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Trojan

General British perception of RL in Oz

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3 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

That shows how out of touch you are with the modern game. A wingers primary job is play 2 metres and kick returns. Finishing tries is a standard skill they all have. It’s like saying a half back should be able to pass. 

please provide an example of a winger moving to back row or middle in the last 15 years.

Luke Lewis.

Edited by Allora

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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2 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Australians like rugby, the thing Jonny Wilkinson played.

we have no brand, we have no presence, we are a small time sport in the UK and will forever be perceived as such.

I used to listen to talk sport for my sins and there was once a quiz with a prize of going to the World Cup final. Alan Brazil asked the question ‘what is the most popular sport in Sydney?’ The caller seemed fairly intelligent and said rugby. ‘Which rugby?’ Brazil asked. “Union’ he said, ‘no, the other one’ Brazil said, obviously wanting him to get it. The guy couldn’t think of it even after Brazil prompting him with clues like ‘in football the top division is the Premier...’

thats how well known RL is and it’s presence decreases yearly.

Not quite sure what planet you are on, but it ain`t Planet Earth.

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1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

Not quite sure what planet you are on, but it ain`t Planet Earth.

Tex is not talking about what Australians actually like, he is talking about the perception in the UK of what they like.

And sadly, primarily due to the Wallabies coming here and playing at Twickenham regularly and the Kangaroos being completely unknown, it is very much true.

In the UK, the perception is that Union is more popular than League in Australia. 

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Tex is not talking about what Australians actually like, he is talking about the perception in the UK of what they like.

And sadly, primarily due to the Wallabies coming here and playing at Twickenham regularly and the Kangaroos being completely unknown, it is very much true.

In the UK, the perception is that Union is more popular than League in Australia. 

I thought there was a note of triumphalism in the post which got my goat.

That added to the fact Wilkinson was everything about Union I have disdain for, i.e. very average,  probably explains the vehemence of my response.

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18 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Tex is not talking about what Australians actually like, he is talking about the perception in the UK of what they like.

And sadly, primarily due to the Wallabies coming here and playing at Twickenham regularly and the Kangaroos being completely unknown, it is very much true.

In the UK, the perception is that Union is more popular than League in Australia. 

Its not even more popular, just that Aussie league is totally unknown

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On 02/08/2020 at 19:27, Dunbar said:

So, what's your rating of Ferguson this week Allora? (still no tries for the season by the way)

He was all at sea in defense for the Bulldogs no try in the first half (lucky for him it was chalked off)

Took a stupid decision to go on the blind side close to the line from dummy half and was forced into touch.

Was forced back into his own in goal on a carry and conceded a drop out.

He did run ball 19 times for 149 metres but of course those types of stats don't mean anything do they.

Do you think Parra will stick with for next week or is it time to drop him?

I thought you would be busy at your Job without having time to come back to an old post of mine Dunbar.

Ferguson has never been called by the absolute worst wan*y nickname in the world of sport as TWBW to my knowledge.

He has had a good career and been highly regarded by the fans of the Clubs he has played for.

I know in England there are people called "Statos" that revel in every detail regardless of the outcome of those details or where they are performed on a field or what point in a game.

You seem to have better "Stats" than most it seems because you regurgitate them on cue relating to any player mentioned.

Yards made.

Set Completed.

Tackle Busts

Every player in any team that anyone asks about, game time minutes, (not just your team but a random team playing on the other side of the World) Like Canterbury last week.

Now that is your prerogative, I have other things happening in my life beyond Rugby League and this Forum.

Having a shot at Ferguson bothers me not at all, I know what I think of him and his lack of tries this season.

My opinion of Hall is for me to decide I would have thought.

At the end of the day he was signed to be an International Test  Star at the Roosters not the fourth string Winger that only got some game time as players that were out preforming him got injured.

Anyway stick a fork in it, this one is done. 🙂

A bit like Hall.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Allora

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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3 minutes ago, Allora said:

I thought you would be busy at your Job without having time to come back to an old post of mine Dunbar.

Ferguson has never been called by the absolute worst wan*y nickname in the world of sport as TWBW to my knowledge.

