Michael Carter / Wakefield

[RigbyLuger]

Would Wakefield fans rather the money was spent on long-term things like staff to build the club, or the likes of David Fifita, who they can idolise because he's daft but has hardly played it seems?

[Wholly Trinity]

47 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Would Wakefield fans rather the money was spent on long-term things like staff to build the club, or the likes of David Fifita, who they can idolise because he's daft but has hardly played it seems?

87 games in 3.5 seasons? not bad for a prop - 25 games a season.

Also not a big money signing, came over for family reasons, signed a one-year contract and stayed because it suits his character & style. Has recently stated that he wants to play out his career here after the club helped him & his family through some difficult times. Turns 31 the day after tomorrow, at least 3 or 4 good seasons ahead.

[dkw]

2 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

87 games in 3.5 seasons? not bad for a prop - 25 games a season.

Also not a big money signing, came over for family reasons, signed a one-year contract and stayed because it suits his character & style. Has recently stated that he wants to play out his career here after the club helped him & his family through some difficult times. Turns 31 the day after tomorrow, at least 3 or 4 good seasons ahead.

Yeah but apart from all that stuff where he was completely and utterly wrong, hes bang on.....

[OMEGA]

Loves his name in the papers does Mike!

He’ll be volunteering to consult with the RFL on the implications of ‘Black Lives Matter’ on Rugby League next!

As for Trinity, 1st Team squad members being on less than minimum wage is the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

[Ullman]

15 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Hull FC seem keen to get possession of their part of the loan.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-boss-adam-pearson-we-need-government-loan-now-2894895

“Albert and Ratu I envisage as being our only departures."

Thanks for the link, good news.

[Forever Trinity]

18 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

https://www.totalrl.com/wakefield-winger-becomes-hermes-driver-and-may-leave-for-rugby-union-to-make-a-living/

Some players at Wakefield are struggling to make minimum wage, apparently.

And the reply from MC on the Wakey board

 Let me say straight out that he is nowhere near minimum wage and I wish I had earned what he does at 21

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, Forever Trinity said:

 Let me say straight out that he is nowhere near minimum wage and I wish I had earned what he does at 21

I think that's a poor response. The "you'll get what you'll get and be thankful for it" attitude might have been appropriate in the days of the dark setanic mills, but not in 2020 and even less so in professional sport. 

I don't know MC's background but I imagine that at 21, he would have either still been in education or at the start of what would be a long career with relatively few risks to his earning potential.

Sporting careers don't follow a linear earnings trajectory that most of us follow, rising as we earn more experience - they bell curve. Lee Kershaw has, if he is very lucky, 10-15 years maximum to make a living out of playing professional sport and I don't think that anyone should blame him for wanting to climb that bell curve, and stay at the top of it, as quickly as he can. 

[RigbyLuger]

I'm sure he'll have club after club in Super League lining up to pay him then, and it's just Wakefield being a modern day workhouse for players.

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

I'm sure he'll have club after club in Super League lining up to pay him then, and it's just Wakefield being a modern day workhouse for players.

He's a player who clearly has an idea of his worth that differs from the one Wakefield have. That's not exactly an uncommon dynamic in any employment environment. Sometimes for players it works and sometimes it doesn't (Ryan Hampshire found that out). 

Kershaw's situation is clearly hampered by the £40k development fee that Wakefield are owed should he leave - particularly in the current environment. Carter knows that the £40k makes it harder for Kershaw to freely test the market and it may well result in us losing a talent from the game.

However, my issue is not with Wakefield having a different idea of Kershaw's worth and as I said, employers and employees differ on that subject in every single workplace, but it's Carter's tone on this issue that I find unsavoury.

Aside from him making an irrelevant point about what he was earning at 21 (also ignoring that "what he was earning at 21" was 30 years ago), the whole "we won't forget those who didn't take pay cuts" does say something, to me at least, about how he views his employees. With that (quite sinister) comment, he gives absolutely no sense of empathy as to what could be perfectly justified reasons behind the decisions of those respective players. 

[OMEGA]

Didn’t Carter work for his dad’s company before inheriting a small fortune from his dad? If that’s the case, and I’ll stand being corrected, then Carter hasn’t HAD to work a day in his life and wouldn’t have a clue what a 21 year old without his advantages goes through.

Even if his dad made him work for a wage, he will have always known he had a safety net beneath him. That’s very different from a young lad from a modest background trying to earn a living.

Poor attitude from Mike Carter

[paulwalker71]

3 hours ago, Forever Trinity said:

 Let me say straight out that he is nowhere near minimum wage and I wish I had earned what he does at 21

Except salaries were considerably less when he was 21

It's like me saying because my first wage packet at 16 years old was £18.50 per week, then its OK to pay someone £18.50 per week to play in Super League

[Dave T]

To be fair, if he is on more than the article states, then Carter is right to be aggrieved. 

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

16 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

Didn’t Carter work for his dad’s company before inheriting a small fortune from his dad? If that’s the case, and I’ll stand being corrected, then Carter hasn’t HAD to work a day in his life and wouldn’t have a clue what a 21 year old without his advantages goes through.

Even if his dad made him work for a wage, he will have always known he had a safety net beneath him. That’s very different from a young lad from a modest background trying to earn a living.

Poor attitude from Mike Carter

Well he certainly has had to graft since he took control of our great club and I’m great full for the excellent work he has done.

