RL in New Zealand

[gnidir]

7 hours ago, Taniwha Warriors said:

In the under 20 rugby league provincial level your either selected for Auckland Blues or Auckland White. Then if you graduate into the senior provincial rugby league team, you then play for Akarana Falcons. Not sure why dont they just use Auckland or Akarana for all rep teams. 

The 20s is a combine of Akarana, Counties Manukau and ARL. For some reason, ARL still run rep teams, despite the NZRL recognising Akarana and Counties as the voting members. It's all a bit complex, but to me, it looks like when the report I listed earlier came out, ARL decided that they were bigger than that and wanted to do their own thing.In the past few years ARL have gone back to fielding rep teams, its all cannibalistic.

 

 

[Futtocks]

https://www.intrl.sport/news/new-zealand-under-20-s-competition-kicks-off-this-weekend/

New Zealand Rugby League will kick off its inaugural National 20s Competition this Saturday 27 February.

All games will be televised live on Sky Sport 4, and for Australian viewers games available on Fox League, Kayo and Watch NRL.
 

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

I love your optimism re sell out crowds but do you think the international game down there is big enough to do that? As I recall even the last WC final had a fair few empty seats? 

Why not ? the only thing holding the back the ANZAC Test series from being as big as SOO is the fact that it is still too one-sided. 

You know what it`s like for RL, the bigger the crowd the better the show the players put on, once it starts being a genuine contest I have no doubt people both sides of the Tasman and from states outside of League heartlands in Oz will flock to it. Why wouldn`t you ? Who doesn`t want to see Kiwi and Aussie forwards going at it and the rest.

And once the money is there the NRL will follow. 

[DoubleD]

4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I’d like to see the next Oceania Cup held exclusively in New Zealand, I think it’d be a great success with big attendances. Why on earth the New Zealand v Australia fixture in the last tournament was held in Wollongong I will never know. 

Probably because the local authority underwrote it akin to the Hull vs Wigan game there

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

18 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Probably because the local authority underwrote it akin to the Hull vs Wigan game there

If that’s the case we need more ambition for the top of tInternational game 

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

NRL viewing figures or NZ domestic RL viewing figures?

It was a survey, for the want of a better word, that listed how many times each code or in the case of the All Blacks they were listed separately were viewed.

I remember the All Blacks were off the charts, which makes sense, cause like any national team and especially the AB`s in NZ a lot of casual viewers would tune in, so they were something like 20 000 000 views, it may have been more, other rugby was next and then there was League a fair way back but respectable I remember thinking. To be honest I can`t even remember now if there was cricket in there or whether this was for winter sports.

I`m sorry I can`t be more precise but I`m pretty sure that was the gist of it.

BTW to answer your question I suppose that must have meant NRL games beamed into NZ plus Warriors home games. Either way it showed to me there was a fair bit of RL viewing be it casual or not.

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, thebrewxi said:

When does Fox Memorial start? Hopefully streamed in 2021

All depends on Jacinda.

[unapologetic pedant]

12 hours ago, Damien said:

I think the NRL probably feel like they don't need to. They already have the supply of players they need with minimal investment.

I`m assuming this post is an expression of regret. If so, I agree.

Those posters who think it benefits RL to "raid", as they put it, NZ schoolboy Union ranks are neglecting the wider context.

When a League junior starts playing RU at school his family are drawn into Union social circles. They become more likely to follow Union. Hence, via its dominance in NZ schools, RU exerts a continuous gravitational pull on the NZ League community.

If the NRL really wanted to help NZRL, they could provide funding to help junior RL clubs forge partnerships with their local schools.

 

[Newguy]

4 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m assuming this post is an expression of regret. If so, I agree.

Those posters who think it benefits RL to "raid", as they put it, NZ schoolboy Union ranks are neglecting the wider context.

When a League junior starts playing RU at school his family are drawn into Union social circles. They become more likely to follow Union. Hence, via its dominance in NZ schools, RU exerts a continuous gravitational pull on the NZ League community.

If the NRL really wanted to help NZRL, they could provide funding to help junior RL clubs forge partnerships with their local schools.

 

Mate, you've never been to New Zealand and it shows.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, Newguy said:

Mate, you've never been to New Zealand and it shows.

Is there any substantive point in this post? I`m happy to have everything explained, if you can manage to dispense with the pointless ad hominem stuff.

