For the teachers on here

[SSoutherner]

3 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Agree for A level. But younger age groups, I don’t. 

i said earlier from a layman's viewpoint i reckoned/guessed up to yr9 was more about being a good educator then after that  you need subject knowledge/passion as well (not instrad)

[Northern Eel]

9 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

i said earlier from a layman's viewpoint i reckoned/guessed up to yr9 was more about being a good educator then after that  you need subject knowledge/passion as well (not instrad)

I’m just intrigued how you separate those attributes by age. My staff would be out of the door quicker than they could shout ‘expanded noun phrase’ if they were so devoid of subject knowledge and passion. 

[SSoutherner]

11 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

I’m just intrigued how you separate those attributes by age. My staff would be out of the door quicker than they could shout ‘expanded noun phrase’ if they were so devoid of subject knowledge and passion. 

because any numerate person with education knowledge can teach yr7 maths, any literate person (not me) with education knowledge can teach yr7 english. But I don't believe even the best teacher can teach GCSE English literature Macbeth or Cover a case study of a major UK city analysing the human challenges created by Urban change for GCSE Geography without subject knowledge and a passion for that subject.

I got through English Literature  but it leaves me cold, i could not enthuse a 14 year old to be interested in Macbeth, all the good teachers I had (including the English lit one) were able to make unenthused pupils be interested enough in a subject to apply themselves due to the teachers passion for it. If there are teachers who can feign passion for a subject that leaves them cold then great brilliant and I would think they are the most valuable members of your staff. 

My old school facebook page is currently full of news of a maths teacher from when i was at school who has just died - he always took yr9 set 3 maths, set 1 & 2 took OLevel Maths a year early, a bunch of the comments are people saying he took them aside and gave them 1 to 1 attention where he could see that just needed something to click and it suddenly fell into place and they were upped to set 2 at the end of the year and took their OLevel a year early (mainly getting B's & C's) which allowed them to concentrate on other subjects the next year. That is the kind of teacher I really admire - i could manage to explain the yr9 maths syllabus but i doubt i could recognise and coach those pupils needing the extra nudge

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

As a general rule, we wouldn’t timetable a non specialist with a class above Year 8, in exceptional circumstances Year 9.

In those cases it’s normally where we would slot a member of SLT if needed, but there would be lot of support from members of the faculty involved for that staff member.

[SSoutherner]

16 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

As a general rule, we wouldn’t timetable a non specialist with a class above Year 8, in exceptional circumstances Year 9.

In those cases it’s normally where we would slot a member of SLT if needed, but there would be lot of support from members of the faculty involved for that staff member.

Thanks

 

That is sort what I expected give or take and why I guess you can't just magic up the extra staff needed to teach yr 9 upwards even if suitable buildings could be found to accommodate them

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

14 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Thanks

 

That is sort what I expected give or take and why I guess you can't just magic up the extra staff needed to teach yr 9 upwards even if suitable buildings could be found to accommodate them

Also depends on what the school has decided to do. We (ie my school) are simply staffing ‘bubbles‘ of 7/8 pupils within a year group as in Wales we are ‘checking in catching up and prepping for Sept’.

Staff are being allocated with specialisms to those classes as best as we can but for nine and ten maths as I’ve already mentioned we are stuffed until the end of term. A Level we’ll be ok for all subjects.

But until you know how many staff you have available.....

[SSoutherner]

8 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Also depends on what the school has decided to do. We (ie my school) are simply staffing ‘bubbles‘ of 7/8 pupils within a year group as in Wales we are ‘checking in catching up and prepping for Sept’.

Staff are being allocated with specialisms to those classes as best as we can but for nine and ten maths as I’ve already mentioned we are stuffed until the end of term. A Level we’ll be ok for all subjects.

But until you know how many staff you have available.....

Our school has the disadvantage it has become popular - 7 yrs ago when the eldest joined it had just gained a new head after a poor OFSTED and had 1041 on the role - now after the preferred local school opened another free school locally and took over a thrid and was perceived to have spread it's expertise too thin plus getting a much better OFSTED the role for next year is oversubscribed for every yr apart from yr11 with about 1400 pupils expected - that means they were struggling for space without the problems of social distancing. They already run a fortnightly timetable with 2 totally separate bands to allow easier sharing of specialist resources

[Northern Eel]

3 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

because any numerate person with education knowledge can teach yr7 maths, any literate person (not me) with education knowledge can teach yr7 english.

As I say, I don't agree, but that's not a problem.

