Championship clubs still in deadlock

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its still on the cards because its not a decision Super League can make unilaterally. They have to wait until the Championship decides to resume or void to make an appropriate decision.

I believe that relegation from SL is for the clubs to decide unilaterally if they so wish - they would simply expand the size of their competition. The question is whether they are permitted to block promotion this season; the two are not intrinsically combined.

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

But honestly Hela, if some teams do not want to take the field in the Championship why should it hold back those who do? 

But they wouldn't automatically qualify for promotion in that case.

We have been through this before, even if you didn't like the conclusion.

[wiganermike]

1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said:

I believe that relegation from SL is for the clubs to decide unilaterally if they so wish - they would simly expand the size of their competition. The question is whether they are permitted to block promotion this season; the two are not intrinsically combined.

I think that may be why no announcement has been made regarding relegation from SL yet. I suspect that with less money from Sky next year the SL clubs will not want any more clubs in SL than 12. If they announce that no team will be relegated and the Championship then decides to carry on with promotion given the green light then SL gets stuck with a 13th club it didn't want in 2021. I suspect we won't get a statement on relegation from SL before the issue of potential promotion from the Championship is settled.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Correct Paul , I do however have the utmost sympathy for the people in the championship who have invested heavily 

Of whom only one would have been rewarded. Might the toys have gone out of the pram again if it was the wrong one?

[Blind side johnny]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You mentioned a vote of the Championship clubs if they are to resume or cancel the season, I will stick my neck out and say that the vote will be to cancel the season, that being the case those clubs who do not want to resume playing are governing those who do, is that the way it should be, if they don't want to play what right have they to dictate to others who have speculated to gain promotion? 

No honestly, I don't see the point of carrying on for anything other than promotion to compete for some tin pot, if a comp is going to take place to eventuate a winner it may as well be a grand final - as per SL - and promote the winners.

And you just had a moan about Remainers. How does this position differ? Lose the vote but refuse to accept the result.

Your double standards are showing Harry.

[Blind side johnny]

7 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

I think that may be why no announcement has been made regarding relegation from SL yet. I suspect that with less money from Sky next year the SL clubs will not want any more clubs in SL than 12. If they announce that no team will be relegated and the Championship then decides to carry on with promotion given the green light then SL gets stuck with a 13th club it didn't want in 2021. I suspect we won't get a statement on relegation from SL before the issue of potential promotion from the Championship is settled.

And remember, if there is no relegation then there will be no parachute payment.

Kerching!

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Sky’s coverage of the RU championship is derisory.

It maybe only 11 matches a year but IT EXISTS

P 

[Gooleboy]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats the thing though. The Championship, and the clubs in it, have no interest in creating a good comp. There is simply an obsession with getting out of it. 

Promotion is the be all and end all of the championship and its strangling it. 

It is for some of us.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

37 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think a vote now would be very close, too close to risk if you wanted to carry on. That's the nature of playing in a league though.

I'm just proffering the idea to have a few games come the end of the year just to wet the appetite till next season. 

Not sure it'd be that close; 8-4 against a Championship restart I'd imagine.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Whether the Championship resumes is entirely predicated on whether there is promotion to SL. Otherwise, what's the point?

Not for me it isnt

I love rugby league. I particularly love watching London live

If there is no promotion I'll live with that to get some games in. A title/trophy at the end will be a bonus

[Steve Slater]

According to the latest release about Super League returning in August, it is anticipated that crowds will be allowed back in September.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53196901?fbclid=IwAR15EFRBYJd6Kcww05XvW-GaEN2l9jlaZyVvL8jmW7gVtnlLhi_CtN4kJMg

Most Championship clubs would be able to fit everyone in, even with social distancing, and testing costs might be lower by then, especially if the saliva test being trialled in Southampton proves successful? Players wouldn't have to come off furlough altogether  for pre-season training, it would be just like going in to work a few hours a week, so they could go part-time furlough.

These two major enablers might never happen, but it would be letting the rugby starved fans down to call everything off without waiting to see whether the lockdown ease doesn't have repercussions? Some clubs, however, just want to squeeze every last penny out of the tax payer via the furlough scheme while not giving anything back to the sponsors and season ticket holders..

If we get a second wave this coming winter it could even wreck hopes for 2021, so why not get some rugby in while we can?

[HarrogateKnights]

Some of us were discussing this earlier. If super league guarantees no relegation presumably that means no promotion. Vast majority of championship clubs are part time and depend on gate receipts. 

On this season personally I don't think people realise how difficult it would be to get both leagues operating. Over 300 players and staff many that have to work as well as play need testing.

A few options but looking at restarting the season but when: we could postpone this season and start again from 23rd March 2021 same fixtures as 2020, same results and table etc. Another option is to scrap the season altogether and 3rd start in August risking a 2nd spike and some clubs being funded from somewhere due to costs of testing. 