[Tommygilf]

8 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m assuming this post is an expression of regret. If so, I agree.

Those posters who think it benefits RL to "raid", as they put it, NZ schoolboy Union ranks are neglecting the wider context.

When a League junior starts playing RU at school his family are drawn into Union social circles. They become more likely to follow Union. Hence, via its dominance in NZ schools, RU exerts a continuous gravitational pull on the NZ League community.

If the NRL really wanted to help NZRL, they could provide funding to help junior RL clubs forge partnerships with their local schools.

 

Would these be the same schools, themselves older than the sport of Rugby League in many cases, that offer scholarships to young boys from the poorest neighbourhoods to play RU? 

Aside from RU being the undisputed dominant sport full stop in NZ, nothing is breaking the hold of it in those schools and in any case it shows its a far bigger topic than just NZRU dominating school sport. Unless the NRL wants to fund its own private schools or a proletarian cultural revolution, then League in NZ isn't going to be competing on the same levels - which actually is fine for now given the talent that still overflows from the land of Kiwis either directly from league or via a detour to the elite schools system.

NZ RL needs to be strong where it is strong, that is to say a lot of the poorer/Maori/Polynesian communities on the North Island, and work to expand that footprint with solid community work and schools that are relevant to those communities - which tbf it already does.

[unapologetic pedant]

25 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Would these be the same schools, themselves older than the sport of Rugby League in many cases, that offer scholarships to young boys from the poorest neighbourhoods to play RU? 

No, I was referring to schools in the state sector.

Another Kiwi poster has described a lack of will among Auckland RL clubs as a reason for the failure to establish League in more schools there. As Newguy graciously reminds me, I`m not best qualified to attest to the veracity of this, but it seems a harsh judgement given that most clubs have little money. Everything would have to be done by unpaid volunteers. 

If the NRL funded development officers and better facilities and equipment, it would surely improve the offer clubs could make to schools.

[thebrewxi]

13 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

All depends on Jacinda.

Is NZ not "back to normal" in terms of sport, bars, etc. I didn't realise. From everything I see on social media (big festivals, etc) I just assumed they were back to living life as per normal. Whilst I'm sat here trying to understand what a split digraph is.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

No, I was referring to schools in the state sector.

Another Kiwi poster has described a lack of will among Auckland RL clubs as a reason for the failure to establish League in more schools there. As Newguy graciously reminds me, I`m not best qualified to attest to the veracity of this, but it seems a harsh judgement given that most clubs have little money. Everything would have to be done by unpaid volunteers. 

If the NRL funded development officers and better facilities and equipment, it would surely improve the offer clubs could make to schools.

The state sector isn't where the NRL is plucking the RU players from directly though - they come from the effectively professional (and almost exclusively private) school league. You could argue many have been themselves plucked from the state sector to those private schools - though in the grand scheme of this debate that is a rather moot point. It is this highly professional environment (games are broadcast for Sky Sports), that the NRL clubs are recruiting from NZ Schools.

The non-private schoolboys are more often than not brought over to Australia at a far earlier age as their League abilities, not their school pedigree necessarily, is the reason for their selection and they are frankly much easier to move.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, thebrewxi said:

Is NZ not "back to normal" in terms of sport, bars, etc. I didn't realise. From everything I see on social media (big festivals, etc) I just assumed they were back to living life as per normal. Whilst I'm sat here trying to understand what a split digraph is.

There was a 3-day lockdown in mid Feb in Auckland following the discovery of a few new cases. The ARL suspended all activity. Don`t know what the current position is, but like over here there has to be a risk this will happen more as they move towards winter.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

20 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Why not ? the only thing holding the back the ANZAC Test series from being as big as SOO is the fact that it is still too one-sided. 

You know what it`s like for RL, the bigger the crowd the better the show the players put on, once it starts being a genuine contest I have no doubt people both sides of the Tasman and from states outside of League heartlands in Oz will flock to it. Why wouldn`t you ? Who doesn`t want to see Kiwi and Aussie forwards going at it and the rest.

And once the money is there the NRL will follow. 

I never watch and will never watch SOO but I have fond memories as a kid watching the old trans-Tasman 3 match test series in the 90’s.

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

I never watch and will never watch SOO but I have fond memories as a kid watching the old trans-Tasman 3 match test series in the 90’s.

