Bedfordshire Bronco Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53005534 Why bother even bringing them back if we ditch them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I would be interested to see a rationale for bringing them back The only argument that comes to mind is 'tradition' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I think a very poor outcome to this whole situation would be to have two sports.... one in the Northern Hemisphere and one in the South. While there has always been variations in the laws in different countries (very annoying in itself) the presence of a scrum in one and not in the other would be a step too far for me. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 At the risk of getting lynched by traditionalists, I wouldn’t miss the scrum at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I imagine the NRL will be watching closely. Their new ‘pick where you pack’ rule hasn’t made a noticeable difference to my eye. Scrums seem to be almost automatically packed in centrefield. Perhaps we’ll just universally bin off them anyway, Covid or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbrigg Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 There is nothing wrong with the scrum. What is wrong is the lack of vision from players and coaches. The teams are set up on the field in a way that offer the potential of great attacking opportunities and inventive plays. Trouble is coaches are too lazy to work this out. I also saw the Canberra game at the weekend and they put on a push against the head. There is also sorts of different things you can do to invent different plays at a scrum to give variation to monotonous scoots or 5 drives and a kick which in my opinion makes many games for the large part look the same, week after week. Scrums are not the problem a lack of vision and tactical invention is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Scrums do give a different dimension to other restarts, but modern players can break from the #### and form the defensive line so fast, it is much less different than it used to be. I wouldn't like to see them go, personally, but they are less effective than in the past. But I am not advocating a return to the barely-controlled shambles that you see in games from the Eighties, either. In short, I don't know what to do. Send the non-packing defenders back further than a regular re-start, maybe? Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 One thing that makes me laugh ( not funny haha ) is the scrum lesson from the ref . Literally telling the players what to do , and don’t push . And put it in there ... you move your leg ... right in there . Oops , that was a proper shove or it came out the wrong way , do it again until it’s a total farce as per the rule now . It doesn’t have to be , it’s just descended to this and noones been much bothered . And it’s a prime attacking opportunity if you wish to make it so , but that would mean taking a slight risk ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The people inside Rugby League have little regard for the scrum and see it as a way of getting play restarted. My opinion on the League scrum is based on how it reflects on us as a sport. 1. Today, it reflects very poorly. The scrum is pathetic and (whether we like it or not) it is compared unfavorable to the scrum in the other code which is positioned as a gladiatorial contest of epic proportions (but equally pathetic in reality). 2. If we remove it I fear there is a real danger that our sport will appear too dull and repetitive to the casual viewer. Which leaves me with the suggestion that we should return it to a contest... not because I like it but because I think it would be best for our sport. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, Dunbar said: The people inside Rugby League have little regard for the scrum and see it as a way of getting play restarted. My opinion on the League scrum is based on how it reflects on us as a sport. 1. Today, it reflects very poorly. The scrum is pathetic and (whether we like it or not) it is compared unfavorable to the scrum in the other code which is positioned as a gladiatorial contest of epic proportions (but equally pathetic in reality). 2. If we remove it I fear there is a real danger that our sport will appear too dull and repetitive to the casual viewer. Which leaves me with the suggestion that we should return it to a contest... not because I like it but because I think it would be best for our sport. I agree, administrators have already made the game too dull and repetitive and removing the scrums instead of fixing them would just make that worse. They're mental even to think of doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Which leaves me with the suggestion that we should return it to a contest... not because I like it but because I think it would be best for our sport. Which was the original purpose . They’ve been allowed to degenerate to this state . And this would get players back in their proper positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 55 minutes ago, Agbrigg said: There is nothing wrong with the scrum. What is wrong is the lack of vision from players and coaches. The teams are set up on the field in a way that offer the potential of great attacking opportunities and inventive plays. Trouble is coaches are too lazy to work this out. I also saw the Canberra game at the weekend and they put on a push against the head. There is also sorts of different things you can do to invent different plays at a scrum to give variation to monotonous scoots or 5 drives and a kick which in my opinion makes many games for the large part look the same, week after week. Scrums are not the problem a lack of vision and tactical invention is. I sort of agree with this, but maybe they are just being very devious and keeping the surprise scrum move as, well, a surprise. I think people will make their minds up on no-scrums pretty soon, probably ten minutes into the first game. Agree that if it goes well there will be very few arguing for a return. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I would be disappointed if we got rid because I think scrums can be so much more than they are. They should offer some much needed unpredictability and more of a contest for possession, two things the game greatly needs in my opinion. I love it when on the rare occasions a team actually pushes and win a scrum against the head or a team executes a great attacking move. Just something different. Just replacing the scrum with a tap or play the ball just adds to the sameness and criticisms that some have of the game. I think the games administrators, in particular, have badly let down the scrum in making it little more than a contestless way to restart the game. The coaches and players have also shown badly let down the scrum through a safety first approach and lack of creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Damien said: I would be disappointed if we got rid because I think scrums can be so much more than they are. They should offer some much needed unpredictability and more of a contest for possession, two things the game greatly needs in my opinion. I love it when on the rare occasions a team actually pushes and win a scrum against the head or a team executes a great attacking move. Just something different. Just replacing the scrum with a tap or play the ball just adds to the sameness and criticisms that some have of the game. I think the games administrators, in particular, have badly let down the scrum in making it little more than a contestless way to restart the game. The coaches and players have also shown badly let down the scrum through a safety first approach and lack of creativity. Agree wholeheartedly. When we have the recurring discussion about the expansion of the game and how we market the sport to a wider audience we have to take a good long hard look at how the sport is perceived. We have refined the sport down to the parts that we like the best but in doing so are we left with a spectacle that doesn't appeal to the wider sporting public as much? Contests for possession are just as much a part of rugby as the execution of skills that you see when that possession is secured. We don't have this now. If we are happy with that then great but let's not expect everyone in the world to like what we like. