New York

[Oldbear]

Just been listening to the podcast, I just don’t know why, but I still find Ricky lacks credibility and unless there are some really talented business people involved, I just don’t see this coming off. I nearly fell off my chair when he mentioned placing a development officer in Newark, I have only been there once, so I’m perhaps not the best judge, but it’s the kind of place where you drive through as quickly as possible, keep the doors and windows locked, and stop for no one!

 

[The 4 of Us]

22 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Just been listening to the podcast, I just don’t know why, but I still find Ricky lacks credibility and unless there are some really talented business people involved, I just don’t see this coming off. I nearly fell off my chair when he mentioned placing a development officer in Newark, I have only been there once, so I’m perhaps not the best judge, but it’s the kind of place where you drive through as quickly as possible, keep the doors and windows locked, and stop for no one!

 

You ain’t seen the development officer. 
 

[The Rocket]

4 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

I don’t believe that finding financial backers will be a major problem for launching a rugby league team in New York. There are other more important factors. Let’s  assume that the money is there. I still cannot imagine that the game will take off in New York if the only North American rivals are Canadian.

New York needs at least one and preferably two USA teams to play against if  the team is to attract fans and players. Boston and Philadelphia are the obvious preferred candidates. But a Chicago team would also.make very big waves in New York. Eventually Toronto, Ottawa, New York, and at least one of Boston, Philadelphia and Chicago would be a good development formula from the point of view of attracting large numbers of fans and paid television coverage in North America . Having all six teams competing would be a guaranteed winning formula for attracting large numbers of fans and paid television coverage . But if that were to happen,  recruiting large numbers of North American players would become an absolute necessity for promotion of more than one North American team to Super League within five years — the obvious end goal of all this expansion — given the lack of availability of sufficient number of trained high quality professional players for the NRL to consider expanding beyond one additional professional team within the next two years even in the socially and economically favorable environment of Australia.

However for those who doubt that new adult players can learn the game from scratch and become very successful professionals without having gone through a teenage amateur apprenticeship, my response is two words: Brian Carney.

If they get to the stage of having six professional teams and decent television coverage I doubt that they will be interested in joining in Super League (that`s not a slur) . Though I dare say they would be interested for their best team to play your best team or the NRL`s best. NFL has not got that international flavour despite always calling their premiers " World Champions ".

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

If they get to the stage of having six professional teams and decent television coverage I doubt that they will be interested in joining in Super League (that`s not a slur) . Though I dare say they would be interested for their best team to play your best team or the NRL`s best. NFL has not got that international flavour despite always calling their premiers " World Champions ".

No they wouldn't be interested in joining SL , but they would be interested in the best players 

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I’m sorry but I’m with Gerrumonside ref on this, it is important to know who are the backers, and more importantly, what their tolerance level is once this franchise makes heavy losses, which it will for many years. Sadly the whole history of North American sport is littered with stories of unsavoury owners thinking they can make a quick buck, or using the team as a tax write off, but once they either see no profit, or their accountant has found another tax saving scheme which he or she likes more, then the plug is pulled. This has happened in far bigger sports than RL and don’t get me started on team relocations, as a Seattle Seahawks fan I remember how the team was 24 hours away from moving to Anaheim, and had it not been for the Allen family, almost certain obscurity. Let’s hope the RFL does it’s due diligence well.

Old Bear ,  how does a bloke from Canada discover Rugby League ?

[The Rocket]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

No they wouldn't be interested in joining SL , but they would be interested in the best players 

That`s what I wrote the other day "stealing our players " , however having said that if League got to the stage of a pro comp in Nth America I am sure that there would be plenty of young athletes trying out for league. Exciting prospect of being able to send our talent scouts to  N.A.       " A rising tide lifts all boats " 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, The Rocket said:

That`s what I wrote the other day "stealing our players " , however having said that if League got to the stage of a pro comp in Nth America I am sure that there would be plenty of young athletes trying out for league. Exciting prospect of being able to send our talent scouts to  N.A.       " A rising tide lifts all boats " 

' trying out ' ? 

[The Rocket]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

' trying out ' ? 

Yeah , if there was professional teams and decent media coverage  , these teams would have recuitment  and just like Val Holmes and Jarryd Hayne blokes would " try out "  for those teams.

[Number 16]

9 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I don`t understand your response. What is " This ! "  referring to ?

I was agreeing with you. 