[HarrogateKnights]

3 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

HOLD ON GUYS 

 

SKY have covered the Rugby Union championship for the last 3/4 years (11 matches a year) and are quite happy to continue with it (Average 20/30000 viewers) Attendances less than ours.

Right now 

LEIGH

BRADFORD

WIDNES

FEATHERSTONE

LONDON

TOULOUSE

YORK 

Add NEWCASTLE and other clubs thats a pretty solid basis for a good comp (Apologies to clubs not listed) 

It is what it is STOP KNOCKING IT:)

 

Paul

 

 

 

Rather than Sky I would like the Championship to do something different not Ourleague as that's preaching to the converted but get a RFL Amazon Prime channel, with streaming and recordings 

[Wolford6]

Suppose  the Bulls have 2000 season ticket holders plus regular attenders ... fetching in around £500,000 per annum with shirt sales etc. They could end the season now with their players   having been paid by the Government for the past three months and this could possibly continue till lockdown is over.

If the season ends now, they could  release some players without having to pay out win bonuses etc on top of the guaranteed contract value.

Nigel Wood is an accountant by trade.

[Wolford6]

6 hours ago, SL17 said:

What would the purpose of releasing players serve?

Only the ones who weren't wanted for next season.

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Any vote would only be won by a majority, meaning that most did not support the losing proposition. The outcome of any vote will have some people that didn't vote that way be unhappy about it. Not only in sport as we all know.

The majority of clubs in the Championship have no hope of promotion, some have a real threat of relegation. Given the lack of crowds most would risk their solvency by playing. I understand your passion for your club but for most in the Championship choosing to put at severe risk their status in the Championship and more likely the survival of their club for the sake of allowing 3 or 4 clubs at the top end to battle it out for 1 place in SL is not an option they can take. The knowledge that Leigh/Fev/London/Toulouse will get trips to Headingley and the HJ in 2021 is hardly going to be of comfort to those connected with Swinton, Oldham, Batley, Dewsbury et al. as the ashes of their club are picked over and they walk away from the sport forever.

If the majority of clubs in the Championship consider that to resume the season would be more damaging than not doing so and vote to end the season rather than resume then that is the will of the majority and Leigh/Fev or anyone else who voted otherwise need to accept that and move on. Same goes for Newcastle in League 1. It would be unfortunate for the investors that had shelled out for promotion but better that than we force lots of clubs to go bust so that 1 man hasn't wasted his money.

It's harsh that it seems likely that Derek Beaumont, David Hughes and co have laid out money for nothing ultimately but one more year in the second tier for the one club that would have gone up under normal circumstances weighed against the continued existence of 10+ clubs is a smaller price to pay.

Yes thanks for the reply Mike, I understand all of that, and you have echoed my thoughts that the race for promotion will be competed for by only a handful full of clubs and that is said with no disrespect to others.

My thoughts are those who don't want to play on for nothing more than financial reasons should be allowed to excersize that prerogertive and stay 'fallow' for the rest of this season, and those still wishing to compete for promotion should be allowed to do so. What is the harm in that all parties get what they desire as you say Swinton, Oldham, Batley and Dewsbury would not be challenging for promotion under normal circumstances, yes it would be a shortened league format but all the 'stars of the show' would be performing the rest of the cast would be on a self decided holiday.

You intimate that it would not be fair to make those clubs play on who do not wish to do so for fear of demise, yes I get that, but is it right that the vote would have to be a decisive majority verdict, I say let them choose what they want to do, either play or don't play.

 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Of whom only one would have been rewarded. Might the toys have gone out of the pram again if it was the wrong one?

If the whole season had not been interrupted only one would still have been rewarded that's not rocket science Johnny, and good luck to whoever gained promotion.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

And you just had a moan about Remainers. How does this position differ? Lose the vote but refuse to accept the result.

Your double standards are showing Harry.

It wasn't a moan about remainers it was a quip. I had nothing to moan about - twice in effect.

But we knew that was to be a majority wins vote, my argument with this is that it should be a personal preference alternative to either close the doors for the rest of the season or play on, every one gets what they want.

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Ah well.

You was one in mind when I said "some people will be happy"

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes thanks for the reply Mike, I understand all of that, and you have echoed my thoughts that the race for promotion will be competed for by only a handful full of clubs and that is said with no disrespect to others.

My thoughts are those who don't want to play on for nothing more than financial reasons should be allowed to excersize that prerogertive and stay 'fallow' for the rest of this season, and those still wishing to compete for promotion should be allowed to do so. What is the harm in that all parties get what they desire as you say Swinton, Oldham, Batley and Dewsbury would not be challenging for promotion under normal circumstances, yes it would be a shortened league format but all the 'stars of the show' would be performing the rest of the cast would be on a self decided holiday.

