Harry Stottle Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, wiganermike said: No. In all divisions the clubs can advise the RFL as to what they want to happen but the clubs do not make the decision, the RFL Board do. Do you honestly believe that if the SL clubs could unilaterally cancel relegation that they wouldn't have done so (thus securing TWP's share of the Sky money for themselves for another year). Such decisions as they affect different divisions at the same time have to be made by the governing body and not the clubs. The SL clubs can't tell the Championship clubs that they can't be promoted only the governing body could make such a decision. Read any statement from the RFL concerning the issue. We are just going round in circles with this and I suggest for the sake of everyone else reading this that we leave this particular loop where it is. Hence why all will be revealed by the RFL on the 23rd July, I am still hanging by my finger tips that Mr Rimmer is an advocate of P&R, but again these are not normal circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 15 hours ago, Griff said: So £35,714.29 each ? And that's if just the Division 2 clubs played and Division 3 didn't. Would that be enough to coax two thirds of the clubs onto the field ? Logically, your Leighs, Fevs and Toulouses should get nothing as they'd have the most to gain from restarting the league. Why is that then? The Leighs, Fevs and Toulouses would be the clubs taking the hit if there was no promotion. Logically they're the ones who should get the biggest share because they've paid for a squad capable of challenging for the play-offs at least, and they're the ones who needed the bigger crowds that challenging for honours brings. A fairer system would be a big cash prize for the winners, followed by a sliding scale from runners-up down to the bottom placed club, with the rest getting nothing if they choose not to resume. That way it would bring a competitive element to the competition. The best solution would be a 13 game season, keeping the existing results and playing the remaining 8 or 9 fixtures from the first half of the season with a Top 4 play-off at the end, venue and date of the GF to be decided later to allow for a second spike and ensuring the stadium is big enough to cater for any social distancing measures that may be in place.. The leagues could hopefully be finished by the end of November, then if contract issues come into play we could dispense with the play-offs and crown the top club as champions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, SL17 said: That depends if the player is full/part-time! What does ? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Steve Slater said: Why is that then? The Leighs, Fevs and Toulouses would be the clubs taking the hit if there was no promotion. Logically they're the ones who should get the biggest share because they've paid for a squad capable of challenging for the play-offs at least, and they're the ones who needed the bigger crowds that challenging for honours brings. A fairer system would be a big cash prize for the winners, followed by a sliding scale from runners-up down to the bottom placed club, with the rest getting nothing if they choose not to resume. That way it would bring a competitive element to the competition. The best solution would be a 13 game season, keeping the existing results and playing the remaining 8 or 9 fixtures from the first half of the season with a Top 4 play-off at the end, venue and date of the GF to be decided later to allow for a second spike and ensuring the stadium is big enough to cater for any social distancing measures that may be in place.. The leagues could hopefully be finished by the end of November, then if contract issues come into play we could dispense with the play-offs and crown the top club as champions? Why should eleven clubs pay for three clubs' excesses ? They gambled, they lost. Two of them would've lost even if there's been no Covid-19. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Griff said: Why should eleven clubs pay for three clubs' excesses ? They gambled, they lost. Two of them would've lost even if there's been no Covid-19. Are we both talking about the parachute payment here? If any parachute payment was made it would be in lieue of no relegation from SL and no promotion from the Championship. If that was the case why shouldn't the champions get it all as a compensation payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Just now, SL17 said: You make every excuse in the book not to play. Some family this has turned in to. Again if you can’t afford to resume the season, how can you afford to resume in 2021? I dunno - is it that folk can come and pay to watch ? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, Steve Slater said: Are we both talking about the parachute payment here? If any parachute payment was made it would be in lieue of no relegation from SL and no promotion from the Championship. If that was the case why shouldn't the champions get it all as a compensation payment? I don't have any strong thoughts either way. None of my business really. I'm not being asked to finance a club. