D W Stadium - Wigan Warriors

[Eddie]

How many clubs have been in this financial position and how many have actually gone under, it’s a lot and very few. I don’t think there’s much chance of Wigan Athletic folding so the status quo with Wigan Rugby and the ground will continue. 

[Bostik Bailey]

10 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Interesting points regarding the financial impact of Robin Park. The DW lost £1.5m in 2019 and that was before Warriors opened up right next door and directly hit stadium revenue.

It also used to be a regular RFL match venue, but Bolton is the preferred local 25k option now and I can't see that changing anytime soon.

Just speculating here but the RFL matches appeared to dry up once Latic started messing the rugby club around, trying to stop them playing cup matches always complaining about rugby damaging the pitch etc.

[Tommygilf]

8 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Wigan Athletic were never going to be a powerhouse of English soccer and are not significantly well supported (relatively speaking for the sport in England) so one has to wonder at the motives of the Hong Kong consortium by buying the club in the first place.

Wigan going down to league 1 is like Hull and Huddersfield doing so. They are historically solid 2nd/3rd division sides that have done very well to get to the premier league in recent times but that is the exception rather than the norm. 

[Lionheart_merged]

The DW Stadium is now over 20 years old and I understand that it needs money spending on parts of the infrastructure.  In recent seasons the pitch has been relaid several times at a significant cost.  Ian Lenagan has regularly commented that he has no interest in purchasing the DW because he is completely satisfied with Wigan Warriors long term lease arrangements. 

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, Padge said:

Sorry that was badly worded, WIgan Rugby get nothing from the bars, that is why they have set up a rival bar next door for fans pre-match.

So effectively taking money from their landlords, good buisness but is it ethical? Especially that you term it as a "rival bar".

[Padge]

39 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So effectively taking money from their landlords, good buisness but is it ethical? Especially that you term it as a "rival bar".

Their landlords refuse to offer the club a percentage of the takings that go over the bar, since it is their fans that are putting up the money they are merely saying to the fans you can give us the money or give them the money, your choice.

One of the first things Lenagan did when he took over was move the clubs admin out of the stadium, he reckoned the rents charged for their office space was excessive. 

Whelan always understood that you don't make money from a sports club but you do from a stadium, Lenagan also knows it also. 

Lenagan is applying pressure to get his club a fair cut of the money the fans of his club handover.

Totally ethical, he is looking after Wigan rugby and their supporters, that is his first duty.

[Gooleboy]

9 hours ago, Padge said:

No

 

So why did they sell it?

[Blind side johnny]

13 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’ve heard that too but I’m always amazed a town the size of Wigan can have two sports that don’t get on. Surely a lot of people must support both, even if a vocal minority don’t?

This isn't just true in Wigan. There is antipathy between soccer and rugby fans in a number of other towns and cities.

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

So effectively taking money from their landlords, good buisness but is it ethical? Especially that you term it as a "rival bar".

The whole Robin Park complex at Wigan that they use was supported by the local council. 

The real hit I suspect was taken by the Wigan center pubs when Central Park closed and the DW was built further out.

[Padge]

3 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

So why did they sell it?

Read the thread I gave an explanation earlier.

[Hela Wigmen]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

How many clubs have been in this financial position and how many have actually gone under, it’s a lot and very few. I don’t think there’s much chance of Wigan Athletic folding so the status quo with Wigan Rugby and the ground will continue. 

12 interested parties according to the administrators inside less than 24 hours, if you choose to believe that. 

 

[Padge]

7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

12 interested parties according to the administrators inside less than 24 hours, if you choose to believe that. 

 

They probably think they get the rugby club as well.

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Padge said:

They probably think they get the rugby club as well.

Good point, but as they say everything has a price, over to Mr Leneghan.

[gingerjon]

30 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

12 interested parties according to the administrators inside less than 24 hours, if you choose to believe that. 

 

I do believe that given that at this stage it's simply a case of notifying them that you're interested. There's not been time for any due diligence from anyone yet.