He has had a good career and been highly regarded by the fans of the Clubs he has played for.

I know in England there are people called "Statos" that revel in every detail regardless of the outcome of those details or where they are performed on a field or what point in a game.

You seem to have better "Stats" than most it seems because you regurgitate them on cue relating to any player mentioned.

Yards made.

Set Completed.

Tackle Busts

Every player in any team that anyone asks about, game time minutes, (not just your team but a random team playing on the other side of the World) Like Canterbury last week.

Now that is your prerogative, I have other things happening in my life beyond Rugby League and this Forum.

Having a shot at Ferguson bothers me not at all, I know what I think of him and his lack of tries this season.

My opinion of Hall is for me to decide I would have thought.

At the end of the day he was signed to be an International Test  Star at the Roosters not the fourth string Winger that only got some game time as players that were out preforming him got injured.

Anyway stick a fork in it, this one is done. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

I had a week off last week so plenty of time on my hands.

I was just wondering what you would say when all the same reasons why you say Hall is a failure are then presented to you about Ferguson.

And despite a lot of words, the answer is, of course, nothing.

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6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I had a week off last week so plenty of time on my hands.

I was just wondering what you would say when all the same reasons why you say Hall is a failure are then presented to you about Ferguson.

And despite a lot of words, the answer is, of course, nothing.

It’s all good Dunbar.

”Stats” have there place as do Anoraks and watching Dr Who.

Ferguson does not come with the WBW tag last time I looked and he has done enough for Parramatta since he has been there to make opposing teams wary of what he can do in attack and draw their Defense to him.

Has Mr Hall done this at the Roosters?


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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4 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I thought there was a note of triumphalism in the post which got my goat.

That added to the fact Wilkinson was everything about Union I have disdain for, i.e. very average,  probably explains the vehemence of my response.

There is nothing triumphant about it at all. It annoys the hell out of me, which I thought was pretty obvious. 

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Just now, Allora said:

It’s all good Dunbar.

”Stats” have there place as do Anoraks and watching Dr Who.

Ferguson does not come with the WBW tag last time I looked and he has done enough for Parramatta since he has been there to make opposing teams wary of what he can do in attack and draw their Defense to him.

Has Mr Hall done this at the Roosters?

I like Ferguson and I think he has played well this year in a very good Eels team.

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Just now, Dunbar said:

”Stats” have there place as do Anoraks and watching Dr Who.

Have you not heard, nerds are cool now!

I am sat here typing this in my new Star Trek t shirt. 

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27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I had a week off last week so plenty of time on my hands.

I was just wondering what you would say when all the same reasons why you say Hall is a failure are then presented to you about Ferguson.

And despite a lot of words, the answer is, of course, nothing.

 

16 minutes ago, Allora said:

It’s all good Dunbar.

”Stats” have there place as do Anoraks and watching Dr Who.

Ferguson does not come with the WBW tag last time I looked and he has done enough for Parramatta since he has been there to make opposing teams wary of what he can do in attack and draw their Defense to him.

Has Mr Hall done this at the Roosters?

Is Russell Crowe`s "Book of Feuds" open to new entrants?

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4 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

Is Russell Crowe`s "Book of Feuds" open to new entrants?

It's all in good spirits (I hope).  I have a lot of time for @Allora and his views, we just have an ongoing spat over Ryan Hall and his time at the Roosters.

He did insinuate that I am a geek of course but I take that as a compliment.

Edited by Dunbar

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15 hours ago, DC77 said:

That’s a good call. Remember playing football video games back then (pre FIFA franchise, can’t recall the name of it), but choosing AC Milan as your team was the ultimate. To me that name carries great gravitas, but to younger fans it definitely would not. 

 

Regards the thread topic, I think if you asked the average bloke on the street to name an Aussie sport (if they could name one of course), the first would be Aussie rules. Now this may have changed, but it was certainly the one that would have come to mind when I was growing up. Obviously a cricket fan will say cricket, and a RL fan will say RL, but non devotees of any I’d have thought would still say Aussie rules. It’s as Australian as corked hats. In terms of the profile of RL in Aus among the UK public, it would be very small (much smaller than the profile of English RL, which itself is quite small outside the heartlands). I doubt any non RL devotee could name any player from there, past or present. Think Shane Warne would be the best known Aussie sportsman.