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEXICO WILL PAY Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The fake scrums are the most embarrassing feature of any sport I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris22 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I wouldn't miss scrums. They naturally get compared unfavourably to union scrums which are contested. I don't really see what feeding the ball through the players legs whilst two packs of six men casually lean against each other adds to the sport. It could add something if teams pushed, strike for the ball or put on set moves, but that is quite rare. I hadn't considered the point earlier about a tap restart appearing a bit stale by comparison, but that is a fair point. The ideal solution would be to have a more competitive scrum without it being an eyesore. The most important thing though is to take a unified approach so we and the NRL aren't playing a different sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Dunbar said: The people inside Rugby League have little regard for the scrum and see it as a way of getting play restarted. My opinion on the League scrum is based on how it reflects on us as a sport. 1. Today, it reflects very poorly. The scrum is pathetic and (whether we like it or not) it is compared unfavorable to the scrum in the other code which is positioned as a gladiatorial contest of epic proportions (but equally pathetic in reality). 2. If we remove it I fear there is a real danger that our sport will appear too dull and repetitive to the casual viewer. Which leaves me with the suggestion that we should return it to a contest... not because I like it but because I think it would be best for our sport. The giving away the ruck and providing an 11yard defensive line is already making the game more repetitive and boring... And too fast. I would add that the benefit of the scrum is at it brings together the forwards and allows the attacking backs space to themselves attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronicler of Chiswick Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The one thing that scrums do now is give the players a chance for a quick breather. While the faster game that we'd get with their abolition shouldn't (sic) be a problem in full time SL, if the abolition became permanent (as things like this have a habit of doing) I wonder if it might be a problem for part time and amateur players - maybe we'd have to move to having four quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 14 hours ago, Futtocks said: Scrums do give a different dimension to other restarts, but modern players can break from the #### and form the defensive line so fast, it is much less different than it used to be. I wouldn't like to see them go, personally, but they are less effective than in the past. But I am not advocating a return to the barely-controlled shambles that you see in games from the Eighties, either. In short, I don't know what to do. Send the non-packing defenders back further than a regular re-start, maybe? They can only break so quickly because they don't need to push. A push from the attacking side would ensure they cant break quickly and thus create better attacking plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans82 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 All it would take is for one Team to say , as from today we are going to bind more tightly and push at every scrum . If the opposition didn`t follow suit , it would seriously disrupt things when they had the feed . It would stop smaller players making the scrum up and it might actually make Coaches and Players think about trying on a few moves for a change ........I`ve always been a bit disappointed with todays rules , that when you have the feed in your own 20 and you have a couple of speed merchants in your Team , nobody seems to want to gamble with just winning the scrum and just belting the ball down the middle of the pitch and making it a foot race , because usually the opposition full back moves into the defensive line and there`s nobody back covering . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, yipyee said: They can only break so quickly because they don't need to push. A push from the attacking side would ensure they cant break quickly and thus create better attacking plays But the attacking side doesn't need to push, because they're guaranteed to win the ball anyway if the defensive side breaks quickly. Personally, I'd be happy to see the scrum go. Currently, it's a legitimate stick for people to beat the game with, in that it isn't really contested and looks a bit of a farce. If scrums become contested, then you risk ending up at the other end of the spectrum where RU spend 10 mins re-forming scrums. The bits of RL that I enjoy most are the running, passing and tackling - not the contest to see who wins possession. I find that deathly dull, and is one of the reasons I get bored to tears watching RU. In terms of the argument about the scrum creating space by getting all the forwards together, what's to stop us implementing a rule whereby we use the lines on the pitch for a re-start and have to put X players between given pitch markings? I.e. like they do in cricket where they are only allowed X fielders outside the ring for certain overs. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered about this, but it would solve the issue of how the scrum creates space on attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Cool Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I'd be happy to see them gone, completely pointless. Unless we can reinvent in some way. Make the pack stay locked in for 10 seconds after ball comes out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbe Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I always thought the scrum could used far more by teams as a set play. You hardly see a contested scrum, foot on the ball to catch people off side etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Cool Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, newbe said: I always thought the scrum could used far more by teams as a set play. You hardly see a contested scrum, foot on the ball to catch people off side etc. yes but the risk there is it confuses his own team, they cock it up or they knock on and lose possession on tackle 1. Possession and territory are far too important in RL. No decent coach would encourage that no matter how much people like Garrrrry Schofield think it should happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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