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 12 hours ago, wiganermike said: The clubs have said a variety of often directly conflicting things in regard of how to proceed. Hence no decision being made. The RFL Board will aim to meet the preferred options of the greatest possible number of clubs when making their decision. The input from the clubs certainly has an input on the process but the RFL Board will make the decision. It is the RFL Board who will decide if the campaign restarts and if it does whether or not P&R will be a part of it. The clear message, according to the RFL Board announcement, was that the large majority of clubs do not want to play behind closed doors. They indicated that any decisions would respect this. The real issue is the negotiation with SL about a payment to the RFL in lieu of the parachute payment that would have been payable if a club were relegated. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 32 minutes ago, Steve Slater said: The leagues could hopefully be finished by the end of November, then if contract issues come into play we could dispense with the play-offs and crown the top club as champions? With or without promtion Steve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 Just now, SL17 said: Given crowds may be allowed in October puts that to bed now. "May" is the appropriate word. If crowds, however limited, were being allowed from September then there would be plenty of scope to organise the necessary number of games. Allowing this from October, if it were to happen, leaves very little room for contingencies, the most obvious one being if any players test postive for Covid-19. Hence it does not "put this to bed" by any means, quite the opposite. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: With or without promtion Steve? Either Harry, providing the parachute payment was available if no promotion? A huge cash prize would be enough incentive, but personally I would prefer the winners to get deferred promotion to SL in 2022 if not on the cards for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I posed a number of "what if ?" questions ages ago on this thread. No answers so far. Those who propose a 2020 return to the field of play still assume everything will go smoothly. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Steve Slater said: Either Harry, providing the parachute payment was available if no promotion? A huge cash prize would be enough incentive, but personally I would prefer the winners to get deferred promotion to SL in 2022 if not on the cards for next year. Can't see that happening Steve, and what would you do with the 2021 winners of the Championship promote them also? Making a 14 team SL. Also if a team were to have a season in Lieu in the Championship awaiting their '22 promotion would they still be part of the League ladder if so they could still have a big say in promotion and relegation for the other teams, or would they not be awarded any winning points, effectively playing friendlies all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Griff said: I posed a number of "what if ?" questions ages ago on this thread. No answers so far. Those who propose a 2020 return to the field of play still assume everything will go smoothly. No off course not Griff, the 23rd March lockdown prevented everything going smoothly, but there is always the saying "make the most of the situation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: The clear message, according to the RFL Board announcement, was that the large majority of clubs do not want to play behind closed doors. They indicated that any decisions would respect this. The real issue is the negotiation with SL about a payment to the RFL in lieu of the parachute payment that would have been payable if a club were relegated. Yes I'm aware of all that and had mentioned the subject of your first paragraph in previous posts earlier in the thread. The post you quoted was me replying to a poster who was adamant that the clubs were making the decision directly. I was trying to explain to that poster that the RFL board will make the decision while trying to respect the preferred options of the majority of the 25 clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: No off course not Griff, the 23rd March lockdown prevented everything going smoothly, but there is always the saying "make the most of the situation" If we play, we play. Would I vote for playing ? No. I can't see an compelling argument for doing so before Christmas and we probably need to see how the virus situation progresses through the winter before we decide when to start in 2021. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 15 hours ago, POR said: but it's not down to the clubs they can only make proposals the buck stops with the RFL They will decide if and when the competitions start Surely it’s the other way round the RFL will make proposals and the clubs will vote on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Steve Slater said: A fairer system would be a big cash prize for the winners, followed by a sliding scale from runners-up down to the bottom placed club, with the rest getting nothing if they choose not to resume. That way it would bring a competitive element to the competition. I agree with that concept Steve, in fact I proposed something similar way up this thread. If the £500K was divvied up on something like a 50/30/10/10 scale as prize money for a competition, then all clubs could decide whether to enter accordingly It presents the likes of Leigh and Featherstone with a good chance to 'offset' their expenditure to the tune of £250K by winning that comp. Even getting to the Semis would give them 50K - better than a kick in