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Blind side johnny

Championship clubs still in deadlock

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11 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Any vote would only be won by a majority, meaning that most did not support the losing proposition. The outcome of any vote will have some people that didn't vote that way be unhappy about it. Not only in sport as we all know.

The majority of clubs in the Championship have no hope of promotion, some have a real threat of relegation. Given the lack of crowds most would risk their solvency by playing. I understand your passion for your club but for most in the Championship choosing to put at severe risk their status in the Championship and more likely the survival of their club for the sake of allowing 3 or 4 clubs at the top end to battle it out for 1 place in SL is not an option they can take. The knowledge that Leigh/Fev/London/Toulouse will get trips to Headingley and the HJ in 2021 is hardly going to be of comfort to those connected with Swinton, Oldham, Batley, Dewsbury et al. as the ashes of their club are picked over and they walk away from the sport forever.

If the majority of clubs in the Championship consider that to resume the season would be more damaging than not doing so and vote to end the season rather than resume then that is the will of the majority and Leigh/Fev or anyone else who voted otherwise need to accept that and move on. Same goes for Newcastle in League 1. It would be unfortunate for the investors that had shelled out for promotion but better that than we force lots of clubs to go bust so that 1 man hasn't wasted his money.

It's harsh that it seems likely that Derek Beaumont, David Hughes and co have laid out money for nothing ultimately but one more year in the second tier for the one club that would have gone up under normal circumstances weighed against the continued existence of 10+ clubs is a smaller price to pay.

Yes thanks for the reply Mike, I understand all of that, and you have echoed my thoughts that the race for promotion will be competed for by only a handful full of clubs and that is said with no disrespect to others.

My thoughts are those who don't want to play on for nothing more than financial reasons should be allowed to excersize that prerogertive and stay 'fallow' for the rest of this season, and those still wishing to compete for promotion should be allowed to do so. What is the harm in that all parties get what they desire as you say Swinton, Oldham, Batley and Dewsbury would not be challenging for promotion under normal circumstances, yes it would be a shortened league format but all the 'stars of the show' would be performing the rest of the cast would be on a self decided holiday.

You intimate that it would not be fair to make those clubs play on who do not wish to do so for fear of demise, yes I get that, but is it right that the vote would have to be a decisive majority verdict, I say let them choose what they want to do, either play or don't play.

 

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12 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Of whom only one would have been rewarded. Might the toys have gone out of the pram again if it was the wrong one?

If the whole season had not been interrupted only one would still have been rewarded that's not rocket science Johnny, and good luck to whoever gained promotion.

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12 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

And you just had a moan about Remainers. How does this position differ? Lose the vote but refuse to accept the result.

Your double standards are showing Harry.

It wasn't a moan about remainers it was a quip. I had nothing to moan about - twice in effect.

But we knew that was to be a majority wins vote, my argument with this is that it should be a personal preference alternative to either close the doors for the rest of the season or play on, every one gets what they want.

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10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes thanks for the reply Mike, I understand all of that, and you have echoed my thoughts that the race for promotion will be competed for by only a handful full of clubs and that is said with no disrespect to others.

My thoughts are those who don't want to play on for nothing more than financial reasons should be allowed to excersize that prerogertive and stay 'fallow' for the rest of this season, and those still wishing to compete for promotion should be allowed to do so. What is the harm in that all parties get what they desire as you say Swinton, Oldham, Batley and Dewsbury would not be challenging for promotion under normal circumstances, yes it would be a shortened league format but all the 'stars of the show' would be performing the rest of the cast would be on a self decided holiday.

You intimate that it would not be fair to make those clubs play on who do not wish to do so for fear of demise, yes I get that, but is it right that the vote would have to be a decisive majority verdict, I say let them choose what they want to do, either play or don't play.

 

Thing is, Leigh (and whichever other clubs you're grouping with them) aren't a special subset. They are a club in the Championship and they have to be bound by the decision of the majority of other Championship clubs. They don't get to decide, midseason, that they actually want to play in an entirely new division invented solely for the purpose of getting one in, maybe, five teams a shot at promotion. Unless that is, the other clubs and the RFL agree and vote for them to have it.

