RFL to scrap promotion and relegation

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

If a Castleford & a Salford can do the business, there's no reason a Leigh, a Widnes, a Featherstone or a Halifax could not rise to challenge again. 

Correct 

[DEANO]

35 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

To be brutally honest. Leigh is just a s**t town in Wigan. 

They have a tidy, tight ground with impressive acoustics that makes Leigh a pre-eminent Championship club, but it’s never going to host a Super League powerhouse. 

Leigh should aim to a sustainable, top Championship club that wins trophies instead of a rich man’s toy. Ditto Widnes, Halifax and Featherstone. 

If it was me I’d award the old Championship trophy to the winners. British RL Champions. Let Super League go it’s own way as a more international competition. 

Ditto everyone except Wigan saints and Leeds. How boring is that

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, DEANO said:

Ditto everyone except Wigan saints and Leeds. How boring is that

Wigan is a ' rich man's toy ' , Mr Leneghan tips up every year 

[Liverpool Rover]

4 hours ago, JonM said:

Don't agree. I think the RFL statement takes into account the position of the majority of clubs and is perfectly sensible. As things stand, it looks like it isn't going to be financially possible to run the Championship or League 1, which means no promotion or relegation. If things have changed in the next couple of weeks, before the SL season restarts, then a different decision can be made. Probably nothing will change, but there's no downside to waiting a bit longer IMO. The same applies for the continuing participation of the Championship & League 1 clubs in the Challenge Cup. The RFL statement is accurately reflecting the consensus of its member clubs AFAICT.

If we end up with a reduced Championship/League 1 competition in Autumn/ Winter, then it's probably right to say no promotion to SL if there wouldn't be sufficient time to recruit a squad and/or have a proper off-season for current squad.

 

It is clear that the majority don’t want to continue so why there is all this dithering over ending it is beyond me.

[Man of Kent]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I don't understand your post , we were locked out when we had licencing , everybody was 

A succssessful Leigh is a club attempting to get promoted or being in SL , take away that potential and crowds drop , investment dries up 

 

I’m saying a semi-pro Leigh outside SL can be successful and sustainable. You’re essentially saying no SL/no hope of SL = no Leigh. Or at least no Derek Beaumont. Meh.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m saying a semi-pro Leigh outside SL can be successful and sustainable. You’re essentially saying no SL/no hope of SL = no Leigh. Or at least no Derek Beaumont. Meh.

The LSV was built for SL , it was costed on being in SL , it really doesn't work very well outside SL , clubs were told to find a way to provide SL with top quality facilities , Leigh did that , we were lucky , without owner investment Leigh will decline outside SL , Leigh will not attract investment if locked out of SL , much like any other club , including ALL those currently in SL 

So iYO we may well be a little town in Wigan , but ultimately we are no different to all the towns and indeed cities anywhere else 

[Man of Kent]

5 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Ditto everyone except Wigan saints and Leeds. How boring is that

I would love Leigh and Fev to be able to challenge Leeds & Wigan in Super League but realistically the best they could hope for is 11th place. That’s not my idea of Super League.

[wiganermike]

34 minutes ago, Steve Slater said:

In that case why not defer promotion for the winners until 2022? Future promotions could also be deferred for 12 months over the next few seasons to see whether giving them more time to prepare makes the competition stronger?  

Gubrats makes a good point, if you defer promotion for a year then you need for practical reasons of maintaining division sizes to defer the corresponding relegation too. Having to wait a year after earning promotion before playing in SL could well also see some of the better players leave (or seek to do so) in order to get there sooner thus weakening the squad.

A more elegant solution to the issue of promoted teams being behind the 8 ball in terms of recruitment would be to grant a promoted team 1 year's grace from relegation (so the lowest finisher of the other 11 would be relegated). A relegated team would still have potential to gain promotion at the first attempt but a promoted team would not be at risk of going straight back down.