[ojx]

2 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Just been listening to the podcast, I just don’t know why, but I still find Ricky lacks credibility and unless there are some really talented business people involved, I just don’t see this coming off. I nearly fell off my chair when he mentioned placing a development officer in Newark, I have only been there once, so I’m perhaps not the best judge, but it’s the kind of place where you drive through as quickly as possible, keep the doors and windows locked, and stop for no one!

 

I agree, a few alarm bells went off in that interview. Especially when he said something like, Toronto have rich backers, Ottawa have rich backers, and we are looking for some in that area too.

Staring a company, with lots of promotion, then selling shares,  while constructing the company so there is no personal liability - textbook speculator move.

If he is relying on the majority of players from northern England, and then basing them in New York is going to be a real challenge for them to adapt. Using nearly all American players would mean being in League One for several years, yet he implied that getting into SL ASAP was on the cards.

[Oldbear]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Old Bear ,  how does a bloke from Canada discover Rugby League ?

I’m a Brit who emigrated here 11 years ago, I was not born in a traditional RL heartland and found the game when working down in London, work then took me to Newcastle where I firstly followed Carlisle, then when Gateshead Thunder were formed, for the first time I had a home town team to speak of. Of course the whole Hull Sharks “merger” screwed things up for a season but I followed the reborn Thunder through a variety of financial crises until I left the UK for Vancouver. I spent till 2017 exclusively following the sporting journeys of my two sons, both of whom play university sports on scholarships, then the formation of the Wolfpack got me back into RL again. Now it’s NRL on Sportsnet World, and Super League too, when it returns. I would love to see Thunder back in the top flight again, alongside the Wolfpack. I am pro expansion, but believe it needs to be properly funded and managed with a strategic plan, or it can be harmful from a credibility perspective. If Ricky really does have a consortium with very deep pockets and, most importantly a huge amount of patience then great, bring it on. Sadly the guy does not fill me with confidence and I just don’t know why, maybe it’s because I have memories of when Thunder last achieved promotion, and then the financial backers, for reason unknown, pulled the plug. That was also a mysterious consortium, I think there’s something to be said for knowing who is really in charge, and what they realistically expect from the venture.

[TIWIT]

Wilby is just a salesman. Talks big and hopes to eventually find someone with more money than brains to back him. No credibility whatsoever.

I am afraid that a badly-run failed expansion into the States could set the entire game back here, undoing all the good work accomplished by others.

[The Rocket]

33 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

I’m a Brit who emigrated here 11 years ago, I was not born in a traditional RL heartland and found the game when working down in London, work then took me to Newcastle where I firstly followed Carlisle, then when Gateshead Thunder were formed, for the first time I had a home town team to speak of. Of course the whole Hull Sharks “merger” screwed things up for a season but I followed the reborn Thunder through a variety of financial crises until I left the UK for Vancouver. I spent till 2017 exclusively following the sporting journeys of my two sons, both of whom play university sports on scholarships, then the formation of the Wolfpack got me back into RL again. Now it’s NRL on Sportsnet World, and Super League too, when it returns. I would love to see Thunder back in the top flight again, alongside the Wolfpack. I am pro expansion, but believe it needs to be properly funded and managed with a strategic plan, or it can be harmful from a credibility perspective. If Ricky really does have a consortium with very deep pockets and, most importantly a huge amount of patience then great, bring it on. Sadly the guy does not fill me with confidence and I just don’t know why, maybe it’s because I have memories of when Thunder last achieved promotion, and then the financial backers, for reason unknown, pulled the plug. That was also a mysterious consortium, I think there’s something to be said for knowing who is really in charge, and what they realistically expect from the venture.

Thanks Old Bear , I am an expansionalist as well , but believe it should be incremental , meaning that it should expand on the fringes where the game is already played , I have been following Thunders progress as well as I think it perfectly fits this bill  ,  esp. w/  Newcastle having a large pop. base.  Having said that  if someone  like David  Argyle and  Perez (don`t know his first name )  want to come  in and are prepared to fork out travel and accommodation costs then  yes I am all for it and yes of course are in it for the  long haul. From the bit I`ve  seen at least Argyles heart seems to be in the right place.

[Adelaide Tiger]

12 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Because to be successful in professional sport costs money therefore knowing what backing this New York project has is entirely reasonable?

I want to know whether the people involved are credible or not.

That will set the tone for me.

 

To be successful in starting a business costs you money as well.

I do agree with you that if, and when, the investors are revealed they are credible.

But I understand if those investing wish to remain anonymous at this time.

[Manfred Mann]

7 hours ago, Jayme2020 said:

I just don't see how well they will do if they are based out of New Jersey.

