DoubleD Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I'm not sure that you can pick which team in the NRL a player must join for success. Look at the Eels as an example... a great start to the year and a lot of people's tip for a finals berth and yet 2018 saw them finish dead last with just six wins (Manly finish second last as well in 2018). The league is so competitive that we can't predict today who will be on top in 2021 never mind 22 and 23. I get what you’re saying but you’re also being very selective there. I don’t think the Dogs will be anywhere near the play offs in the next couple of years and zero chance of winning anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, DoubleD said: I get what you’re saying but you’re also being very selective there. I don’t think the Dogs will be anywhere near the play offs in the next couple of years and zero chance of winning anything Yeah there's a difference too that with the new stadium etc there is a renewed energy behind the Eels now. You don't get the sense that the Bulldogs are building particularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, DoubleD said: I get what you’re saying but you’re also being very selective there. I don’t think the Dogs will be anywhere near the play offs in the next couple of years and zero chance of winning anything Not selective, just an example. Here is another. the Roosters finished second last in 2016 and then second top in 2017. How about the Rabbitohs going from 13th in 2016 and 11th in 2017 to 3rd in 2018. The Raiders were 10th in 2017 and 2018 and are now recognised as top 4 team. Why is it such a stretch to see the Bulldogs go higher up the table from their recent 12th placed finishes. Every year, 20 or so tipsters predict the top 8 on NRL.com and every year no-one gets it right. You cannot predict the NRL play-off's for the next couple of years and you cannot say the Bulldogs will not be in it. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, DoubleD said: I get what you’re saying but you’re also being very selective there. I don’t think the Dogs will be anywhere near the play offs in the next couple of years and zero chance of winning anything But you would said that for Eels and Manly at the end of 2018. I assume the English players sign with the poorer teams due to them having the most salary cap available. I assume the Roosters, coming off a GF win are not going to have 600 - 800k just lying around to sign Luke Thompson. If they did, I imagine they would of kept Latrell Mitchell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superb Chops Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 12/06/2020 at 11:42, Moove said: Disappointed in the club statement, no need for the comments on wages. I can imagine it's difficult when you've already put so much into the club and someone isn't meeting you (or their teammates and club staff) half way, but in that position I think you just have to keep schtum. It won't look great when it's talked about in interviews Thompson does with the Australian media and if he gets homesick in a year and wants to come back there's no way it'll be to Saints now. Disappointed in Thompson too though to be honest. Not so much on leaving early - from a rugby point of view why wouldn't you when we've no idea what the rest of the year looks like for us. We could be another spike away from the season being canned altogether. And similar to when Jammer left I don't think he really owes us anything on the field (although a CC winners medal would have been nice). He's not like an Eastmond who left at the first £ sign after achieving nothing. But morally it's a bit disappointing to see the refusal to support the club through a collective salary reduction. Personally I'd have found it a bit difficult to go back into the club in and around the shop staff, coaches, physios etc knowing they'd all taken reductions or been furloughed while you'd demanded to be kept on your very comfortable salary. Even more so when you know you're getting a huge pay rise in six month's time anyway. That's his prerogative I guess but it does leave a sour taste. Will be difficult to replace, although an opportunity for Matty Lees to step up. It took Thompson coming through before we'd really replaced Jammer so hopefully the club have learned from the (many) recruitment mistakes made from those years in-between. This is a very good post and the closing part of the first paragraph is the bit I too am surprised at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Not selective, just an example. Here is another. the Roosters finished second last in 2016 and then second top in 2017. How about the Rabbitohs going from 13th in 2016 and 11th in 2017 to 3rd in 2018. The Raiders were 10th in 2017 and 2018 and are now recognised as top 4 team. Why is it such a stretch to see the Bulldogs go higher up the table from their recent 12th placed finishes. Every year, 20 or so tipsters predict the top 8 on NRL.com and every year no-one gets it right. You cannot predict the NRL play-off's for the next couple of years and you cannot say the Bulldogs will not be in it. 9 minutes ago, AB90 said: But you would said that for Eels and Manly at the end of 2018. I assume the English players sign with the poorer teams due to them having the most salary cap available. I assume the Roosters, coming off a GF win are not going to have 600 - 800k just lying around to sign Luke Thompson. If they did, I imagine they would of kept Latrell Mitchell. But those teams you mention had a nucleus of good players and didn’t take much to turn them into good teams. Manly had the Turbos, DCE, Taupau and Fonua-Blake. The Dogs don’t have that. I’d even say the Titans have greater potential of moving up the ladder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meast Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: I’ve seen a couple of Saints fans suggest we look at Matty English. I think I’ve only seen him a few times, do you think he could take that step? He's still developing, probably not quite ready to be in the 17 of a top class club, but he's certainly on his way to becoming a very good forward that's for sure. Huddersfield Giants Supporters Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, DoubleD said: But those teams you mention had a nucleus of good players and didn’t take much to turn them into good teams. Manly had the Turbos, DCE, Taupau and Fonua-Blake. The Dogs don’t have that. I’d even say the Titans have greater potential of moving up the ladder Sorry, you just can't say that about the NRL. Look at the Raiders spine for their game today... 1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 6. Jack Wighton 7. George Williams 9. Josh Hodgson How long ago did you predict that spine for the Raiders this year? Three years ago in 2017 or two years ago in 2018. The fact is that only one of those four played in that position for the Raiders before last season. We have absolutely no idea who the key players will be in teams two or three years from now, and we have no idea who will be in the top 4 or top 8. This is one of the great things about the NRL and the reason why there have been 10 different teams represented in the Grand Final in the last 10 years. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Sorry, you just can't say that about the NRL. Look at the Raiders spine for their game today... 