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Stabilization v Expansion


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The RFL, SL and heartland clubs, as well as many fans don’t want expansion sadly, a prime example being how they looked the Toronto gift horse in the mouth. I expect we’ll carry on as we’ve always done. 

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Oh look another excuse to start  another thread which will soon develop into yet another multi page thread going round in circles...Already one at about 50 pages, just called something different. Lockdown getting to you is it?

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1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'd blow the entire £16m 'loan' on expansion teams in New York, Amsterdam and Rio de Janeiro, with free travel for away fans.

RL is dying anyway - might as well go out with a bang and enjoy the last couple of years, all paid for by the Tory government.

Who's with me?

Montevideo is the place IMHO, home games at the Monumental with a winter base in Batley. 

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10 minutes ago, LaneCoveTiger said:

I believe the RFL are pro expansion, they just don’t want to pay for it. SuperLeague club on the other hand don’t want a bar of it.

Think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I think the major problem with expansion is there’s no plan.

If you want a team in the system and are willing to forgo taking central funding then they’d probably let you in. Instead they should be saying “we want to grow the game in X Country so if your a rich investor and want to set up a club we’ll help and guide you”.
 

I think SL would be more on board with expansion if there was a strategic plan from the RFL

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21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Montevideo is the place IMHO, home games at the Monumental with a winter base in Batley. 

That would be great for me. 

I quite like Uruguay as a nation and home games at Batley. 

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29 minutes ago, LaneCoveTiger said:

I believe the RFL are pro expansion, they just don’t want to pay for it. SuperLeague club on the other hand don’t want a bar of it.

Think you have got it right regarding the RFL, they also need someone to show them how to do it.

The Super League clubs view is what it is for everything, all fine and dandy as long as they don’t lose their place at the top, which is why we never achieve anything.

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If rugby league had never expanded from its heartlands I would probably never become a fan.

I first became introduced to the game when I was working in London, and stuck with nothing to do one afternoon, went along to Crystal Palace Sports centre to watch Fulham v Hull FC. I loved every minute of the game, and over the next 2 and a bit years went to a lot of Fulham games, firstly at Crystal Palace, then the less salubrious Polytechnic Stadium at Chiswick. My next turn in the road came when my work relocated me to the North East, and at that time I got my rugby league fix travelling across the A66 to watch Carlisle, a team full of characters and coached by the larger than life Cameron Bell. Eventually I got my own local team when Gateshead Thunder was formed, and they became my team until I emigrated to Canada in 2009. I lost all touch with rugby league until the founding of Toronto Wolfpack, I guess they are my local team now, even though they are thousands of kilometres away. They are also the first team I have followed who have not seen their very existence in question every season due to yet another cash crisis.

Now if we have no expansion the games loses the chance to find new fans like it did me all those years ago, and from where I’m sitting it could do with as many fans as it can get. I don’t think there’s a future without expansion, so for me there’s no decision to make.

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5 hours ago, SL17 said:

Expansion didn’t create owt. Only demise in the game. 
The French,and now NA..

Get real.

Remember it was expansion areas that sent Great Britain home with their tails between their legs.

 

Melbourne Storm, another great example. Toronto seem to be doing well.

England to me is a bit of a lost cause. Nothing of note will happen until the game has a complete reversal of attitudes towards it. 

Grow the game elsewhere, make people inside England realise there's a whole world out there waiting as long as they want to get into RL. Only then will the game grow in England.

new rise.jpg

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5 hours ago, SL17 said:

Expansion didn’t create owt. Only demise in the game. 
The French,and now NA..

Get real.

Posting on here late at night after a few drinks isn't working very well for you, is it?

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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The problems RL has is something all sports have had to deal with since the seventies, a shrinking participation due to change in the working environment making the working week over all seven days and change in how people use their spare time. The sporting environment is down to how sports adapt the ever-changing market place 

 

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Ah stabilization vs expansion.

What does stabilization actually mean, I doubt its what its biggest advocates realise.

Stabilization means focusing resources and prioritising strength: the £16million loan from the government etc. 

What are our strengths then? Thats relatively easy. Leeds, Hull FC, Hull KR, Wire, Wigan, Saints, Huddersfield, Cas, Perpignan, Toronto and Bradford. With the exception of Bradford these are the undisputed strongest clubs in the game in terms of crowds, revenue, investment. There's an argument for Toulouse, Leigh and London to also be included in that list, Wakefield, Salford, Widnes and Fev below them.

Therefore, stabilization in reality means prioritizing these teams. For the people making the decisions there is an even greater bias as its their teams! Turkey's don't tend to vote for Christmas.

Expansion means what it almost always has, open season. In the absence of an administrator with a vision beyond p/r, that is all "expansion" actually offers. 

If I were a fan of a team that was not 100% in that top group, whether my team had been around for 10 years or 100, I'd be praying for expansion, its the only way the game leaves an opportunity open... 

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As I alluded to earlier, another thread on the same subject going round in circles over many pages. Two on expansion at the moment in top 12 threads showing on main page... Do some of you just like going over the same stuff all the time, it doesn't make your argument right (whichever side of the expansion fence you are on) if you just keep posting it ad nauseum. Oh for some rugby to talk about.

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12 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

How can expansion be achieved without some changes happening to the existing hierarchy?

If you have a top division that includes Toronto, London, New York, etc. (I'm talking about the sort of hypothetical future that sometimes gets mentioned on here), it surely follows that some of the existing SL clubs will eventually lose their status in the top division. That doesn't necessarily mean they will die, but it would mean fans of those clubs coming to terms with them not being SL clubs anymore.

How can expansion be achieved without junior development throughout, without it we spread the player base to thin to have a meaning competition,.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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2 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

The problems RL has is something all sports have had to deal with since the seventies, a shrinking participation due to change in the working environment making the working week over all seven days and change in how people use their spare time. The sporting environment is down to how sports adapt the ever-changing market place 

 

Think you'll find it was the fastest growing team sport in the 70's and 80's, it stabilized then started going downhill with the sunshine season, red tape and the closure of so many pubs and clubs.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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16 hours ago, Styx said:

Oh look another excuse to start  another thread which will soon develop into yet another multi page thread going round in circles...Already one at about 50 pages, just called something different. Lockdown getting to you is it?

Narrrr I'm OK with lockdown, is it getting to you grumpy!!!

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

How can expansion be achieved without junior development throughout, without it we spread the player base to thin to have a meaning competition,.

I agree. If you want more clubs, you need to get more people playing the game (e.g. in those expansion areas). I wasn't arguing otherwise. All I said was that expansion in terms of creating new clubs in new areas, has to have some effect on the existing hierarchy. I said that in response to the Oldham fan, because it read as though he didn't mind expansion, but didn't really want anything to change with regards to existing clubs.

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1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

I agree. If you want more clubs, you need to get more people playing the game (e.g. in those expansion areas). I wasn't arguing otherwise. All I said was that expansion in terms of creating new clubs in new areas, has to have some effect on the existing hierarchy. I said that in response to the Oldham fan, because it read as though he didn't mind expansion, but didn't really want anything to change with regards to existing clubs.

The game needs to invest more into development in all areas, IMO the kids in the heartlands develop generally into better players simply because of the standard of competition and coaching they can get,  a good example of a club going out of it's comfort zone and going into the heartlands to play was North Derbyshire Chargers, in a very short time they moved up and became competitive against well established clubs including NCL juniors.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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