You intimate that it would not be fair to make those clubs play on who do not wish to do so for fear of demise, yes I get that, but is it right that the vote would have to be a decisive majority verdict, I say let them choose what they want to do, either play or don't play.

 

Thing is, Leigh (and whichever other clubs you're grouping with them) aren't a special subset. They are a club in the Championship and they have to be bound by the decision of the majority of other Championship clubs. They don't get to decide, midseason, that they actually want to play in an entirely new division invented solely for the purpose of getting one in, maybe, five teams a shot at promotion. Unless that is, the other clubs and the RFL agree and vote for them to have it.

Maybe tell the RFL that they'll be a Million Pound Game at the end of it. They love a bit of jeopardy at the RFL.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Thing is, Leigh (and whichever other clubs you're grouping with them) aren't a special subset. They are a club in the Championship and they have to be bound by the decision of the majority of other Championship clubs. They don't get to decide, midseason, that they actually want to play in an entirely new division invented solely for the purpose of getting one in, maybe, five teams a shot at promotion. Unless that is, the other clubs and the RFL agree and vote for them to have it.

Maybe tell the RFL that they'll be a Million Pound Game at the end of it. They love a bit of jeopardy at the RFL.

Thanks for that Ginge, not one person has said yet what harm it would do letting each Championship club decide what their own personal circumstances dictate they do, if they don't want to play on they don't they achieve their desire of what they want to do with no penalties against them, if on the other hand some clubs wish to carry on for what would be something meaningful for one of them - promotion - then that is not affecting those other clubs who wish to sit it out at all, is it?

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not happy Harry. Just not that bothered if some bitter old men cut their nose off to spite their face because they can't hold the game to ransom. 

Old men, like I have said I have reached this age, you have yet to accomplish it, which I am of no doubt you wouldn't do if you spouted out in public as you do in the annonimity of hiding behind your keyboard.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks for that Ginge, not one person has said yet what harm it would do letting each Championship club decide what their own personal circumstances dictate they do, if they don't want to play on they don't they achieve their desire of what they want to do with no penalties against them, if on the other hand some clubs wish to carry on for what would be something meaningful for one of them - promotion - then that is not affecting those other clubs who wish to sit it out at all, is it?

Sorry, mate, it's a group and you're bound by the decisions of the whole.

Supposing, at the most extreme example of your brilliant and unbiased thinking, only Leigh votes to resume. Do we reinstate a 1 team league in which Leigh win each win by walkover and at the end of it they get promotion?

A 2 team league would be a bit Scilly. Three and you have a bye week a few times a month. Four and ...

So, you'd have to wait for the vote. Then each team that wanted to restart would need the RFL to sanction a new season of games, draw up a new fixture list, assign a revised salary cap, draw up rules regarding players under contract to teams who can't afford them but who may be of interest to the clubs restarting, come up with new competition rules ensuring the play off final definitely takes place at the neutral venue of the LSV ...

You're right. Once Leigh vote to restart there are no implications for anyone else at all.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Sorry, mate, it's a group and you're bound by the decisions of the whole.

Supposing, at the most extreme example of your brilliant and unbiased thinking, only Leigh votes to resume. Do we reinstate a 1 team league in which Leigh win each win by walkover and at the end of it they get promotion?

A 2 team league would be a bit Scilly. Three and you have a bye week a few times a month. Four and ...

So, you'd have to wait for the vote. Then each team that wanted to restart would need the RFL to sanction a new season of games, draw up a new fixture list, assign a revised salary cap, draw up rules regarding players under contract to teams who can't afford them but who may be of interest to the clubs restarting, come up with new competition rules ensuring the play off final definitely takes place at the neutral venue of the LSV ...

You're right. Once Leigh vote to restart there are no implications for anyone else at all.

The fixture lists are already in place, they only require revising, a little like SL dropping the loopy fixtures or has that passed you by, SL have already scheduled the GF to accommodate contract situations, no doubt under a shortened league format of the Championship clubs who would wish to take part completing the season before the contract deadline would be easily accomplished, and why alter the salary cap, good try Ginge but no cigar!

Please tell me in a situation that appeases all Championship clubs of either play or don't play as would happen with a choice make up your own mind vote, why are you so against it?

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Please tell me in a situation that appeases all Championship clubs of either play or don't play as would happen with a choice make up your own mind vote, why are you so against it?

Why am I trying to appease them all? That's right, I'm not. And nor should the RFL.

If the majority vote to restart then we restart. If the majority vote not to restart then we don't.

And you did manage to avoid saying what the magic number in your fantasy is? If only Leigh vote to restart do they finish top of the competition and get promotion?