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The Daddy

Elland Road set for increase to 50,000 capacity

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there must have been an unofficial 50k in that ground for the cc final replay widnes v hull 82? never seen anything like it


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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24 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

They appear to have begun to fall apart again this evening, this far.

Not tonight, Iam a Barnsley supporter need em to beat Luton. 

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3 hours ago, The Daddy said:

A 50,000 capacity Elland Road works well for England test matches. Not too big to not sell out and not too small. 

It's a decent sized stadium in the centre of the heartlands. Perfect for NZ, PNG test matches or even France. 

50,000 for test matches against NZ, PNG or France. It’d be great, and we should be working towards it, but has it ever happened before?

England play at home so rarely I fear the England brand built up at the 2013 World Cup and the 2011 and 2016 Four Nations has gone to waste. 

Since 2016 all the home games we’ve had are a friendly against France and a few games against a weakened Kiwis side. 

To get to a place where we draw 50,000 at home to PNG or France we need to play home games every year.

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Just thinking about this in more detail. I’ve not been to Elland Road but everyone I know who has says it’s well in need of a facelift. 

If/when Leeds Utd get promoted, surely the last thing they would want to do is rip a stand or two down, ala Leeds Rhinos. They could likely sell Elland Road out twice over should they get promoted so reducing your income (and losing atmosphere) over 4-5 years of a rebuild while you’re trying to stay in the Premier League by ripping stands down just doesn’t seem sensible. I do wonder if they could take the Tottenham Hotspur approach where they build the new stadium at a different angle, while remaining in the “old” Elland Road. 

A shiny, new Elland Road would be good for Rugby League though. It seems The RFL and Leeds Rhinos has a decent relationship with Leeds Utd and I quite like the idea of more games at Elland Road. A Leeds v Cas double header with another game sounds like a good idea but the next best followed Yorkshire sides are the two Hull ones and dragging them from Hull to Leeds doesn’t seem to sensible, it’s a shame Bradford aren’t in the big time. 

 

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8 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

It's a chicken and egg situation.

We dont have many of the huge events because we dont put too many on

We dont out too many on because we need to find and rent a stadium, then build the market, then make money.

Then the next year the cycle starts over.

It also makes us reticent to start events and invest in the long term.

It also leaves us, generally, with quite a short runway to sell things as they need to be negotiated.

Having a home means that we can look at the events we have, create some new ones and create a calendar for 5-10years and build those events.

There is also a sense that the events we do put on are like a gas, they fill the container they are in. Treat something like a big event and people treat it like a big event, dont and they wont.

There are plenty of events we can sell at that level. The WCC, Cup semis, 9s weekend, England games. That's 5 or 6 events straight off.

Then you can look at creating them. Start the season with a bang. Replay the GF as a stand alone game. 

Yorkshire day triple header with the 6 yorkshire clubs playing as a mini magic. 

The play-off games are terribly attended, perhaps the prestige of a big event helps that.

We need to build things and avoid the cycle we too often create of looking to smaller stadiums to create a sell out and instead just getting even lower attendances. 

There are some things we can do better, but I can't think of many which don't exist that would or could justify the hiring of a 50,000 capacity soccer stadium. And no, that's not being unambitious, it's understanding what works and what doesn't in Rugby League. Too many of what people claim would be big events were they only marketed properly have the stink of the dreaded Mickey Mouse about them.

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On 29/06/2020 at 17:40, Tommygilf said:

Leeds and London are the places we consistently get the best international crowds.

I hadn't looked at this thread Tommy so sorry for being late, but that statement of yours got me thinking, how far do you want to go back? And also and for a true reflection I think you have to consider RFL International games which includes GB as well as England, so I did a bit of checking and only went back to the early 90's and whenever international series games were played where and there was a comparrison between the East and West of the Pennines the west usually came out on with the better figures, a notable exception being the 2004 tri nations for Englands introduction game v Australia at Man City's ground on the 30th Oct there were 38,572, on the 27th Nov at Elland Road a capacity of 39,120 were present that was v Australia it was also the final I would suggest if it had been held in Manchester it would have surpassed that figure, obviously there could also have been more at Elland Rd, alternatively the 18 series v NZ Leeds got more than the Liverpool fixture, Funnily enough there have not been many if any internationals involving Manchester since England became our First choice national team, is that because we have the annual GF played there? So whilst you say Leeds is one of the two to get the best International crowds I think given the capacity of the two Manchester Stadiums if games had been scheduled in that city Leeds could very well be third in the list.

Just a thought.

PS, I went to Liverpool for that game, and I will not be returning to Anfield, I am not overly tall at 6'-00" and not got a very long leg length but the distance between the seats was so uncomfortably short they made Budget Aircrats distancing look like loungers how taller guys than me can go there week after week I just don't know.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I hadn't looked at this thread Tommy so sorry for being late, but that statement of yours got me thinking, how far do you want to go back? And also and for a true reflection I think you have to consider RFL International games which includes GB as well as England, so I did a bit of checking and only went back to the early 90's and whenever international series games were played where and there was a comparrison between the East and West of the Pennines the west usually came out on with the better figures, a notable exception being the 2004 tri nations for Englands introduction game v Australia at Man City's ground on the 30th Oct there were 38,572, on the 27th Nov at Elland Road a capacity of 39,120 were present that was v Australia it was also the final I would suggest if it had been held in Manchester it would have surpassed that figure, obviously there could also have been more at Elland Rd, alternatively the 18 series v NZ Leeds got more than the Liverpool fixture, Funnily enough there have not been many if any internationals involving Manchester since England became our First choice national team, is that because we have the annual GF played there? So whilst you say Leeds is one of the two to get the best International crowds I think given the capacity of the two Manchester Stadiums if games had been scheduled in that city Leeds could very well be third in the list.