Other New York sports teams play out of New Jersey. It is just across the bridge from Manhattan.

[Manfred Mann]

10 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Donald Trump is blamed for ending a whole league, let alone a franchise!

Donald Trump is blamed for much worse: like the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans because of his downplaying the threat posed by the Corona virus (which he repeated this weekend), because of his delay in introducing measures to stop the Corona virus, and because of his refusal to set a national example by wearing a mask in public. What is the ending of a league compared with that?

[The Rocket]

13 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Spot on. If he has real backers with real money then let them come forward. It lends the whole operation some necessary credibility, which is sorely lacking currently.

So you think that Ricky Wilby is as Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating once said of his  political opponent :

                                                  "   All feathers and no meat   "

 

[EastLondonMike]

Will have a listen to the podcast later, but listening and watching previous interviews and that launch has never filled me with confidence. I wonder if he's spoken to any of the NY RL community yet.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, EastLondonMike said:

Will have a listen to the podcast later, but listening and watching previous interviews and that launch has never filled me with confidence. I wonder if he's spoken to any of the NY RL community yet.

He has. 

[RigbyLuger]

3 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Donald Trump is blamed for much worse: like the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans because of his downplaying the threat posed by the Corona virus (which he repeated this weekend), because of his delay in introducing measures to stop the Corona virus, and because of his refusal to set a national example by wearing a mask in public. What is the ending of a league compared with that?

I was replying in context to the post, not the wider world.

[Harry Stottle]

23 hours ago, Eddie said:

They’re already working with local schools to get the game played there and will have four full time development officers. They also intend to have a number of Americans in the squad right from the off. 

If that is true, then they deserve to do well, they would be really making strides to expand the game, unlike some areas in North America, who are happy to sit back and let others do the hard work. Just saying.

[Tre Cool]

i'm pretty cynical about the NY franchise.  Far too many unknowns.  Seems like a big dreamer type plan to me and I'd be amazed if it's any kind of success. TBH my heart sinks whenever I hear it mentioned.  I've seen too many failed pro expansion clubs and to me this one doesn't fill me with excitement or hope at all.  I'd be happy to focus on Toronto and Ottawa who both had/have a proven leader involved in launching them and proper open, clear, financial plans and long term backing.  My only hope is the RFL have done the due diligence and won't embarrass the sport again but........

[mrfranco]

I can well understand the doubts about this project, much more so than Ottawa or TWP, but we've got to let the RFL officials do their job on that and only have the club approved to join the league when it's got all its ducks in a row. I'm nervous for its chances of succeeding in a tough marketplace, but if they pass the due diligence they should be allowed in and I will wish them well.

Listening to the podcast, it sounds like it will be more of a New Jersey club than a NYC one. Not only will they be playing in NJ, sounds like they will be based there. The 4 development officers will be working there. They will be focusing on trying to engage the local communities in NJ, rather than NYC. It sounds like the plan is: get the kids playing in schools, get the players to visit schools and run training camps, etc. Then get the kids to drag their folks along to an NYC game and try and give them all a game-day experience that makes the whole family want to come back. And target the local communities close to the stadium in NJ for marketing to come to games too. All very positive, and sensible.

The New York name is used because, obviously, it's so much more attractive from a marketing point of view, especially internationally. SO they use the NY name to attract more people to come over and watch a game, and to flog more merchandise - and to attract players too - but it sounds to me like on the ground the club will actually be focusing its efforts more locally in New Jersey. And that's a good thing.

 

[Tre Cool]

Yes a community game focus is nice, and we'd all like to see Toronto do a bit more, but it has very little impact on the success of an elite pro sports club in the short to medium term and is unlikely to translate to paying fans in any great numbers.  It can't be part of the commercial plan for me and if it is that would be a red flag.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Tre Cool said:

Yes a community game focus is nice, and we'd all like to see Toronto do a bit more, but it has very little impact on the success of an elite pro sports club in the short to medium term and is unlikely to translate to paying fans in any great numbers.  It can't be part of the commercial plan for me and if it is that would be a red flag.

Good points. Finance and the commercial side is key and is the lifeblood of any club. 

At the end of the day we don't need to know the names of backers and the ins and outs of the the proposal. The RFL are the only ones that need to know that at this stage as part of the whole due diligence. The RFL did a good job with Toronto and I would expect them to follow the same strategy with New York, with the added benefit of lessons learned from Toronto. The wider public really don't need to know anymore until New York's admittance is proposed by the RFL to its member clubs.