Dunbar Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, DoubleD said: Wouldn’t Canberra be due compensation if he’s still under contract? I wouldn't have thought so. The fee that the Raiders paid Wigan would be to release him from the remainder of his contract. Whether the player then fulfills the contract with the Raiders is not the responsibility of Wigan. Seeing as though Bateman is simply able to say he is walking out with a year left is further indication that the structure of his contract with the Raiders is quite unique as it has a renegotiation built in at the end of each year and (you would assume) a release clause if agreement is not found. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I wouldn't have thought so. The fee that the Raiders paid Wigan would be to release him from the remainder of his contract. Whether the player then fulfills the contract with the Raiders is not the responsibility of Wigan. Seeing as though Bateman is simply able to say he is walking out with a year left is further indication that the structure of his contract with the Raiders is quite unique as it has a renegotiation built in at the end of each year and (you would assume) a release clause if agreement is not found. Well the Raiders only have themselves to blame in such a scenario then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 59 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: Whatever Canberra have said, they must have been clearly aware that their salary cap restrictions would be stretched to afford JB. That aside, signing on fee and him leaving shorter than expected seems to be the issue for Canberra: The Raiders are angry that they paid a £200,000 ($358,000) transfer fee to Bateman's former club Wigan to bring him to Canberra, only for him to leave with one season remaining on his contract. https://www.watoday.com.au/sport/nrl/my-job-is-to-look-after-my-clients-nrl-agent-hits-back-at-stuart-spray-20200701-p5582c.html It does seem awfully naive of Canberra if they have left themselves open to Bateman leaving for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, Damien said: It does seem awfully naive of Canberra if they have left themselves open to Bateman leaving for nothing. I agree and seems that way. It seems strange that Elliot Whitehead, is happy with his brass and playing outstandingly well. John is unhappy with his and facing a far from certain future due to injury. When things are looking that way, it’s nice to have mates around. Maybe that’s it? Back to Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: I agree and seems that way. It seems strange that Elliot Whitehead, is happy with his brass and playing outstandingly well. John is unhappy with his and facing a far from certain future due to injury. When things are looking that way, it’s nice to have mates around. Maybe that’s it? Back to Wigan. Personally I’d rather have Whitehead in my team . He’s consistently outstanding over a long time there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Lowdesert said: Whatever Canberra have said, they must have been clearly aware that their salary cap restrictions would be stretched to afford JB. That aside, signing on fee and him leaving shorter than expected seems to be the issue for Canberra: The Raiders are angry that they paid a £200,000 ($358,000) transfer fee to Bateman's former club Wigan to bring him to Canberra, only for him to leave with one season remaining on his contract. https://www.watoday.com.au/sport/nrl/my-job-is-to-look-after-my-clients-nrl-agent-hits-back-at-stuart-spray-20200701-p5582c.html Have they released him from that contract of were there clauses within it to allow him to leave? They do have a certain way of washing dirty linen in Oz, don't they? Nobody really comes out of this well. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 33 minutes ago, DoubleD said: Well the Raiders only have themselves to blame in such a scenario then When the Raiders signed Bateman there was a lot of discussion about whether he would make it over there. Despite his record at Super League level and being an international, there were plenty of people questioning whether he would be up to the physical side of the NRL. When they signed him, the Raiders may well have been happy to get him a little cheaper in year 1 with the promise of more if he performed well. Then they have a Dally M second row of the year on their hands asking for more money (as per the renegotiation clause in his contract) and either no money to pay him under the cap or unprepared to go that high. Naive to lose him or did well to have him for their Grand Final appearance season in 2019 in the first place is dependent on outlook I guess. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Blind side johnny said: Have they released him from that contract of were there clauses within it to allow him to leave? It has been reported that he has a clause in his contract to negotiate the terms at the end of each year. Without a release clause then that would be a little irrelevant: Player: "I want more money" Club: "You can't have any and you are still under contract" Surely, the only way a negotiation clause could work is a release element if agreement is not reached. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dunbar said: When the Raiders signed Bateman there was a lot of discussion about whether he would make it over there. Despite his record at Super League level and being an international, there were plenty of people questioning whether he would be up to the physical side of the NRL. When they signed him, the Raiders may well have been happy to get him a little cheaper in year 1 with the promise of more if he performed well. Then they have a Dally M second row of the year on their hands asking for more money (as per the renegotiation clause in his contract) and either no money to pay him under the cap or unprepared to go that high. Naive to lose him or did well to have him for their Grand Final appearance season in 2019 in the first place is dependent on outlook I guess. Naive. They could have either put in performance related bonuses or merely promised a review at the end of yr 1, as is common in many workplaces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 16 minutes ago, Dunbar said: When the Raiders signed Bateman there was a lot of discussion about whether he would make it over there. Despite his record at Super League level and being an international, there were plenty of people questioning whether he would be up to the physical side of the NRL. When they signed him, the Raiders may well have been happy to get him a little cheaper in year 1 with the promise of more if he performed well. Then they have a Dally M second row of the year on their hands asking for more money (as per the renegotiation clause in his contract) and either no money to pay him under the cap or unprepared to go that high. Naive to lose him or did well to have him for their Grand Final appearance season in 2019 in the first place is dependent on outlook I guess. Indeed . It does seem odd that they put this clause it if they knew they were so tight on the cap up to at least 2022 . Maybe he surprised them , doubly so by how much he then thought he was worth after one year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 I am really surprised that these clubs don't run their contract by forums such as this. The free expertise available would save them enough to buy a couple of extra players. