For the teachers on here

[SSoutherner]

Keeping politics out of it so as a pure intellectual exercise with no reference to what has gone before

 

Can the teachers on here give us their professional opinion on how state schools can be reopened so currently expected social distancing rules can be maintained  - how much "facetime" can a child expect each week with a qualified teacher based on standard staffing levels in a school  ?

Sorry to ask but i hear so many people theorising (myself included) but none of them/us are teachers and so don't have the basics to actually make sensible informed assumptions

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

Opening fully isn’t an option - a max of 1/4 of students in any one day is just about possible. The individual layout of each school wil also determine opening. We are all in one building in three floors. My daughters school has three floors in one building plus three separate blocks - it’s easier for them than it is for us.

Classes will be 7/8 pupils but that’s dependant on classroom size.

In terms of face  to face contact we are working on two days max per student before summer. There remain cp issues around ‘live’ video lessons from staff homes but we are working on streaming from school for entire year groups again at the moment looking at twice a week on that basis using two members of staff to ensure compliance with CP. 

As you say a lot depends on staffing levels. For myself I received a letter from PHW yesterday telling me to keep shielding  yet I’ve not had a letter before and I had contacted my gp three times to check whether I should...they are investigating.....

We are down to about 20 teaching staff out of over 70 for the moment.

[SSoutherner]

45 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

 

Classes will be 7/8 pupils but that’s dependant on classroom size.

 

wow - i had thought 30 would drop to 15 but i guess thinking in 2d not 1d it is a 1/4 not a 1/2 - i guess some subjects easier than others, in my school science we hand practical benches at back and table at front so we could have spread ot more but i know modern classrooms are on average smaller than i was used to (big victorian classroom blocks with high ceilings)

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

Some schools are looking at possibility of 15 as a maximum but as you point out it depends on individual schools classrooms. 

[Bleep1673]

1 hour ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Some schools are looking at possibility of 15 as a maximum but as you point out it depends on individual schools classrooms. 

My daughters school is running 15/classroom, but only years 6, 1 & Reception.

[redjonn]

2 hours ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

 

We are down to about 20 teaching staff out of over 70 for the moment.

surprised with staffing available... just trying to understand why. 50 out of 70... is that 20 on site, so to speak, whilst most of the other 50 are teaching remotely. 

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

4 minutes ago, redjonn said:

surprised with staffing available... just trying to understand why. 50 out of 70... is that 20 on site, so to speak, whilst most of the other 50 are teaching remotely. 

No about 50 of our staff are shielding  - or have significant childcare issues or have a shielding  person living with them including the head who is shielding. Those 50 are working from home and will continue to do so, setting work and giving feedback as well as continuing to make welfare calls each week and any other admin tasks. They just won’t physically be part of the group who are back in from June 29th in the classroom with however many pupils turn up.

[redjonn]

3 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

No about 50 of our staff are shielding  - or have significant childcare issues or have a shielding  person living with them including the head who is shielding. Those 50 are working from home and will continue to do so, setting work and giving feedback as well as continuing to make welfare calls each week and any other admin tasks. They just won’t physically be part of the group who are back in from June 29th in the classroom with however many pupils turn up.

thanks for clarification...

I assumed it may be shielding from your comment on yourself but just thought it was a high number. -that would seem a real problem.

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

No about 50 of our staff are shielding  - or have significant childcare issues or have a shielding  person living with them

.... No way do I believe they are telling the truth

All teachers are key workers so they can send their own kids to school as normal 

That leaves the conclusion 50 out of 70 people of working age need to ..... F****g b******t that we are expected to believe that 72% of staff either have a serious medical condition or live with someone who do

Before you say u might not know what I'm talking about.... I really really do when it comes to this particular topic

The teaching profession is in real danger of destroying its reputation (and bargaining position) for a long time to come 

 

 

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

4 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

.... No way do I believe they are telling the truth

All teachers are key workers so they can send their own kids to school as normal 

That leaves the conclusion 50 out of 70 people of working age need to ..... F****g b******t that we are expected to believe that 72% of staff either have a serious medical condition or live with someone who do

Before you say u might not know what I'm talking about.... I really really do when it comes to this particular topic

The teaching profession is in real danger of destroying its reputation (and bargaining position) for a long time to come 

 

 

You have particular in-depth knowledge of our staff ? I Thought not. You missed out childcare issues, which are amplified here when many of our staff live a significant distance from the school in rural areas and where usual arrangements are not available.