Up the Trin 

[RigbyLuger]

A player who has played 6 Super League games, and been on loan at Oldham?

If Wakefield are wrong, Kershaw will get a better deal than he was offered in union or elsewhere?

If he's finding it hard to put "food on the table" shouldn't his agent and union advise him better?

As a sport, are clubs expected to throw money at every single player, regardless of their value to the squad?

I think the player has been badly advised in going to the press (and those who dislike Carter will do so regardless.)

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There is a good chance both are right. 

Kershaw is probably earning more per hour than the minimum wage, but if his wage is averaged out over full time hours its less than minimum wage. 

Though he almost certainly isnt on an hourly rate so its a bit of a pointless argument. 

Whats undoubted is that he isnt on a good wage and the level on entitlement Carter feels in expecting players who dont have much, to sacrifice so he can keep his hobby business afloat is, frankly, a little disgusting. 

But we don't have to make up a number of hours. Just use his contracted hours. 

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I would be surprised if there were contracted hours. Seems a hard thing to define

Wouldn't there be something as an expectation? Never thought about it before, and I know travel etc makes it difficult but without contracted hrs surely that is open to abuse?

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

There is a good chance both are right. 

Kershaw is probably earning more per hour than the minimum wage, but if his wage is averaged out over full time hours its less than minimum wage. 

Though he almost certainly isnt on an hourly rate so its a bit of a pointless argument. 

Whats undoubted is that he isnt on a good wage and the level on entitlement Carter feels in expecting players who dont have much, to sacrifice so he can keep his hobby business afloat is, frankly, a little disgusting. 

It's not that hard to do the maths

The article on this website states that if his wage was averaged out over a 36 hour working week it would be less than the minimum wage of £8.20 per hour. If he was earning exactly that amount his annual salary would be £15,350.  

Therefore, assuming he is speaking the truth, then his wage is something around £15K, possibly less than that.

It doesn't seem a huge wage for someone with SL experience. To be asked to take a wage cut from that level of salary does seem a bit much, to be honest...

[Clogiron]

As I have said before RL is a part-time sport trying to pretend it's something much bigger. Because a handful of club's think they have the wherewithal to be full-time ( I won't say fully professional) the rest seem to be hell bent on bankrupting themselves to prove they are just as big as their neighbours.  I hoped that the current situation might have seen a reassessment of where the game stands and how it can move forward, I should have known better. I am not talking the game down just being realistic, something that has never been the game or it's follower's strong point.

The problem with reality is it's just so damm boring compared to dream's.

[Scubby]

Carter's Wakefield model of pocketing £1.9m in central funding, paying out just over half in wages and keeping his fingers crossed that Hull, Cas, Leeds, Wigan and Saints will bring away fans is hardly robust to a crisis.

 

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

4 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

I think the player has been badly advised in going to the press (and those who dislike Carter will do so regardless.)

Same old faces though so take it with a pinch of salt.  

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Clogiron said:

As I have said before RL is a part-time sport trying to pretend it's something much bigger. Because a handful of club's think they have the wherewithal to be full-time ( I won't say fully professional) the rest seem to be hell bent on bankrupting themselves to prove they are just as big as their neighbours.

All SL clubs have enough money to maintain full time squads; they're not awash with surplus cash but let's not pretend for some reason that we're less than we are.

[Wholly Trinity]

6 hours ago, Scubby said:

Carter's Wakefield model of pocketing £1.9m in central funding, paying out just over half in wages and keeping his fingers crossed that Hull, Cas, Leeds, Wigan and Saints will bring away fans is hardly robust to a crisis.

 

Mmmm... are you sure about that? Can you expand on your figures?

(I was under the impression that the central funding was reduced because of the stadium issues.)

Even if you're correct, Wakefield currently have 34 contracted players. £950k / 34 = £28k average wage per player?

Does that sound about right to you?

even with the 7 youth players on "£15k" that leaves £845k / 27 = £31k average...

Maybe I've missed something? Looking forward to seeing your figures.

[Scubby]

7 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Mmmm... are you sure about that? Can you expand on your figures?

(I was under the impression that the central funding was reduced because of the stadium issues.)

Even if you're correct, Wakefield currently have 34 contracted players. £950k / 34 = £28k average wage per player?

Does that sound about right to you?

even with the 7 youth players on "£15k" that leaves £845k / 27 = £31k average...

Maybe I've missed something? Looking forward to seeing your figures.

I said that is his model in a nutshell. It is currently going a bit #### up because SL are punishing Wakefield for not investing in facilities. If he is spending £1m or £1.4m it really doesn't matter. Like it or not, Wakefield are just Oldham, York, Batley or Rochdale with SL central funding. 

I was born in Wakefield I have no axe to grind. The stadium looks little different from the one I played schools finals on over 30 years ago. The changing room facilities were #### then too.

[Wholly Trinity]

How is it going mammaries skywards?

The club are in the best position they've been in in my living memory.

Previous incarnations were always built on the sand of hopes, dreams and promises. Now, at last there's solid foundations of a professional sports club.

How long that can be sustained without non-matchday income is the question, but we're going along for the ride. 

Who do you propose replaces them?

[OMEGA]

Mike Carter getting a bit vexed on the other forum because he’s had a little bit of scrutiny.

Some people are questioning whether it’s sunlight shining out of his backside or just the back door security light which he’s setting off himself by regularly jumping up & down in front of it.

He’s worried the facade might be slipping