Italian Soccer was characterised as boring, until Channel 4 started showing the games and people were able to judge for themselves.

Sometimes wondered how it would go if a terrestrial broadcaster took a punt and bought the UK rights to NRL. No reason why it couldn`t have the same impact as NFL.

RL called by the likes of Vossy looks and sounds a different game from what most people think of as RL. But would all the associations of RL with the North of England still prevent people seeing clearly?

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15 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Open play disappeared with the Ellas and Campese. 

Professionalism demanded victories and the easiest things that teams can do is to tighten up defences. Union is too hidebound by its traditions to be able to adjust rules and hence the situation deteriorates  as players get fitter and stronger as you mentioned.

The afl is suffering the same problem as well, sometimes it`s easier to stop other sides scoring than to score yourself.

Definitely much easier stopping/destroying than scoring/creating, which is why the top earners in sport more than often are those that do the latter. Ella was before my time, but Campese was an absolute joy to watch.

15 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Would have loved to have seen that. Funny thought though, the idea that they must have all packed a white hankie just in case.🙂

Think I may have got the teams mixed up. I’m almost sure I recall the French RU public waving white hankies in displeasure at their team not playing open, expansive rugby (Barcelona FC fans used to often do it, though it could be both a display of displeasure or pleasure as I remember Ronaldinho scoring an overhead bicycle kick and the white hankies came out).

What the French definitely did do was jeer their own team. This from 2005:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/lets-jeer-boys-2407485

“LET'S get the French crowd whistling and jeering.

Those will be the last words Wales captain Gareth Thomas says to his team before they walk out at the Stade de France for their Six Nations encounter with Les Bleus.

Thomas has already revealed how much the French rugby public admire the way the Welsh team play.

But today he went a step further, by insisting his boys must stir up home frustration by exploding out of the blocks in their third Six Nations encounter of the season.

"I think turning the French crowd against their own team has to be an aim for us," said Thomas knows all about the French rugby psyche, playing as he does for Toulouse.

“When teams go to France their first objective is to provoke the whistles and the jeers," he said.

 

 

This has long since stopped as it would be pointless given the French no longer play expansive rugby, so jeering the now commonplace attritional, limited rugby would achieve nothing. They just accept what they are served up now. It’s sad as I loved watching them play. The Aussies haven’t gone the same route as the French as they wouldn’t tolerate it. As I said I think it’s because Aussies are so used to expansive rugby with RL, whereas all the other RU nations don’t have this contrast to deal with (although RL is also played in Eng and NZ, it isn’t the dominant code like in Aus, so there isn’t that wider public demand for more open RU).

12 hours ago, Copa said:

The only people I’ve ever seen wear a corked hat in Australia are drunk English tourists. 

Lol. Just a stereotype then. What about “shrimp on the Barbie”? haha

Edited by DC77
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7 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Tex is not talking about what Australians actually like, he is talking about the perception in the UK of what they like.

And sadly, primarily due to the Wallabies coming here and playing at Twickenham regularly and the Kangaroos being completely unknown, it is very much true.

In the UK, the perception is that Union is more popular than League in Australia. 

Same story in Canada, despite the fact the West Coast is invaded every winter by thousands of backpacking Aussies, and a whole bunch stay for the next 2 years on temporary work permits, virtually no one has heard of the Kangaroos, but a lot, including Canadians, have heard of the Wallabies. In fact I was having a discussion the other day about sport on TV, I said I was happy because we had 3 NRL games a week and he replied that he had been watching them, then added “the standards so good, you can see why those Wallabies and All Blacks are so good!”. Apart from the fact that he hadn’t a clue that he was talking about a different code, the only rugby names he had ever heard of, apart from England and Wales, were the Wallabies and All Blacks, so touring and international competition sure helps build your brand, staying home for the past God knows how many years, does not.

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5 hours ago, DC77 said:

Lol. Just a stereotype then. What about “shrimp on the Barbie”? haha

We call them prawns. “Shrimp” was used in a tourist marketing campaign for North Americans.