We are looking at providing childcare in the school and have consulted those staff. At the moment we are awaiting responses.

I wouldn't presume to make claims based on someone else's school because each one is different

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

You have particular in-depth knowledge of our staff ? I Thought not. You missed out childcare issues, which are amplified here when many of our staff live a significant distance from the school in rural areas and where usual arrangements are not available.

We are looking at providing childcare in the school and have consulted those staff. At the moment we are awaiting responses.

I wouldn't presume to make claims based on someone else's school because each one is different

I can definitely make the claim that no way do I believe 72% of teachers cannot make it to work

They are allowed to send their own kids to school - fact. So I assume if its a drop off and pick up issue I assume they can come in a little later and leave a little earlier at least?.... Say get into school at 10am and leave 2pm???? Have teachers offered that to do that for SLT???? If those teachers who say they cant make it in for childcare issues how many have partners working in the private sector who are making it to work leaving the teacher to not go to work.... I would predict lots

As I say teachers need to really think about what this will do the reputation of the profession.... and I do care about that reputation 

 

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

And if those children are younger than school age ? Or have complex medical needs ?

Most of our staff have public sector partners or are single parents who are in this position. 

You've also missed out the fact that I've clearly stated that this is the position AT THE MOMENT. Up until now we haven't needed them as the others have volunteered to man the Hub we have been running. Right now I know we have 20 staff available.

We are trying to assist by providing childcare as I stated for when the pupils are meant to be back in from June 29th but that's also dependent on numbers of pupils that are actually attending - less than 1/10th of one percent have been in since lockdown. We almost certainly won't need all of them.

if they stay at home and provide the support and work for students and that is best for them I don't have a huge problem with it.

As far as reputation goes the local community have been very supportive. 

 

 

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

The local community may be but conditions and pay are set on a bigger scale 

I'll go back to it... 72% cannot make it into work -, I'm sure some is genuine but not 72%

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

That's a week on and week off rotation 

By the way I apologise if I am coming off as aggressive... Not meaning to be its just I don't want a minority of rogue staff affecting kids/reputation of the profession 

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

That's a week on and week off rotation 

By the way I apologise if I am coming off as aggressive... Not meaning to be its just I don't want a minority of rogue staff affecting kids/reputation of the profession 

Not at all - we are on 20 definites at the moment. I’ve no doubt that will rise a fair amount but I do know that we’ve only got 3 maths teachers available until the end of summer term for the timetable.

All our staff as you will know have to prove their status to HR and to the Headteacher, so any potential ‘rogue’ would be found out pdq.

 

[distantdog]

4 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

That's a week on and week off rotation 

By the way I apologise if I am coming off as aggressive... Not meaning to be its just I don't want a minority of rogue staff affecting kids/reputation of the profession 

Could I ask if you are making any preparations for the summer holidays? Any catch up programmes etc

[Marauder]

6 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I can definitely make the claim that no way do I believe 72% of teachers cannot make it to work

They are allowed to send their own kids to school - fact. So I assume if its a drop off and pick up issue I assume they can come in a little later and leave a little earlier at least?.... Say get into school at 10am and leave 2pm???? Have teachers offered that to do that for SLT???? If those teachers who say they cant make it in for childcare issues how many have partners working in the private sector who are making it to work leaving the teacher to not go to work.... I would predict lots

As I say teachers need to really think about what this will do the reputation of the profession.... and I do care about that reputation 

 

And those teachers reserve the right to shield 

[Marauder]

6 hours ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

And if those children are younger than school age ? Or have complex medical needs ?

Most of our staff have public sector partners or are single parents who are in this position. 

You've also missed out the fact that I've clearly stated that this is the position AT THE MOMENT. Up until now we haven't needed them as the others have volunteered to man the Hub we have been running. Right now I know we have 20 staff available.

