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Marauder

Stabilization v Expansion

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The RFL, SL and heartland clubs, as well as many fans don’t want expansion sadly, a prime example being how they looked the Toronto gift horse in the mouth. I expect we’ll carry on as we’ve always done. 

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Oh look another excuse to start  another thread which will soon develop into yet another multi page thread going round in circles...Already one at about 50 pages, just called something different. Lockdown getting to you is it?

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I'd blow the entire £16m 'loan' on expansion teams in New York, Amsterdam and Rio de Janeiro, with free travel for away fans.

RL is dying anyway - might as well go out with a bang and enjoy the last couple of years, all paid for by the Tory government.

Who's with me?

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1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'd blow the entire £16m 'loan' on expansion teams in New York, Amsterdam and Rio de Janeiro, with free travel for away fans.

RL is dying anyway - might as well go out with a bang and enjoy the last couple of years, all paid for by the Tory government.

Who's with me?

Montevideo is the place IMHO, home games at the Monumental with a winter base in Batley. 

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1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'd blow the entire £16m 'loan' on expansion teams in New York, Amsterdam and Rio de Janeiro, with free travel for away fans.

RL is dying anyway - might as well go out with a bang and enjoy the last couple of years, all paid for by the Tory government.

Who's with me?

I believe it wouldn't die and would actually expand (ie attract more supporters) in its traditional areas if the game was promoted more in those communities instead of trying to "force" people into watching it in cities which have no history of RL being played. Many people in long-standing RL areas feel left out now that the focus on their game is mainly given to places where people have limited knowledge of it.

Yes, expand but not at the expense of letting traditional clus just die.

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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10 minutes ago, LaneCoveTiger said:

I believe the RFL are pro expansion, they just don’t want to pay for it. SuperLeague club on the other hand don’t want a bar of it.

Think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I think the major problem with expansion is there’s no plan.

If you want a team in the system and are willing to forgo taking central funding then they’d probably let you in. Instead they should be saying “we want to grow the game in X Country so if your a rich investor and want to set up a club we’ll help and guide you”.
 

I think SL would be more on board with expansion if there was a strategic plan from the RFL

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3 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I believe it wouldn't die and would actually expand (ie attract more supporters) in its traditional areas if the game was promoted more in those communities instead of trying to "force" people into watching it in cities which have no history of RL being played. Many people in long-standing RL areas feel left out now that the focus on their game is mainly given to places where people have limited knowledge of it.

This just isn't true. Who and how is focussing on expansion areas? Not SL or the RFL. The only meaningful expansion is bankrolled by millionaires with their own money. Their loss, probably. 

The reality is the game is still largely stuck in the same old places it's always been in with the same old clubs. Just look at the table. No heartland club is being left out. Some of them are just dying on their own accord while others are still making a fist of it. Good on them.

But this self pitying idea that old clubs are being pushed out just doesn't fit with reality and is really used to cover up the fact that, sadly, the game just doesn't connect with people anymore in some of its historic areas. 

Kick Toronto and London out tomorrow if you like, but don't expect it to trigger a boom anywhere else. 

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21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Montevideo is the place IMHO, home games at the Monumental with a winter base in Batley. 

That would be great for me. 

I quite like Uruguay as a nation and home games at Batley. 

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29 minutes ago, LaneCoveTiger said:

I believe the RFL are pro expansion, they just don’t want to pay for it. SuperLeague club on the other hand don’t want a bar of it.

Think you have got it right regarding the RFL, they also need someone to show them how to do it.

The Super League clubs view is what it is for everything, all fine and dandy as long as they don’t lose their place at the top, which is why we never achieve anything.

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4 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

This just isn't true. Who and how is focussing on expansion areas? Not SL or the RFL. The only meaningful expansion is bankrolled by millionaires with their own money. Their loss, probably. 

The reality is the game is still largely stuck in the same old places it's always been in with the same old clubs. Just look at the table. No heartland club is being left out. Some of them are just dying on their own accord while others are still making a fist of it. Good on them.

But this self pitying idea that old clubs are being pushed out just doesn't fit with reality and is really used to cover up the fact that, sadly, the game just doesn't connect with people anymore in some of its historic areas. 

Kick Toronto and London out tomorrow if you like, but don't expect it to trigger a boom anywhere else. 

Not that I agree with the statement, but if it is not connecting with people anymore in some on the historic areas, then couldn't that be due to those people feling their game no longer belongs to them ? I can only speak of my own area in Oldham ... the game would still thrive here if the team was given the same billing as some non-traditional teams ie : Last season Oldham were promoted by defeating Newcastle in the play-off final yet it was Newcastle who were getting far more publicity. Yes they are doing a great job but surely the publicity should be for the team doing better on the field ? You can have the best off-field activites in the league but until the team rise up the ladder then why should those who have done so be ignored ?

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48 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

expand but not at the expense of letting traditional clubs just die.

How can expansion be achieved without some changes happening to the existing hierarchy?

If you have a top division that includes Toronto, London, New York, etc. (I'm talking about the sort of hypothetical future that sometimes gets mentioned on here), it surely follows that some of the existing SL clubs will eventually lose their status in the top division. That doesn't necessarily mean they will die, but it would mean fans of those clubs coming to terms with them not being SL clubs anymore.