 

3 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

 But I don't believe even the best teacher can teach GCSE English literature Macbeth or Cover a case study of a major UK city analysing the human challenges created by Urban change for GCSE Geography without subject knowledge and a passion for that subject.

 

You know both of these things are covered in the Primary Curriculum, don't you? I get that it is at a different level, but it still has to be adapted for the age and ability of the child. That takes incredible skill and subject knowledge. 

3 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

If there are teachers who can feign passion for a subject that leaves them cold then great brilliant and I would think they are the most valuable members of your staff. 

Yep, agreed. They are there in Primary schools, and some of them are Teaching Assistants at my school. It is an expectation that they ARE like this though. It shouldn't be something that is desirable, but essential. I've turned round enough terrible schools to know how to deal with those types.

3 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

My old school facebook page is currently full of news of a maths teacher from when i was at school who has just died - he always took yr9 set 3 maths, set 1 & 2 took OLevel Maths a year early, a bunch of the comments are people saying he took them aside and gave them 1 to 1 attention where he could see that just needed something to click and it suddenly fell into place and they were upped to set 2 at the end of the year and took their OLevel a year early (mainly getting B's & C's) which allowed them to concentrate on other subjects the next year. That is the kind of teacher I really admire - i could manage to explain the yr9 maths syllabus but i doubt i could recognise and coach those pupils needing the extra nudge

Was that because he was a great maths teacher, or a great educator? I find it impossible to agree that anyone who understands maths can teach Y7 maths, yet it is in some way more difficult to do than Y4, for example.  

But, disagreement apart, it's what these boards are all about and I responded to your invite as a teacher/headteacher to contribute to this particular question. 

[Northern Eel]

3 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

Thanks

 

That is sort what I expected give or take and why I guess you can't just magic up the extra staff needed to teach yr 9 upwards even if suitable buildings could be found to accommodate them

You are rightly pointing out the ideal scenarios, but we haven't had that luxury to do that for 3 months now, nor will we likely have it in the coming months. If it is a choice of my child having some sort of face-to-face tuition in school with a non-specialist, or a good quality Teaching Assistant/Non-specialist teacher under their direction, versus a remote learning opportunity, I would [pick the first one every day of the week. How about you?

[SSoutherner]

On 14/06/2020 at 14:35, Northern Eel said:

You are rightly pointing out the ideal scenarios, but we haven't had that luxury to do that for 3 months now, nor will we likely have it in the coming months. If it is a choice of my child having some sort of face-to-face tuition in school with a non-specialist, or a good quality Teaching Assistant/Non-specialist teacher under their direction, versus a remote learning opportunity, I would [pick the first one every day of the week. How about you?

Honest anser

 

Depends on which child - for the one now at Uni, he would have thrived with remote as he had the social skills of a potato, the yr13 really misses face to face (apart from the physics teacher), the yr9 sits in the middle, some subjects better face to face (the ones needing more interaction and discussion like science and english literature, the others like maths she would happily do remote plus 1 to 1 discussion

[Wolford6]

New nickname for the NUT Union ... "Tetrapak".

No bottle required.

 

 

[Northern Eel]

1 hour ago, SSoutherner said:

Honest anser

 

Depends on which child - for the one now at Uni, he would have thrived with remote as he had the social skills of a potato, the yr13 really misses face to face (apart from the physics teacher), the yr9 sits in the middle, some subjects better face to face (the ones needing more interaction and discussion like science and english literature, the others like maths she would happily do remote plus 1 to 1 discussion

Totally understand. That's why this 'blended learning' business is going to be so important. We have to mix it up for all kids so that it is right for them as often as possible.

[graveyard johnny]

from what I see on uk quiz shows when the contestant says they are a teacher I fear the worst-modern teachers seem as dim as 1 watt lightbulb and could prob learn more from the kids

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

 

[shrek]

My two went back to school this week, Year 3 and Year 6.

Can't praise the school enough, been amazing, at the beginning we had teething problems and frustrations, but got there in the end with home schooling.

The run up to re-opening was fluid, but loads of communication from the school, initially should have been a 15th June opening, then pushed back to the 22nd, then brought back to the 15th with a few days notice.

Re-opening has been smooth and well organised, kids seem to have enjoyed it.  Plenty seem keen to point the blame at unions and teachers, in my daughters Year 6 class of 30, only 18 came in Monday, 2 have subsequently dropped out not liking there bubble and seeing mates have not come back in.  Parents seem more of an issue anecdotally at our kids school.

