 01/06/2020 at 09:51, Sainthamish said: Personally, I think the clubs should be more pro active in finding a way to get the season back up and running, within government guidelines, instead of sticking with the furlough limbo that they're in. I was a bit disappointed to hear that the working groups were only set up a couple of weeks ago. I reckon the working groups should have been set up, to investigate routes to restarting the season, weeks before they did. Although the players are on furlough it is likely that some will be facing financial hardship since no match or win bonus are being paid. This could account for the main rugby income of a significant number of players though out the championship and most players in league 1. We're at risk of losing players as they seek to make up this loss through work outside of rugby. It may not be so easy for these players to return to flexible hours or to drop their hours to fit rugby back in. Also, if the season does get cancelled then I guess the clubs will be liable to repay the sponsors and season ticket holders back unless they have contractual clauses protecting them. On a recent rovers tv video LOCKDOWN FITNESS PROGRAMME UPDATE Strength & Conditioning Coach, Greg Stebbings said " the club's been great obviously we've been furloughed but the club has honoured the payments for match bonuses and things for the months they haven't played that were due" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, plug said: I was thinking what happens when a club furloughs its players is this just full time players or part time players too so if a part time player has a full time job outside of rugby and is furloughed from his job will he be furloughed from the rugby club too so can a person be furloughed twice for club and employer ??? Yes, you can be furloughed from multiple jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, plug said: I was thinking what happens when a club furloughs its players is this just full time players or part time players too so if a part time player has a full time job outside of rugby and is furloughed from his job will he be furloughed from the rugby club too so can a person be furloughed twice for club and employer ??? Arent part time players classified the same as contractors etc, so self employed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilCarrington Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, dkw said: Arent part time players classified the same as contractors etc, so self employed? No. They are treated as employee at most clubs(!) and they pay PAYE and Employee National Insurance, so they are in the same position as any other employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: How many Bradford players do you think are full time? Honestly don’t know, I have never been able to figure out Bradfords situation, but I’m guessing they have a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: How many Bradford players do you think are full time? Is it 0? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 hours ago, dkw said: Arent part time players classified the same as contractors etc, so self employed? Players can never be self employed. Well, obviously they can in their day job but not as players. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Toby Chopra said: Yes, you can be furloughed from multiple jobs Not only that, you can get a job at Tesco to pass your time on while you're off from the jobs you've been furloughed from. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 01/06/2020 at 09:51, Sainthamish said: Personally, I think the clubs should be more pro active in finding a way to get the season back up and running, within government guidelines, instead of sticking with the furlough limbo that they're in. I was a bit disappointed to hear that the working groups were only set up a couple of weeks ago. I reckon the working groups should have been set up, to investigate routes to restarting the season, weeks before they did. Although the players are on furlough it is likely that some will be facing financial hardship since no match or win bonus are being paid. This could account for the main rugby income of a significant number of players though out the championship and most players in league 1. We're at risk of losing players as they seek to make up this loss through work outside of rugby. It may not be so easy for these players to return to flexible hours or to drop their hours to fit rugby back in. Also, if the season does get cancelled then I guess the clubs will be liable to repay the sponsors and season ticket holders back unless they have contractual clauses protecting them. The issue is that a lot of clubs ambition is to exist, they have few fans, few ST sales and rely on away support to put cash in tills. The Government comes along offers to pay 80% of wages, it’s like all birthdays came at once for 70% of clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Probably the best option will be to abandon the 2020 season but then start the 2021 in December of this year so that clubs can maybe get some seasonal crowds in. This all assumes that restrictions etc are lifted by that date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 7 hours ago, SL17 said: That option is best today. What’s your option in 2 weeks time? Edit 4 weeks time? Probably the same based on the current likely outcome. If things take a turn for the worse then I would reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 11 hours ago, sweaty craiq said: The issue is that a lot of clubs ambition is to exist, they have few fans, few ST sales and rely on away support to put cash in tills. The Government comes along offers to pay 80% of wages, it’s like all birthdays came at once for 70% of clubs Savings wise, its also like that for many players and fans, although no-one wants it. I'm pretty sure there are thousands like me who can't spend any money apart from on household bills and groceries and are saving money by the bucket load? It's like the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about? On the other hand there are others who are struggling financially, and these are the ones likely to ask for their season ticket money back and may not be able to afford them next year, or even afford gate money? If we want our game to survive its up to us with a bit more spare cash than usual, players and fans alike, to put a bit extra in to help out where those less fortunate cannot, both to help the game and our favourite clubs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sainthamish Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 7 hours ago, SL17 said: I get your point. But what revenue is being generated? Somebody has to open a valve and.make it possible. Simply sitting back in @paulwalker71 world isn’t an answer. Step up to the plate, I agree. My point is that this furlough limbo, may help the finances of many clubs and is good to keep many players getting paid during the lockdown, but it isn't good for the game. Routes to getting the season back on should have been investigated with more effort rather than only setting up working groups to look into it 2 months after the game went into it's hiatus. It's expected that the RFL will approve training in groups of six with no contact in line with the government statement from the other day. Therefore, amateur teams will be able to start some form of team training whereas, pro teams can't because the players are furloughed and training is work from a players perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Steve Slater said: Savings wise, its also like that for many players and fans, although no-one wants it. I'm pretty sure there are thousands like me who can't spend any money apart from on household bills and groceries and are saving money by the bucket load? It's like the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about? On the other hand there are others who are struggling financially, and these are the ones likely to ask for their season ticket money back and may not be able to afford them next year, or even afford gate money? If we want our game to survive its up to us with a bit more spare cash than usual, players and fans alike, to put a bit extra in to help out where those less fortunate cannot, both to help the game and our favourite clubs too. Having said that, it's likely to be next year when there is no furlough that clubs will struggle. Some fans won't be able to afford it and the sick and elderly might not attend so gates will likely be lower. That's when the government loan may come in handy? If it's the same as business loans they could be paid back over 5 years, but players wages will likely suffer by a small amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, Steve Slater said: Savings wise, its also like that for many players and fans, although no-one wants it. I'm pretty sure there are thousands like me who can't spend any money apart from on household bills and groceries and are saving money by the bucket load? It's like the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about? On the other hand there are others who are struggling financially, and these are the ones likely to ask for their season ticket money back and may not be able to afford them next year, or even afford gate money? If we want our game to survive its up to us with a bit more spare cash than usual, players and fans alike, to put a bit extra in to help out where those less fortunate cannot, both to help the game and our favourite clubs too. How about for those who are the unfortunate ones who can't afford much, that clubs do a 'honesty box', those who can afford to pay do so, but those who can't pay what they can when going to a game resumes, I know some will 'try it on' but those with any feelings for their club definatley wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.