Now mate, usually in SOO you either hate one team or the other, it appears that you hate both.....unique !!

[Taniwha Warriors]

21 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m assuming this post is an expression of regret. If so, I agree.

Those posters who think it benefits RL to "raid", as they put it, NZ schoolboy Union ranks are neglecting the wider context.

When a League junior starts playing RU at school his family are drawn into Union social circles. They become more likely to follow Union. Hence, via its dominance in NZ schools, RU exerts a continuous gravitational pull on the NZ League community.

If the NRL really wanted to help NZRL, they could provide funding to help junior RL clubs forge partnerships with their local schools.

 

I'm not sure what a league junior is anymore here in NZ. Union isn't just a college/high school game. It's also played at primary school so you can play club league on Saturday and play school rugby union midweek if your 6-12years old. SBW was doing the same back in the days.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Now mate, usually in SOO you either hate one team or the other, it appears that you hate both.....unique !!

I do. I’d rather watch international RL. Even if it’s chile v peru

[unapologetic pedant]

15 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The state sector isn't where the NRL is plucking the RU players from directly though - they come from the effectively professional (and almost exclusively private) school league. You could argue many have been themselves plucked from the state sector to those private schools - though in the grand scheme of this debate that is a rather moot point. It is this highly professional environment (games are broadcast for Sky Sports), that the NRL clubs are recruiting from NZ Schools.

I don`t know what the balance between private/state is in the production of elite NZ players whether signed by NRL clubs or generally. Partly because, like elsewhere, it`s hard to judge when looking at player bios which schools are private, which are state. I`d be surprised if it`s as privately-dominated as you portray. 

Christchurch Boys High, I think is state, and regarded as traditionally one of the strongest RU schools in the world. They fielded a team in the RL Pacific Series gala a couple of years ago.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I don`t know what the balance between private/state is in the production of elite NZ players whether signed by NRL clubs or generally. Partly because, like elsewhere, it`s hard to judge when looking at player bios which schools are private, which are state. I`d be surprised if it`s as privately-dominated as you portray. 

Christchurch Boys High, I think is state, and regarded as traditionally one of the strongest RU schools in the world. They fielded a team in the RL Pacific Series gala a couple of years ago.

Christchurch, indeed the entire south island, is a bit of an outpost in RL terms so I applaud them for getting a team out.

Realistically we need to be looking at the Auckland area for RL player development and the associated school league. Kelston, MAGS and Sacred Heart stand out as state (and by consequence much more largely Pacifika) schools that compete in that RU league regularly and have had lots of NZ warriors/NRL players go through their doors. Its notable too that a lot of these players have been in the past 10/15 years, after ever increasingly stricter rules on "poaching" schoolboy rugby players have come in.

What I think is clear is that there is a cultural connection to RU, both in the public and state schools - because RU in NZ doesn't have as much of the same class baggage it does elsewhere.

Fighting that, and spending significant money to do so, seems a bit silly.

[thebrewxi]

Isnt there a fairly isolated area on the west coast of the south island that is mad for league. 

I've never been to NZ so basing that off memory and what I read on forums.

[kiwis 13 6]

On 25/02/2021 at 12:45, unapologetic pedant said:

If the NRL really wanted to help NZRL, they could provide funding to help junior RL clubs forge partnerships with their local schools.

I totally agree with this

[Cumbrian Mackem]

7 hours ago, thebrewxi said:

Isnt there a fairly isolated area on the west coast of the south island that is mad for league. 

I've never been to NZ so basing that off memory and what I read on forums.

Greymouth. Home of the late great Quentin pongia.

[nadera78]

7 hours ago, thebrewxi said:

Isnt there a fairly isolated area on the west coast of the south island that is mad for league. 

I've never been to NZ so basing that off memory and what I read on forums.

Yeah, Greymouth and the wider Grey Valley produced something like 50 Kiwis over the years. Unfortunately, since the mining and forestry industries died the population has collapsed and with it the senior competition. They still cobble together a couple of open age teams to play a few games, and the juniors are still going strong but it's not like it used to be. There's a handful of Coasters dotted here and there in the pro game - Slade Griffin had a solid NRL career, Griffin Neame is emerging at the Cowboys, and a handful have gone to Qld/NSW Cup teams. Unfortunately, while the game is still very popular, the population just isn't there anymore.