The youngest in Year 3 has an EHCP, so in theory could have been in throughout, but we've worked with school to ensure that he wasn't a burden in a small primary school, plus at home he could be taught during lock down with two of us here, rather than "managed" in a mixed age group at school.  But they told us this week he could come back in with his normal teaching assistant ready to get back to it.  But they've been amazing with him throughout, gone way beyond just setting work for him, had all sorts of videos, facetime and quizzes to keep his spirits up.

Bit of a ramble, sorry, got a new found respect for teachers based on our experiences throughout this.

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

The point you make on parents is key. 

l’m sure every member of the profession would be very proud to read your last line.

[SSoutherner]

On 17/06/2020 at 19:54, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

The point you make on parents is key. 

l’m sure every member of the profession would be very proud to read your last line.

yes just try reading a parents facebook group - i have banned myself from posting ANYTHING on there other than when asked direct fact based questions like "does anyone have any spare ALevel revision guides going spare|" - anything more than that get's controversial (actually the last request for revision guides turned into a flame war on whether the current gcse marking situation is "good" or not

 

I am sure most schools have a similar issue

[Maximus Decimus]

On 13/06/2020 at 16:44, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The local community may be but conditions and pay are set on a bigger scale 

I'll go back to it... 72% cannot make it into work -, I'm sure some is genuine but not 72%

In my school, about 4/5 are shielding out of a total staff (teaching and non-teaching) of around 45.

People will believe what they want to believe. The strange thing is that teachers are human. So you are going to get a wide range of views. The exact same if it was accountants, doctors, postal workers etc.

The media and the public will therefore choose how they want to perceive teachers. If they want to think of them negatively they will and they'll find those voices to justify it. 

[Maximus Decimus]

On 13/06/2020 at 11:11, SSoutherner said:

Keeping politics out of it so as a pure intellectual exercise with no reference to what has gone before

 

Can the teachers on here give us their professional opinion on how state schools can be reopened so currently expected social distancing rules can be maintained  - how much "facetime" can a child expect each week with a qualified teacher based on standard staffing levels in a school  ?

Sorry to ask but i hear so many people theorising (myself included) but none of them/us are teachers and so don't have the basics to actually make sensible informed assumptions

Social distancing between children is largely out of the window. It is more a goal than a concrete thing.

Facetime is not teaching, it's lecturing. They are two very different things. 

I teach primary and with the current class sizes of 10 for EYFS, Y1 and Y6 that leaves few teachers not actually teaching.

[Maximus Decimus]

What often is ignored in this situation is liability. My wife works in a secondary school, and according to her the trust are terrified of the prospect that they reopen, a staff member catches it and dies and then they are found liable because the school hadn't done enough to prevent the spread. 

[Maximus Decimus]

On 17/06/2020 at 18:10, graveyard johnny said:

from what I see on uk quiz shows when the contestant says they are a teacher I fear the worst-modern teachers seem as dim as 1 watt lightbulb and could prob learn more from the kids

Thanks for this.

My ironymeter has now burst to the point I can no longer understand irony. 

[SSoutherner]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Thanks for this.

My ironymeter has now burst to the point I can no longer understand irony. 

i would say whilst the VAST majority of teachers are very good there are a small subset of teachers a lot of whom appear to be in physics/maths/CS who went down the PGCE route chasing the govt bursary's that were available a few years back when there were fewer jobs in that sector and it really was a case of those who do do and those who can't teach. Unfortunately that area of expertise tends to attract people with good intelligence but poor wisdom/common sense/emotional intelligence. Not necessarily the best people to become teachers BUT given the shortage of STEM teachers it appears at least in my part of the ocuntry they are pretty bulletproof once in post

To add to this by colleague in recruitment recently (Jan) took a guy who was a qualified electronics engineer working as a TA in a secondary school in their physics dept he was on a fixed term contract for just the school year paying mid 20k's full time equivalent and put him into a local electronics company working in their R&D department on prototypes on £34k - unless they have a real desire to teach why would a good electronics person work in a school dealing with teenagers who will not all be wanting to learn

[henage]

6 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

What often is ignored in this situation is liability. My wife works in a secondary school, and according to her the trust are terrified of the prospect that they reopen, a staff member catches it and dies and then they are found liable because the school hadn't done enough to prevent the spread. 

Will be fun watching the legal profession dismantle people's lives for not filling in the paperwork correctly . Not ticking the right boxes . 

  

[graveyard johnny]

why are they not scrapping the 6 week holidays after so much time off? don't tell me the "teachers" haven't used their holiday entitlement? please don't say that- please

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

why are they not scrapping the 6 week holidays after so much time off? don't tell me the "teachers" haven't used their holiday entitlement? please don't say that- please

Translation: I know absolutely nothing about what I'm talking about.