We sometimes cook them on barbecues (in Australia barbecue = US grill) during summer.

Edited by Copa

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8 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Same story in Canada, despite the fact the West Coast is invaded every winter by thousands of backpacking Aussies, and a whole bunch stay for the next 2 years on temporary work permits, virtually no one has heard of the Kangaroos, but a lot, including Canadians, have heard of the Wallabies. In fact I was having a discussion the other day about sport on TV, I said I was happy because we had 3 NRL games a week and he replied that he had been watching them, then added “the standards so good, you can see why those Wallabies and All Blacks are so good!”. Apart from the fact that he hadn’t a clue that he was talking about a different code, the only rugby names he had ever heard of, apart from England and Wales, were the Wallabies and All Blacks, so touring and international competition sure helps build your brand, staying home for the past God knows how many years, does not.

So you mean to say that the other guy who was so impressed with the NRL didn't even understand it's a different game from RU????

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

So you mean to say that the other guy who was so impressed with the NRL didn't even understand it's a different game from RU????

This guy was just a general sports fan, who would have been normally watching the usual diet of daily MLB, with some CFL and MLS, however due to Covid and there being no other live sport at the time he had got into NRL. My comment was not that he couldn’t tell RL from RU but that the small amount of rugby he had heard of meant that as the NRL was from down under then to him the best NRL players must also be Wallabies or All Blacks. He was clueless that there were 2 codes, but because the Kangaroos have zero world wide presence outside Northern England, a bit of the South of France, part of New Zealand and Australia then he went with the names he had heard of because rugby fan or not, the worldwide awareness of some of the top RU international teams is pretty high. We don’t have worldwide awareness of any team in RL because

1. We don’t play enough internationals and

2. Our sports best international team stays at home nearly all of the time and doesn’t do “missionary work”.

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20 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Same story in Canada, despite the fact the West Coast is invaded every winter by thousands of backpacking Aussies, and a whole bunch stay for the next 2 years on temporary work permits, virtually no one has heard of the Kangaroos, but a lot, including Canadians, have heard of the Wallabies. In fact I was having a discussion the other day about sport on TV, I said I was happy because we had 3 NRL games a week and he replied that he had been watching them, then added “the standards so good, you can see why those Wallabies and All Blacks are so good!”. Apart from the fact that he hadn’t a clue that he was talking about a different code, the only rugby names he had ever heard of, apart from England and Wales, were the Wallabies and All Blacks, so touring and international competition sure helps build your brand, staying home for the past God knows how many years, does not.

I agree with everything you say, but everything you say was probably true even when the Kangaroos regularly toured.

The narrative is controlled by those who own the word "Rugby".

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11 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Kangaroos have zero world wide presence outside Northern England, a bit of the South of France, part of New Zealand and Australia

Such is the sporting cultural divide in Australia I reckon NZers have more awareness of who the kangaroos are than Australians. There is no way NZers will confuse the wallabies with the kangaroos but that can happen in parts of Australia.

Edited by Copa
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On 01/07/2020 at 16:38, Trojan said:

I know it's one of my hobby horses, but IMO there's a general effort to deny that RL is one of THE major sports in Oz.   I was watching Eggheads last night.  The topic was sport and the Egghead who was selected was Chris, who is notoriously ignorant where sport is concerned.  But one question was in which of these countries is Rugby League the bigger sport?  UK, Australia, or Samoa.  Immediately, without thinking Chris said "well it's obviously not Australia"    For me this is an example of the British public's ignorance of RL's status in Oz.  Had he been asked in which country was Ice Hockey the bigger sport, UK. Canada or France, I'm sure he'd have got it right.  Even people who are generally not interested in ice hockey (like me) know it's a major sport in Canada. Had the British media given a true picture of Aussie sport I.m sure he'd have got it right.  It's part of the general attitude to deny RL a fair hearing.  Like allowing Union to call their game just "Rugby"   We have a deal with Murdoch, but it's put us in a ghetto I think.

My guess his he isnt clued up on sport in Australia. Aussie Rules, Cricket, NRL and Union are the big 4.

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