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Not that I agree with the statement, but if it is not connecting with people anymore in some on the historic areas, then couldn't that be due to those people feling their game no longer belongs to them ? I can only speak of my own area in Oldham ... the game would still thrive here if the team was given the same billing as some non-traditional teams ie : Last season Oldham were promoted by defeating Newcastle in the play-off final yet it was Newcastle who were getting far more publicity. Yes they are doing a great job but surely the publicity should be for the team doing better on the field ? You can have the best off-field activites in the league but until the team rise up the ladder then why should those who have done so be ignored ?

So who do you think should be generating that publicity? 

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1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

How can expansion be achieved without some changes happening to the existing hierarchy?

If you have a top division that includes Toronto, London, New York, etc. (I'm talking about the sort of hypothetical future that sometimes gets mentioned on here), it surely follows that some of the existing SL clubs will eventually lose their status in the top division. That doesn't necessarily mean they will die, but it would mean fans of those clubs coming to terms with them not being SL clubs anymore.

But if clubs go down the divisions then some of their fans drift away too. Yes, nobody has a right to be in the top division (well, some have been given that right by the RFL in the past at the expense of others who should have gone up) but will all these expansion clubs bring in the numbers to compensate for those trational fans who are lost to the game ?  Yes, it's a wait and see game.

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50 minutes ago, burnleywelsh said:

So who do you think should be generating that publicity? 

Well, look at the media publicity prior to last season's play-off final and quite a significant amount by supposed unbiased reporters was more on Newcastle having a chance to be promoted rather than Oldham having that same chance. 

I'm not saying they did it deliberately and yes, Newcastle would be a good story but it puts their name more in the public's mind.

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10 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Please explain what you mean by stabilisation. 

Closing the door before the horse has bolted !

(Or, making sure what you've already got is safe before letting it get away while you're out looking for more).

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6 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

We have been stabilizing for decades and ended up going backwards. 

The game itself had committed nothing to expansion 

Expansion didn’t create owt. Only demise in the game. 
The French,and now NA..

Get real.

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5 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Not that I agree with the statement, but if it is not connecting with people anymore in some on the historic areas, then couldn't that be due to those people feling their game no longer belongs to them ? I can only speak of my own area in Oldham ... the game would still thrive here if the team was given the same billing as some non-traditional teams ie : Last season Oldham were promoted by defeating Newcastle in the play-off final yet it was Newcastle who were getting far more publicity. Yes they are doing a great job but surely the publicity should be for the team doing better on the field ? You can have the best off-field activites in the league but until the team rise up the ladder then why should those who have done so be ignored ?

What leads you to that conclusion?  Just how many of the sons and grandsons of the RL players and fans of yesteryear who don't follow the game have you spoken to who have stated that view?

I suggest that it's more likely that those sons and grandsons of the RL players and fans of yesteryear don't want to follow the game is because they've come to see it as too small time, parochial and limited for them.  If so, that's something which can't be solved by just continuing to look after and prop up the traditional clubs as they've always done.

Edited by Big Picture

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If rugby league had never expanded from its heartlands I would probably never become a fan.

I first became introduced to the game when I was working in London, and stuck with nothing to do one afternoon, went along to Crystal Palace Sports centre to watch Fulham v Hull FC. I loved every minute of the game, and over the next 2 and a bit years went to a lot of Fulham games, firstly at Crystal Palace, then the less salubrious Polytechnic Stadium at Chiswick. My next turn in the road came when my work relocated me to the North East, and at that time I got my rugby league fix travelling across the A66 to watch Carlisle, a team full of characters and coached by the larger than life Cameron Bell. Eventually I got my own local team when Gateshead Thunder was formed, and they became my team until I emigrated to Canada in 2009. I lost all touch with rugby league until the founding of Toronto Wolfpack, I guess they are my local team now, even though they are thousands of kilometres away. They are also the first team I have followed who have not seen their very existence in question every season due to yet another cash crisis.

Now if we have no expansion the games loses the chance to find new fans like it did me all those years ago, and from where I’m sitting it could do with as many fans as it can get. I don’t think there’s a future without expansion, so for me there’s no decision to make.

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5 hours ago, SL17 said:

Expansion didn’t create owt. Only demise in the game. 
The French,and now NA..

Get real.

Remember it was expansion areas that sent Great Britain home with their tails between their legs.

 

Melbourne Storm, another great example. Toronto seem to be doing well.

England to me is a bit of a lost cause. Nothing of note will happen until the game has a complete reversal of attitudes towards it. 

Grow the game elsewhere, make people inside England realise there's a whole world out there waiting as long as they want to get into RL. Only then will the game grow in England.

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8 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Not that I agree with the statement, but if it is not connecting with people anymore in some on the historic areas, then couldn't that be due to those people feling their game no longer belongs to them ? I can only speak of my own area in Oldham ... the game would still thrive here if the team was given the same billing as some non-traditional teams ie : Last season Oldham were promoted by defeating Newcastle in the play-off final yet it was Newcastle who were getting far more publicity. Yes they are doing a great job but surely the publicity should be for the team doing better on the field ? You can have the best off-field activites in the league but until the team rise up the ladder then why should those who have done so be ignored ?

Oldham's problems have been caused entirely by Oldham. Stop looking for excuses and someone else to blame.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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5 hours ago, SL17 said:

Expansion didn’t create owt. Only demise in the game. 
The French,and now NA..

Get real.

Posting on here late at night after a few drinks isn't working very well for you, is it?

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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9 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I can only speak of my own area in Oldham ... the game would still thrive here if the team was given the same billing as some non-traditional teams ie : Last season Oldham were promoted by defeating Newcastle in the play-off final yet it was Newcastle who were getting far more publicity.

This seems to be a problem entirely of Oldham's own making.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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