[redjonn]

17 hours ago, Padge said:

The land on which the stadium sits is leased from the council that has covenants on the land restricting its use to football and rugby. So no development is going to happen.

As for your comments about points reduction, what are you wittering on about.

How strong are the covenants... in that I assume the council could remove or relax them. That is if it could bring in a lot of money to help the borough wider interests. i.e money to the council.

[JohnM]

"Wigan Warriors' use of the DW Stadium will not be impacted by Latics entering administration."

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/latics-administration-will-not-impact-wigan-warriors-use-dw-stadium-2900719

[del capo]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

"Wigan Warriors' use of the DW Stadium will not be impacted by Latics entering administration."

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/latics-administration-will-not-impact-wigan-warriors-use-dw-stadium-2900719

And strong rumours that the Chinese guys  are casino operators , very high rolling poker men and that a massive bet  in the Phillippines was placed on Latics getting relegated . Came from the EFL Chairman no less. A 12 point deduction would clearly come in handy ! 

Administrators have launched an enquiry through their lawyers . Andy Burnham and shadow foreign secretary Lisa Nandy , the local MP , have also got involved .Former Latics Chair and Dave Whelans grandson says the stadium is too big for pro soccer in Wigan so given the necessary overheads could be hard to sell anyway.  The training grounds could be the real jewels.

 Other explanations  for  these strange events  may come out ,from the plausible to the ridiculous …. tax write offs or even  money laundering anyone ?

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, del capo said:

And strong rumours that the Chinese guys  are casino operators , very high rolling poker men and that a massive bet  in the Phillippines was placed on Latics getting relegated . Came from the EFL Chairman no less. A 12 point deduction would clearly come in handy ! 

Administrators have launched an enquiry through their lawyers . Andy Burnham and shadow foreign secretary Lisa Nandy , the local MP , have also got involved .Former Latics Chair and Dave Whelans grandson says the stadium is too big for pro soccer in Wigan so given the necessary overheads could be hard to sell anyway.  The training grounds could be the real jewels.

 Other explanations  for  these strange events  may come out ,from the plausible to the ridiculous …. tax write offs or even  money laundering anyone ?

It’s definitely too big for Wigan Athletic and Wigan Rugby. 18,000 capacity would have been better. 

[del capo]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

"Wigan Warriors' use of the DW Stadium will not be impacted by Latics entering administration."

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/latics-administration-will-not-impact-wigan-warriors-use-dw-stadium-2900719

Just a query - Don't know the answer myself - maybe another one for Padge

If the Stadium company as Wigan RL's landlords cannot meet their obligations to actually run the stadium - meeting the bills for hospitality ,stewarding , heating and lighting, field maintenance , the bars  and fast food outlets , even keeping the toilets clean ( the administrators say that £ 6 million is owed to non soccer related creditors ) would and could Wigan RL step in to meet those bills to get games on  ?

The security of tenure to play is one thing - actually getting games on an entirely different matter.  A  number of ventures ended up cancelled at the Reebok when the Wanderers went bust.....

[wiganermike]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It’s definitely too big for Wigan Athletic and Wigan Rugby. 18,000 capacity would have been better. 

It was built when Latics were still IIRC in League One but with their aim of reaching the EPL in mind and them being able to fill it whilst in the EPL (I don't know whether Latics subsequently managed to fill or nearly fill the ground on a regular basis when they were in the EPL). Little consideration was seemingly given to the inability of them to fill it or even get close to doing so when outside the EPL due to their historic low support base (in terms of soccer standards and in relation to the ground capacity) or to whether or not Wigan RL could ever fill it (bar the odd fixture). Either that or those making the decisions about capacity were naive and thought that Latics could either maintain EPL status or maintain circa 25k crowds outside the EPL.

[Padge]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Just a query - Don't know the answer myself - maybe another one for Padge

If the Stadium company as Wigan RL's landlords cannot meet their obligations to actually run the stadium - meeting the bills for hospitality ,stewarding , heating and lighting, field maintenance , the bars  and fast food outlets , even keeping the toilets clean ( the administrators say that £ 6 million is owed to non soccer related creditors ) would and could Wigan RL step in to meet those bills to get games on  ?