1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 6. Jack Wighton 7. George Williams 9. Josh Hodgson How long ago did you predict that spine for the Raiders this year? Three years ago in 2017 or two years ago in 2018. The fact is that only one of those four played in that position for the Raiders before last season. We have absolutely no idea who the key players will be in teams two or three years from now, and we have no idea who will be in the top 4 or top 8. This is one of the great things about the NRL and the reason why there have been 10 different teams represented in the Grand Final in the last 10 years. Again very selective. Wighton played in FB before then and he and Hodgson were key players. They also had a strong nucleus of players led by Croker. Resurrect this thread with me when the Dogs are challenging for honours during the next couple of years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, DoubleD said: Again very selective. Wighton played in FB before then and he and Hodgson were key players. They also had a strong nucleus of players led by Croker. Resurrect this thread with me when the Dogs are challenging for honours during the next couple of years How many examples do I have to provide before you stop describing it as selective. Ok, forget individual examples, take the competition as a whole. 10 of the 16 teams have been Grand Finalists in the last 10 years - that is over 60% of the competition making it to the Grand Final You simply cannot predict the NRL two or three years ahead and Thompson going to the Dogs is as much of a chance of success as a lot of the other teams over there. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 41 minutes ago, DoubleD said: But those teams you mention had a nucleus of good players and didn’t take much to turn them into good teams. Manly had the Turbos, DCE, Taupau and Fonua-Blake. The Dogs don’t have that. I’d even say the Titans have greater potential of moving up the ladder Fair point. In summary, as all teams spend the same on players it doesn't take that long for a team to turn it around. Parramatta, Manly, Knights, Canberra etc and vise versa dropping down like the Sharks, Cowboys etc who were both in grand finals during last 4 years. Remember, Bulldogs are getting Luke Thompson. Some people on this forum say hes the 'best prop in the world'. So you add him with Dylan Napa. Theres reports that they are favourites to sign John Bateman for next year. Now you have a pack consisting of Luke Thompson, Dylan Napa, John Bateman, Josh Jackson, Adam Elliot, Raymond Faitala Talina who are all rep players. I don't see why a team with that pack can't make the top 8. What if they sign Cameron Munster? Then boom! Now your probably competing for the top 4. Jackson Hastings has a get out clause in his Wigan contract. Could be an option. All hearsay, but not unrealistic by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: How many examples do I have to provide before you stop describing it as selective. Ok, forget individual examples, take the competition as a whole. 10 of the 16 teams have been Grand Finalists in the last 10 years - that is over 60% of the competition making it to the Grand Final You simply cannot predict the NRL two or three years ahead and Thompson going to the Dogs is as much of a chance of success as a lot of the other teams over there. Dunbar, we’re going around in circles here, so as I said resurrect this thread with me when the Dogs are challenging for honours during the next couple of years. For clarity, I’m not disagreeing with the competitiveness of the NRL or how some teams can move up the ladder. But I’m looking objectively at the Dogs roster and it will take more than a couple of new players to turn them around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, AB90 said: Fair point. In summary, as all teams spend the same on players it doesn't take that long for a team to turn it around. Parramatta, Manly, Knights, Canberra etc and vise versa dropping down like the Sharks, Cowboys etc who were both in grand finals during last 4 years. Remember, Bulldogs are getting Luke Thompson. Some people on this forum say hes the 'best prop in the world'. So you add him with Dylan Napa. Theres reports that they are favourites to sign John Bateman for next year. Now you have a pack consisting of Luke Thompson, Dylan Napa, John Bateman, Josh Jackson, Adam Elliot, Raymond Faitala Talina who are all rep players. I don't see why a team with that pack can't make the top 8. What if they sign Cameron Munster? Then boom! Now your probably competing for the top 4. Jackson Hastings has a get out clause in his Wigan contract. Could be an option. All hearsay, but not unrealistic by any means. I think i covered a lot of this in my most recent reply to Dunbar. I just don’t see it with their roster. Napa seems well off his best, Jackson also on the decline. The rest aren’t standout. Signing those names would make them competitive but they’d still be a long way off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, DoubleD said: Dunbar, we’re going around in circles here, so as I said resurrect this thread with me when the Dogs are challenging for honours during the next couple of years. For clarity, I’m not disagreeing with the competitiveness of the NRL or how some teams can move up the ladder. But I’m looking objectively at the Dogs roster and it will take more than a couple of new players to turn them around And the point I am making will neither be proven nor disproven by how well the Dogs do in 2021 and beyond. I am making a wider point about the fluctuations of fortunes in the NRL and how attempting to select a team to join purely for future success is almost impossible. In the same way that Sam Burgess had success with the Rabittohs after joining them the year after they finished 11th and John Bateman joining the Raiders the year after they finished 10th, then a UK player could join a bottom 8 NRL club and still enjoy success quite quickly. I don't know if this will be true for Thompson and the Bulldogs but that is kind of my point. And I do understand your point that you are looking more specifically at the Bulldogs. As you say, time will tell. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 If you sign for a champion club, you are criticised for a lack of ambition, because you may not edge out trophy-winners in your position and play every week. If you sign for a club further down last season's table, you are criticised for a lack of ambition in joining a bunch of losers who will remain losers FOREVER - despite evidence to the contrary. If you sign for the NZ Warriors... well you really are a cock-eyed optimist, aren't you? (Hi, Sam!) It isn't that complicated, really. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 20 hours ago, AB90 said: I assume the English players sign with the poorer teams due to them having the most salary cap available. I think Canberra has a specific issue attracting Aussie talent as its a colder and miserable place to live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 So according to the commentary in this mornings game, Thompson is in Melbourne already and quarantined for 14 days in a hotel room. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 prob worst dogs outfit have seen assembled in many a year, along with the titans and dragons staring into the abyss - good luck woth that one see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.