Maybe tell the RFL that they'll be a Million Pound Game at the end of it. They love a bit of jeopardy at the RFL.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Thing is, Leigh (and whichever other clubs you're grouping with them) aren't a special subset. They are a club in the Championship and they have to be bound by the decision of the majority of other Championship clubs. They don't get to decide, midseason, that they actually want to play in an entirely new division invented solely for the purpose of getting one in, maybe, five teams a shot at promotion. Unless that is, the other clubs and the RFL agree and vote for them to have it.

Maybe tell the RFL that they'll be a Million Pound Game at the end of it. They love a bit of jeopardy at the RFL.

Thanks for that Ginge, not one person has said yet what harm it would do letting each Championship club decide what their own personal circumstances dictate they do, if they don't want to play on they don't they achieve their desire of what they want to do with no penalties against them, if on the other hand some clubs wish to carry on for what would be something meaningful for one of them - promotion - then that is not affecting those other clubs who wish to sit it out at all, is it?

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not happy Harry. Just not that bothered if some bitter old men cut their nose off to spite their face because they can't hold the game to ransom. 

Old men, like I have said I have reached this age, you have yet to accomplish it, which I am of no doubt you wouldn't do if you spouted out in public as you do in the annonimity of hiding behind your keyboard.

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Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks for that Ginge, not one person has said yet what harm it would do letting each Championship club decide what their own personal circumstances dictate they do, if they don't want to play on they don't they achieve their desire of what they want to do with no penalties against them, if on the other hand some clubs wish to carry on for what would be something meaningful for one of them - promotion - then that is not affecting those other clubs who wish to sit it out at all, is it?

Sorry, mate, it's a group and you're bound by the decisions of the whole.

Supposing, at the most extreme example of your brilliant and unbiased thinking, only Leigh votes to resume. Do we reinstate a 1 team league in which Leigh win each win by walkover and at the end of it they get promotion?

A 2 team league would be a bit Scilly. Three and you have a bye week a few times a month. Four and ...

So, you'd have to wait for the vote. Then each team that wanted to restart would need the RFL to sanction a new season of games, draw up a new fixture list, assign a revised salary cap, draw up rules regarding players under contract to teams who can't afford them but who may be of interest to the clubs restarting, come up with new competition rules ensuring the play off final definitely takes place at the neutral venue of the LSV ...

You're right. Once Leigh vote to restart there are no implications for anyone else at all.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Sorry, mate, it's a group and you're bound by the decisions of the whole.

Supposing, at the most extreme example of your brilliant and unbiased thinking, only Leigh votes to resume. Do we reinstate a 1 team league in which Leigh win each win by walkover and at the end of it they get promotion?

A 2 team league would be a bit Scilly. Three and you have a bye week a few times a month. Four and ...

So, you'd have to wait for the vote. Then each team that wanted to restart would need the RFL to sanction a new season of games, draw up a new fixture list, assign a revised salary cap, draw up rules regarding players under contract to teams who can't afford them but who may be of interest to the clubs restarting, come up with new competition rules ensuring the play off final definitely takes place at the neutral venue of the LSV ...

You're right. Once Leigh vote to restart there are no implications for anyone else at all.

The fixture lists are already in place, they only require revising, a little like SL dropping the loopy fixtures or has that passed you by, SL have already scheduled the GF to accommodate contract situations, no doubt under a shortened league format of the Championship clubs who would wish to take part completing the season before the contract deadline would be easily accomplished, and why alter the salary cap, good try Ginge but no cigar!

Please tell me in a situation that appeases all Championship clubs of either play or don't play as would happen with a choice make up your own mind vote, why are you so against it?

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Please tell me in a situation that appeases all Championship clubs of either play or don't play as would happen with a choice make up your own mind vote, why are you so against it?

Why am I trying to appease them all? That's right, I'm not. And nor should the RFL.

If the majority vote to restart then we restart. If the majority vote not to restart then we don't.

And you did manage to avoid saying what the magic number in your fantasy is? If only Leigh vote to restart do they finish top of the competition and get promotion?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

This is the important part, the championship belongs to the clubs collectively, not individually. 