We are trying to assist by providing childcare as I stated for when the pupils are meant to be back in from June 29th but that's also dependent on numbers of pupils that are actually attending - less than 1/10th of one percent have been in since lockdown. We almost certainly won't need all of them.

if they stay at home and provide the support and work for students and that is best for them I don't have a huge problem with it.

As far as reputation goes the local community have been very supportive. 

 

 

 

Think I'd sooner send my kids to your school, calm, positive and clear, 10/10 A*

[SSoutherner]

thank you both - interesting to see the different situations. I am in a fairly urban setting where most children live within a simple cycle or single bus ride (but a significant minority form 1 area have to get bus into the town centre then out again) so for the most part itis teachers who travel not children, I know a fair number of staff (haven't seen a figure for last 2 weeks) are not available through shielding (them or a family member). Be interesting to see how the staffing shortfall is addressed.

 

Assuming 90% staff availability (a reasonable maximum i would guess) how many extra staff would be needed to teach all yr7-13 in socially distanced classes IF the correct accommodate could be found ? I guess some subjects harder than others, I know there is only 1 teacher qualified to teach A Level physics at my daughters school (if there was more he would have been sacked)

[Northern Eel]

I have around 80% of my staff available, but 100% are genuinely working. None of them are swinging the lead. That’s more than enough for what we need. We’ve 74 Primary kids in currently, with a capacity (space is the issue, due to 15 pupil per class limit) of 105. That would normally be 280.

The biggest challenge is drilling into some parents’ head what it means to socially distance away from school. They either don’t get it, or don’t care. 
 

[Northern Eel]

16 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

thank you both - interesting to see the different situations. I am in a fairly urban setting where most children live within a simple cycle or single bus ride (but a significant minority form 1 area have to get bus into the town centre then out again) so for the most part itis teachers who travel not children, I know a fair number of staff (haven't seen a figure for last 2 weeks) are not available through shielding (them or a family member). Be interesting to see how the staffing shortfall is addressed.

 

Assuming 90% staff availability (a reasonable maximum i would guess) how many extra staff would be needed to teach all yr7-13 in socially distanced classes IF the correct accommodate could be found ? I guess some subjects harder than others, I know there is only 1 teacher qualified to teach A Level physics at my daughters school (if there was more he would have been sacked)

Rules were relaxed to make it clear that there need only be one adult in front of 15 pupils and that they did not have to be a qualified teacher, merely under guidance from them.

Space will always be a limiting factor in any scenario involving social distancing. For example, at 1.5m you still couldn’t manage over 18 in an average-sized classroom, or 22 with 1m. 

[SSoutherner]

4 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Rules were relaxed to make it clear that there need only be one adult in front of 15 pupils and that they did not have to be a qualified teacher, merely under guidance from them.

Space will always be a limiting factor in any scenario involving social distancing. For example, at 1.5m you still couldn’t manage over 18 in an average-sized classroom, or 22 with 1m. 

i was more thinking secondary where subject knowledge is more of an issue not just teaching/training expertise

[Northern Eel]

Just now, SSoutherner said:

i was more thinking secondary where subject knowledge is more of an issue not just teaching/training expertise

That’s an interesting perception. 

[SSoutherner]

4 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

That’s an interesting perception. 

well it is my perception based on daughter being taught by only qualified physics teacher who is a misogynistic git - she was one of 2 girls the other dropped out of the subject, last year both girls dropped out and the year previous 1 of 3. In that time 1 boy dropped physics after A1. He appears to keep his job as in this area physics teachers capable of teaching ALevel are like hens teeth, so doubling the number of required staff would make it even less likely a girl would get decent teaching. I assumed other subjects like languages have similar staffing issues by ALevel (the school dropped German as no teachers available)

[Northern Eel]

7 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

well it is my perception based on daughter being taught by only qualified physics teacher who is a misogynistic git - she was one of 2 girls the other dropped out of the subject, last year both girls dropped out and the year previous 1 of 3. In that time 1 boy dropped physics after A1. He appears to keep his job as in this area physics teachers capable of teaching ALevel are like hens teeth, so doubling the number of required staff would make it even less likely a girl would get decent teaching. I assumed other subjects like languages have similar staffing issues by ALevel (the school dropped German as no teachers available)

Agree for A level. But younger age groups, I don’t.