the teeth. Let's be honest... if Leigh or Featherstone couldn't at least get to the Final of such a competition, then the chances of them getting promoted (or staying in SL next year) wouldn't amount to much. The likelihood would be that those two clubs would make the Final, meaning one would get £250K, the other £166K - IF they could prove their prowess ON THE FIELD (which is the place that the Leigh and Featherstone supporters keep reminding us that they want to do so) It would be interesting to see who else would enter said competition. Clubs like my own (Bulls), Halifax, London etc would possibly think it worth the gamble of at least getting to the Semi Finals and thus grabbing £50K. Clubs at the other end of the table, probably not worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, bobbruce said: Surely it’s the other way round the RFL will make proposals and the clubs will vote on them. In this case attempts at such an approach though not involving a formal vote were inconclusive (i.e there was no majority in favour of either restarting come what may or in favour of just cancelling the season) due to the differing aims and situations of the different clubs. Most clubs wanted to await the possibility of paying crowds before restarting and didn't want to scrap the season while there is still a hope of that happening. The RFL asked all 25 clubs at that stage (up until then they had been liaising with a small representative delegation acting on behalf of all the 25 clubs) for feedback on how each club individually wanted to proceed. This process once again resulted in no majority support other than for a 'wait until we can have paying crowds' approach or for showing a willingness to play a shortened competition, with crowds, if nothing else was possible to bring in some gate money. The RFL in attempting to meet those majority favoured approaches delayed the decision (IMO) to allow time for the hoped for developments in respect of crowds in stadiums to be announced and set the deadline of the 23rd July for their decision on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tms Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 46 minutes ago, bobbruce said: Surely it’s the other way round the RFL will make proposals and the clubs will vote on them. Not really Following a survey of the 25 Betfred Championship and League One clubs that was conducted after their meeting last month to assess their current views, the Board considered the issues surrounding the resumption of the Betfred Championship and League One seasons, the situation will be reviewed at the Board updates on the next two Mondays (July 13 and 20), with a decision to be made at the latest by July 23 – both on the resumption of the Championship and League One season, and on promotion and relegation between the competitions. that's a decision by the board not the clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, SL17 said: You seem concerned the season may resume. Probably because it would be unwise. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, SL17 said: You seem concerned the season may resume. You really don't like anyone disagreeing with you do you? Read my posts where I have said that I would dearly like games to begin as soon as safely possible in front of spectators, please. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, bobbruce said: Surely it’s the other way round the RFL will make proposals and the clubs will vote on them. It is an executive board granted the decision-making authority by the member clubs. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE RED ROOSTER Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: The disclosure promised on the 23rd re P&R is in my opinion critical, if it is to be abandoned for this season the clubs should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to play on or not, and that can be governed by their own fans reaction. Simply all clubs have websites, the question could be asked "Would when attendances are allowed will you attend if there is to be no P&R to play for?" Each club could evaluate the response and decide from there. Obviously season ticket holders have to be taken into consideration. Personally, I am not going to pay to watch a series of friendly fixtures. Agree with your first and final paragraphs. The problem with a vote on club websites is that it should be restricted to Season Ticket Holders only of those clubs. Otherwise you do run run the risk that those with an agenda could engage in a twitter style pile-on to get the yes or no outcome they desire. How you can restrict access to ST holders only, I leave to the more tech-savvy on here Quote When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so. George Orwell You either own NFTs or women’s phone numbers but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 hours ago, wiganermike said: Yes I'm aware of all that and had mentioned the subject of your first paragraph in previous posts earlier in the thread. The post you quoted was me replying to a poster who was adamant that the clubs were making the decision directly. I was trying to explain to that poster that the RFL board will make the decision while trying to respect the preferred options of the majority of the 25 clubs. No I said that the clubs control the decision as the RFL will not go against the clubs’ wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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