[tms]

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

It is clear that the majority don’t want to continue so why there is all this dithering over ending it is beyond me.

clearly you've not been taking notice as previously posted from the FEV board taken from today's meeting 

a majority also expressed support for the possibility of a meaningful competition later in the autumn and winter 

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I would love Leigh and Fev to be able to challenge Leeds & Wigan in Super League but realistically the best they could hope for is 11th place. That’s not my idea of Super League.

Somebody has to finish 11th in a league of 12 , quite recently Leeds and Warrington both nearly did that 

So your idea of Super League is CAS , Belle Vue , Salford , Hull KR , London at Ealing , Wakey ? 

So which stadium do you watch your RL at ?

[Big Picture]

12 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not at all, dislike yes because I think if as Manfred wishes for with his TWP, Ottawa, New York and any other city in North America he could blindfoldedly throw a dart into a map will be catastrophic for our sport in this country, jealous no.

How do you know that would be catastrophic for the sport in the UK?  On the contrary, it's probably the one thing which could bring in the sort of money which the game requires to keep pace with other sports and give today's boys and young men a reason to watch it and want to play it.

[Liverpool Rover]

13 minutes ago, POR said:

clearly you've not been taking notice as previously posted from the FEV board taken from today's meeting 

a majority also expressed support for the possibility of a meaningful competition later in the autumn and winter 

If clubs wanted to carry on with the Championship they would specifically say so. "A meaningful competition" possibly means some sort of competition to to make up for Championship not happening.

[Smudger06]

Big 3 Dominance (Wigan, Saints, Leeds) 

But they need 9 other teams!!! 

There's not 9 teams of the calibre of your Warrington's & Hull FCs. 

You cannot include Clubs like Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Salford & Wakefield in a Closed Shop elite whilst at the same time denying the likes of Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh & Widnes.

That is Rugby League's great dilemma.

Until you get 9 true super clubs, not just those making up the numbers, i.e undisputed powerhouses with proven financial muscle far above the others, you can't really include some and not others in a Franchise/ licence system, therefore p&r must be maintained. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Rover said:

If clubs wanted to carry on with the Championship they would specifically say so. "A meaningful competition" possibly means some sort of competition to to make up for Championship not happening.

No point , you either run with THE Championship as it was until finish or just not bother , personally I don't see any Championship or League 1 teams playing again this year , bar starting the 21 season on boxing Day 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Smudger06 said:

Big 3 Dominance (Wigan, Saints, Leeds) 

But they need 9 other teams!!! 

There's not 9 teams of the calibre of your Warrington's & Hull FCs. 

You cannot include Clubs like Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Salford & Wakefield in a Closed Shop elite whilst at the same time denying the likes of Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh & Widnes.

That is Rugby League's great dilemma.

Until you get 9 true super clubs, not just those making up the numbers, i.e undisputed powerhouses with proven financial muscle far above the others, you can't really include some and not others in a Franchise/ licence system, therefore p&r must be maintained. 

That's the one 

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

Does Super League know which way it wants to turn? 

That's not to rock the boat or be a dig - a genuine question. 

A question for the great man himself, Mr Elstone.

[Liverpool Rover]

6 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Big 3 Dominance (Wigan, Saints, Leeds) 

But they need 9 other teams!!! 

There's not 9 teams of the calibre of your Warrington's & Hull FCs. 

You cannot include Clubs like Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Salford & Wakefield in a Closed Shop elite whilst at the same time denying the likes of Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh & Widnes.

That is Rugby League's great dilemma.

Until you get 9 true super clubs, not just those making up the numbers, i.e undisputed powerhouses with proven financial muscle far above the others, you can't really include some and not others in a Franchise/ licence system, therefore p&r must be maintained. 

I would say that not having enough true super clubs is an argument for licensing/franchising. There never will be enough true super clubs if clubs such as those you mentioned are consistently in relegation battles and swapping divisions every year. 