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, DavidM said: Indeed . It does seem odd that they put this clause it if they knew they were so tight on the cap up to at least 2022 . Maybe he surprised them , doubly so by how much he then thought he was worth after one year If fit, he still has to play this year out and the Raiders are capable enough to finish in the playoffs. Will Stuart pick him at all? What mood in the playing group? If he does play, I can imagine the crowd getting at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: If fit, he still has to play this year out and the Raiders are capable enough to finish in the playoffs. Will Stuart pick him at all? What mood in the playing group? If he does play, I can imagine the crowd getting at him. I’m sure he will , but when will he return , if at all this season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Lowdesert said: If fit, he still has to play this year out and the Raiders are capable enough to finish in the playoffs. Will Stuart pick him at all? What mood in the playing group? If he does play, I can imagine the crowd getting at him. Hopefully everyone concerned will act professionally and perform as well as they can for the rest of the year. For example, Sam Burgess announced that he was leaving the Rabittohs in 2014 and then went on to win the Clive Churchill medal in their Grand Final win so it is very possible for players to continue to perform despite the off field issues. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, DavidM said: Indeed . It does seem odd that they put this clause it if they knew they were so tight on the cap up to at least 2022 . Maybe he surprised them , doubly so by how much he then thought he was worth after one year I guess that's one of the consequences of League being all over the news coverage in Australia. Players will get a greater (or inflated) sense of their own worth and value. We don't run the risk of that over here at least. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 This could shed more light on the subject. 'A source' involved. https://www.zerotackle.com/raiders-duo-linked-to-moves-elsewhere-as-nrl-club-tables-off-to-hastings-nrl-56752/ Also: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/07/02/croker-batemans-been-upfront-with-us/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 18 hours ago, Lowdesert said: I agree and seems that way. It seems strange that Elliot Whitehead, is happy with his brass and playing outstandingly well. John is unhappy with his and facing a far from certain future due to injury. When things are looking that way, it’s nice to have mates around. Maybe that’s it? Back to Wigan. Whitehead is on a fair bit more money than Bateman, so I can imagine he is happy with his money. Saw an article when all this came out which was talking about how Bateman would compare to his team mates if they gave him the A$800k he was after -Whitehead is 5th highest earner after Wighton, Papalii, CNK and Hodgson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: Whitehead is on a fair bit more money than Bateman, so I can imagine he is happy with his money. Saw an article when all this came out which was talking about how Bateman would compare to his team mates if they gave him the A$800k he was after -Whitehead is 5th highest earner after Wighton, Papalii, CNK and Hodgson. Those five earn more than the Captain? That would be unusual. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Allora said: Those five earn more than the Captain? That would be unusual. Well he's only co-captain now with Hodgson haha. But no, I was surprised too - Croker was about 7th or 8th from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Lowdesert said: This could shed more light on the subject. 'A source' involved. https://www.zerotackle.com/raiders-duo-linked-to-moves-elsewhere-as-nrl-club-tables-off-to-hastings-nrl-56752/ Also: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/07/02/croker-batemans-been-upfront-with-us/ Slightly off topic but that first article is so badly written it is almost impossible to read. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: Whitehead is on a fair bit more money than Bateman, so I can imagine he is happy with his money. Saw an article when all this came out which was talking about how Bateman would compare to his team mates if they gave him the A$800k he was after -Whitehead is 5th highest earner after Wighton, Papalii, CNK and Hodgson. How come Nicoll-Klokstad is on so much, I thought they plucked him out of the Warriors reserve grade as unknown. Has he had an upgrade since then? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Complaining about paying a transfer fee for a player on a 2 year contract leaving after those 2 years is the height of stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Just now, Dunbar said: How come Nicoll-Klokstad is on so much, I thought they plucked him out of the Warriors reserve grade as unknown. Has he had an upgrade since then? He did get an upgrade mate yeah - end of last season. Reckon they wanted to tie him down before they had a Bateman situation! Also, @Allora the length of Croker's deal might explain why he's not in the top earners - more money but spread over more years? Would make sense at his age to get a deal like that maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: He did get an upgrade mate yeah - end of last season. Reckon they wanted to tie him down before they had a Bateman situation! Also, @Allora the length of Croker's deal might explain why he's not in the top earners - more money but spread over more years? Would make sense at his age to get a deal like that maybe. It was reported in the Canberra Times in March this year that.. Jarrod Croker is poised to become a Canberra Raider for life after agreeing to what will be a record-breaking contract extension on the eve of the NRL Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: Whitehead is on a fair bit more money than Bateman, so I can imagine he is happy with his money. Saw an article when all this came out which was talking about how Bateman would compare to his team mates if they gave him the A$800k he was after -Whitehead is 5th highest earner after Wighton, Papalii, CNK and Hodgson. I understood Bateman was on 580 and Whitehead 600k. Dunbar has quoted 400k - but whatever it was, is not what is being offered now, which is alleged on here to be 750k. I dont think anyone is on 800k at Canberra. Wighton, i think is on 750k My comment though was based on what you accept to be comfortable and happy. Big money with unhappiness does not take the unhappiness away and will ultimately result in poor performance long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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