No definitive format had yet been set to take a vote of any kind, assumingly it is up to Mr Rimmer to either just tell the Championship clubs what he considers the appropriate action for the rest of the season, take a majority wins vote or let each club decide their own preference as to play on or not.

And don't go on about constitutions, these are extraordinary times and in extraordinary times extraordinary measures are taken, unless you can point me to the clause which states "What to do in the event of a pandemic"

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I would start the season in September with a break after Boxing day until March and then finish in and around May/June with promotion for season 2022. 

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14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why am I trying to appease them all? That's right, I'm not. And nor should the RFL.

If the majority vote to restart then we restart. If the majority vote not to restart then we don't.

And you did manage to avoid saying what the magic number in your fantasy is? If only Leigh vote to restart do they finish top of the competition and get promotion?

You know very well that not only Leigh would want to restart, c'mon Ginge you have more brains than making proposals such as that.

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Well i was talking ethically rather than practically. Practically, the championship belongs to the RFL and they can decide. 

The RFL board, not council, make the decision on P+R.

SL is slightly difference because it can keep all 12 currently in, in if it so wishes. 

So any vote by the championship is purely advisory and the power rests entirely with Rimmer and the board. 

Yes.

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17 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

I would start the season in September with a break after Boxing day until March and then finish in and around May/June with promotion for season 2022. 

Why the winter break Akro? The player's and fan's will have had a 5 month furlough by September, then you propose at least another two months off after Boxing day, play for 3 months then presumably have 7 months of till the start of 2022.

Your idea has some ground for me but I would play it through to a conclusion about March time, then has happened with the winter to summer transition in '95, a shortened format could be devised to take us back into a regular fixture list in 2022.

If crowds are allowed back come September everyone wins.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You know very well that not only Leigh would want to restart, c'mon Ginge you have more brains than making proposals such as that.

How many then? How many to make it reasonable? Two, three ...?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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12 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Not sure it'd be that close; 8-4 against a Championship restart I'd imagine.

I'm not so sure it really is up in the air how Bradford, Widnes, Sheffield, York etc would vote aside from the 4 that you'd put in the certainties category. Either way I wouldn't push for a vote until I was certain I would win - which clearly isn't the case now.

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14 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Sounds like after the Lord Mayor's show Tommy.

It might be that's all the championship can be this year H

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Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I consider there would be a minimum of 5.

That's less than half the League H? Which would make voting that through a bit tricky as presumably someone (possibly 2 teams if it goes to a 51% system) would have to vote to restart but not actually restart themselves?

 

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26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You know very well that not only Leigh would want to restart, c'mon Ginge you have more brains than making proposals such as that.

 

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm not so sure it really is up in the air how Bradford, Widnes, Sheffield, York etc would vote aside from the 4 that you'd put in the certainties category. 

 

Harry, who do you know that definitely wants to restart. Leigh and Featherstone are definite, I assume. Has any other club actually said that they wish to re-start?

Bradford keep getting put in these lists, but they have already said they are against restarting

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Just now, paulwalker71 said:

 

 

Harry, who do you know that definitely wants to restart. Leigh and Featherstone are definite, I assume. Has any other club actually said that they wish to re-start?

Bradford keep getting put in these lists, but they have already said they are against restarting

Leigh, Fev, then I suppose London and Toulouse are in there. The situation for the rest would clear up again if the situation on crowds was clearer.

Also, https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/18532354.bradford-bulls-drawing-player-budget-2021-season/. This article would suggest the Bulls are wanting to resume training next month. That's not the attitude of the null and void brigade really?

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7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That's less than half the League H? Which would make voting that through a bit tricky as presumably someone (possibly 2 teams if it goes to a 51% system) would have to vote to restart but not actually restart themselves?

 

Read back Tommy, my proposal is not a binary vote.

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2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Read back Tommy, my proposal is not a binary vote.

I appreciate that your splitting between continue and not. But it seems from the clubs official statements that this is an all in all out kind of deal. So even the clubs that voted to void would still vote on whether the others could continue a "championship" season.

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