[GUBRATS]

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I would say that not having enough true super clubs is an argument for licensing/franchising. There never will be enough true super clubs if clubs such as those you mentioned are consistently in relegation battles and swapping divisions every year. 

Like HKR you mean ? , Once in 13 years ?

[Smudger06]

They'll close the shop when the fresh financial package arrives and, true to form, will open back up again when the cash is all but spent up. 

[Oldbear]

3 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

Big 3 Dominance (Wigan, Saints, Leeds) 

But they need 9 other teams!!! 

There's not 9 teams of the calibre of your Warrington's & Hull FCs. 

You cannot include Clubs like Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Salford & Wakefield in a Closed Shop elite whilst at the same time denying the likes of Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh & Widnes.

That is Rugby League's great dilemma.

Until you get 9 true super clubs, not just those making up the numbers, i.e undisputed powerhouses with proven financial muscle far above the others, you can't really include some and not others in a Franchise/ licence system, therefore p&r must be maintained. 

That was my concern, if we were to go back to licensing, and had proper, measurable criteria, we would probably find 6 clubs at best pass (Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Hull, Warrington, Catalans), then you have Huddersfield with their backer, junior development and stadium, Toronto with a backer, the international flavour but not much else, Hull KR with a backer then a whole bunch of teams who honestly are no better than each other (Wakefield, Cas, Salford, Leigh, Fev, Widnes, Halifax, Toulouse, Donny, Newcastle- and yes I know this last 2 are in League 1 but if you are truly licensing you can hardly deny them applying, plus Ottawa on the way).

Therefore we either a/ go with a 9 team league to be truly fair, b/ go with SL 1 & 2 with 20 clubs, 10 in each division (Bradford is club 20) or c/ do the usual fudge and protect the incumbents and ###### off the rest of the league. Guess which option is most likely to happen?

[Oldbear]

4 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

If a Castleford & a Salford can do the business, there's no reason a Leigh, a Widnes, a Featherstone or a Halifax could not rise to challenge again. 

If we did have proper, measurable criteria for licensing, there is a good chance that Leigh and Fev would outscore Cas, Wakey and Salford, then what would happen?

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

If we did have proper, measurable criteria for licensing, there is a good chance that Leigh and Fev would outscore Cas, Wakey and Salford, then what would happen?

Change the criteria of course.

[HarrogateKnights]

Realistically for franchising you have to be able to maintain full time status without a risk of going bust. The current 12 Super League teams should be able to manage that. When you look at the Championship: Leigh, Toulouse and London can manage that. Widnes should be able to if they decided to with the crowds they can attract. Bradford if at Odsal and managed at the board level correctly would be another one. But that is it, all other squads in the Championship and League 1 are either part time currently or professional in their looking due to Dual Reg. 

The balance is hard as you either forget about heritage when it comes to franchises which has been discussed at length before and end up with random merger clubs or you lose the appeal of the bigger investors as you don't have a Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham in your league system. 

Then looking at facilities After Toulouse the biggest stadium by capacity is the Shay at Halifax although Widnes and Leigh are not far behind and being newer and all seater. With the next one in the Championship being York's Community Stadium which will be brand new although very much short of 12000 at Leigh. To get investors in a franchise comp they will be looking at facilities and image, we could be closed shop but shouldn't be from next season in my opinion 

 

 

[Wanderer]

regarding facilities, just a correction HK, as far as I find out capacities are:

Widnes 13,350 (https://dcbltd.com/dcbl-stadium/

Leigh 12,000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Sports_Village

Halifax 10,401 (https://www.footballgroundguide.com/leagues/conference/conference-premier/the-shay-halifax-town.html

[Hela Wigmen]

It’s interesting that certain lower league fans here are so dead set against a closed shop Super League but are advocating two tens. There’s thirty-seven clubs in the UK league system, what about the other seventeen? Or is it self-interest reining supreme, again?