Just a thought.

I put it as a general statement. Leeds and London get consistently higher crowds for any normal internationals, especially England matches but also for other nations.

England's B team got more against Jamaica in Leeds than England did against France in Greater Manchester for example. In terms of support for International rugby league Leeds and London have consistently proven themselves to be the de facto places to get top rl crowds. As a base they both just get high crowds consistently. Hence why they will host the two semi finals in the World cup.

Manchester would be the obvious 3rd option after those, but for whatever reason it has not been favoured by the RFL for over a decade. Perhaps the 60k plus capacity at City and United hasn't enticed the RFL and other international matches in Lancashire during the past decade at larger stadia haven't been a positive indicator?

One thing I noticed in the most recent home kiwis series was that the Hull attendance seemed to suffer with an England game at Elland road 2 weeks later. Realistically I'd look at Leeds, London and Manchester as the ideal 3 venues for England matches outside of home World cups.

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37 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I put it as a general statement. Leeds and London get consistently higher crowds for any normal internationals, especially England matches but also for other nations.

England's B team got more against Jamaica in Leeds than England did against France in Greater Manchester for example. In terms of support for International rugby league Leeds and London have consistently proven themselves to be the de facto places to get top rl crowds. As a base they both just get high crowds consistently. Hence why they will host the two semi finals in the World cup.

Manchester would be the obvious 3rd option after those, but for whatever reason it has not been favoured by the RFL for over a decade. Perhaps the 60k plus capacity at City and United hasn't enticed the RFL and other international matches in Lancashire during the past decade at larger stadia haven't been a positive indicator?

One thing I noticed in the most recent home kiwis series was that the Hull attendance seemed to suffer with an England game at Elland road 2 weeks later. Realistically I'd look at Leeds, London and Manchester as the ideal 3 venues for England matches outside of home World cups.

I've thought this for a long time. All 3 are probably the easiest to get to in their respective regions, get some consistency in where the matches are played and build but the relationships too. Etihad Stadium, Elland Road & Tottenham for Australia and the Kiwis, and if we ever get Tonga, Fiji, Samoa or PNG over for a 3 match series maybe scale down a bit but keep them in the respective areas - Wigan, St Helens or Warrington for the west, Huddersfield, Headingly or Hull for the East. Not sure about smaller London stadiums

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100% League 0% Union

Just because I don't know doesn't mean I don't understand

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37 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I've thought this for a long time. All 3 are probably the easiest to get to in their respective regions, get some consistency in where the matches are played and build but the relationships too. Etihad Stadium, Elland Road & Tottenham for Australia and the Kiwis, and if we ever get Tonga, Fiji, Samoa or PNG over for a 3 match series maybe scale down a bit but keep them in the respective areas - Wigan, St Helens or Warrington for the west, Huddersfield, Headingly or Hull for the East. Not sure about smaller London stadiums

Completely agree, nearly. Home games in Leeds, Manchester and London absolutely makes sense. But I’d love to see England v Tonga play a 3 game series with game 1 at Elland Road, game 2 at Tottenham and game 3 at Etihad.

Tonga are an absolute force at the moment, they’ve beaten Australia, GB and NZ, we made a massive error not bringing them over in 2018 IMO.

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47 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Completely agree, nearly. Home games in Leeds, Manchester and London absolutely makes sense. But I’d love to see England v Tonga play a 3 game series with game 1 at Elland Road, game 2 at Tottenham and game 3 at Etihad.

Tonga are an absolute force at the moment, they’ve beaten Australia, GB and NZ, we made a massive error not bringing them over in 2018 IMO.

 

17 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

England should never play in a stadium less than 35k imo.

I think these are both fair points. Could we get more than 25-30K against Tonga, I believe with a decent lead in we can. I'm less certain of getting those numbers against the other nations but would be happy to try. What I would like to see is home tests for 2022 confirmed ahead of the world cup, if Australia are dithering then invite Tonga and maybe another nation and get them in the diary, they could even have warm up, mid week or end of series games against any of France, Scotland, Wales or Ireland.


100% League 0% Union

Just because I don't know doesn't mean I don't understand

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17 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

England should never play in a stadium less than 35k imo.

One of the games is already at Bramall Lane and that's a 32,000 capacity depending on the soccer opposition but not much more anyway. The problem with Bramall Lane is the Kop behind the sticks has 2 huge posts so you do get restricted view from most of it. 

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1 minute ago, HarrogateKnights said:

One of the games is already at Bramall Lane and that's a 32,000 capacity depending on the soccer opposition but not much more anyway. The problem with Bramall Lane is the Kop behind the sticks has 2 huge posts so you do get restricted view from most of it. 

However saying that there owner has said yesterday that he is now in control of all assets including the stadium with a view for improvement. I know a while back (2007) they were considering a similar approach in the sense of knocking down their kop and rebuilding without the posts however they got relegated from the Premier League so that didn't happen 

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