The security of tenure to play is one thing - actually getting games on an entirely different matter.  A  number of ventures ended up cancelled at the Reebok when the Wanderers went bust.....

While in administration the administrator will try to keep income streams flowing, hence places like Debenhams who have gone into administration still open their shops. The administrator will be fairly ruthless though about not losing more money. Hence sometimes when a chain goes into admin some bits stay open and some bits are closed.

Putting on a rugby game at the stadium costs a lot less, no policing costs for a start off, fewer stewards and because drinks can be taken to your seat more income for the bars during the game and you get a cut of the gate as rent.

If the rugby at the minimum break even or return a profit whereas the soccer means the stadium makes a loss then the administrator has a difficult decision to make. If he says no soccer as that will lose the stadium more money, he may devalue the whole or part of the package. The previous owners had (apparently) already said that the stadium wasn't viable without the rugby  so from that one presumes the rugby games make a profit.

If Wigan take on the stadium then they have the reverse problem, do you charge a rent that ensures you cover costs when you host a soccer game risking driving the soccer away (to say Leigh Sports Village) or do you run them at a loss and stand that costs, in that case the rugby would be directly subsidising the soccer, whereas at the moment they have been subsidising it indirectly.

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, wiganermike said:

It was built when Latics were still IIRC in League One but with their aim of reaching the EPL in mind and them being able to fill it whilst in the EPL (I don't know whether Latics subsequently managed to fill or nearly fill the ground on a regular basis when they were in the EPL). Little consideration was seemingly given to the inability of them to fill it or even get close to doing so when outside the EPL due to their historic low support base (in terms of soccer standards and in relation to the ground capacity) or to whether or not Wigan RL could ever fill it (bar the odd fixture). Either that or those making the decisions about capacity were naive and thought that Latics could either maintain EPL status or maintain circa 25k crowds outside the EPL.

But as well as football it's available for functions and events.... A relative of mine was married there.  The 'executive suites", plus facilities/events under the stands. 

Other clubs/stadiums are the same.  I've been to corporate/exhibition things at various places...  Wolves Newcastle Villa Glasgow Rangers/Celtic Derby Norwich, one or two more if I could spend a bit more time.

Extra seats are not an issue really.

[Tommygilf]

An informative twitter thread for those interested in those things, takes it all step by step.

[Padge]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

An informative twitter thread for those interested in those things, takes it all step by step.

I read this yesterday and assumptions are made that the rumour is true, I am not saying it isn't, but there is no evidence that it is.

I have filed in my conspiracy theory cabinet for now.

Edit to add.

Probably more to do with gambling on the Hong Kong stock market rather than what division Latics will be in.

[EagleEyePie]

4 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

But as well as football it's available for functions and events.... A relative of mine was married there.  The 'executive suites", plus facilities/events under the stands. 

Other clubs/stadiums are the same.  I've been to corporate/exhibition things at various places...  Wolves Newcastle Villa Glasgow Rangers/Celtic Derby Norwich, one or two more if I could spend a bit more time.

Extra seats are not an issue really.

It's not about the empty seats, it's about the lack of income from seats that weren't anticipated to be empty. If you're building a stadium you're going to need a rough idea of how many fans you think the club playing there is likely to attract and balance that against the running costs.

If you're anticipating crowds of around 16,000 though, and only get 10,000 then that's 6,000 fewer tickets/season tickets and 6,000 people not spending money on food and drink at the grounds, buying programs, betting or taking part in half time draws.

Pretty much all modern stadiums have corporate/exhibition facilities as an extra money maker. There's likely to be a limit on how much they are used, and how much you can charge people to use them though. The local economy will make a difference there, including how many other places in the area can cater for similar functions.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Bolton had similarly massive financial problems. It's not all to do with stadiums, or even mostly to do with stadiums, but the fact that these arenas were built with Premier League football in mind and presumably attendances to match surely hasn't helped now that they are almost always more than half empty on match days.